Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Awakening]

I've been looking for Sr Constable Rowley and the warm cup of tea but so far this is all I can find with no mention of Rowley.

"In his opening address, Mr Craddock, told the court William had disappeared while the foster mother and Nanna were drinking tea that was still warm or “not too cold to drink”.

He remarked there were different ways of making or pouring tea and asked the foster mother what was hers or her mother’s preferred way."

I find it curious that this tea making was discussed at the inquest so maybe there is some relevance?

Inside the divided inquest into the three-year-old’s disappearance

 

[iiiii's]

A timeline from MSM article dated 5 August 2019.

Source: William Tyrrell’s doomed life


TIMELINE TO TRAGEDY


14 September: Hundreds continue the search in rugged terrain. Foster mother gives first statement to police.

18 September: Foster mother picks up relative from Port Macquarie airport and suddenly remembers three strange cars being in Benaroon Drive before William’s disappearance.

Gives second police statement, at Port Macquarie, and says while searching for William on September 12 she heard a quick, sharp high-pitched scream from the reeds and a grassy knoll.

The sound was “like ... when a child hurts themselves” although “maybe it was a bird”

17.3.2015: Foster mother gives third statement to police, with detailed descriptions of two cars, white and dark grey, she saw in the street on the day.

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.

RSBM. Some points I found interesting. 18/9/14 - It looks like a reasonable thing to not only go to PM to pick up sister but to also give a statement to police while there. To my mind, this would explain a lot as to her suddenly remembering the cars as she had been going over the information again that day (and I'm sure every minute since he disappeared) Probably being asked further questions to ponder by police, could have easily triggered a memory.

20/12/2015, Does anyone on here remember a reference to this comment? If FD was on the deck with FGM and FFC when WT went missing, why might she have seen his abductor. From very early articles in the piece, I found Candace Sutton's reporting to often be sloppy and inaccurate and sometimes just plain wrong. However, many statements it seems were taken initially and details have changed over time. It would be great to be able to see the 1st statements to see what details were initially remembered. IMO[/QUOTE]

 

[SLouTh]

RSBM. Some points I found interesting. 18/9/14 - It looks like a reasonable thing to not only go to PM to pick up sister but to also give a statement to police while there. To my mind, this would explain a lot as to her suddenly remembering the cars as she had been going over the information again that day (and I'm sure every minute since he disappeared) Probably being asked further questions to ponder by police, could have easily triggered a memory.

20/12/2015, Does anyone on here remember a reference to this comment? If FD was on the deck with FGM and FFC when WT went missing, why might she have seen his abductor. From very early articles in the piece, I found Candace Sutton's reporting to often be sloppy and inaccurate and sometimes just plain wrong. However, many statements it seems were taken initially and details have changed over time. It would be great to be able to see the 1st statements to see what details were initially remembered. IMO

The Foster Parents released a Christmas Poem for William on the 20/12/2015 .... Did they give an interview at that time perhaps???
BBM above

William Tyrrell: Missing boy's parents release Christmas poem to son - ABC News

 

[Warshawski]

Neither AMS nor LH were asked specifically about FFC grabbing her Mum's car and neither mentioned it in their evidence of when they interacted with her, of her going to get the car and leaving the street to look for WT.

thanks iiiii.
Personally I find it really strange that these ladies, neighbours, pretty much the first ‘responders’ to FFFC in her panicked state as she searched for a missing 3yr old & supporting her then in that search & one when she made the 000 call - would not be asked about ‘that drive’ - even if only to check if they knew it occurred .

I admit, I know diddly-squat about inquests. However it’s my understanding that ( in Australia anyway) Coroners are responsible for investigating and determining the cause of death in cases put forward to them. But it’s not their responsibility to find those responsible for said death.

(I imagine it’s something like: ok, it’s determined he was abducted / murdered /accidental death & cover-up / lost / whatever .... & the Police then have to take all the evidence that substantiated that finding & locate the perpetrator) .. advice please ? As this seems back to Square One!

However the inference IMO is that little William was deceased at commencement of the Inquest. So why would not every little thing be examined - were some things ‘taken for granted’ or already proven ? We’re some things deliberately held back ? Is it possible that some may have given public testimony/ evidence but at the same time, appeared behind closed doors ?
Who is allowed to hear what delivered in those ‘closed’ sessions ?

 

[katydid23]

RSBM. Some points I found interesting. 18/9/14 - It looks like a reasonable thing to not only go to PM to pick up sister but to also give a statement to police while there. To my mind, this would explain a lot as to her suddenly remembering the cars as she had been going over the information again that day (and I'm sure every minute since he disappeared) Probably being asked further questions to ponder by police, could have easily triggered a memory.

20/12/2015, Does anyone on here remember a reference to this comment? If FD was on the deck with FGM and FFC when WT went missing, why might she have seen his abductor. From very early articles in the piece, I found Candace Sutton's reporting to often be sloppy and inaccurate and sometimes just plain wrong. However, many statements it seems were taken initially and details have changed over time. It would be great to be able to see the 1st statements to see what details were initially remembered. IMO

I found the comment interesting:

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.


This ^^^comment says that the Foster Mother said that William's sister 'may have been the only witness to the abduction.'

I find that an odd thing to say if she was actually the perpetrator herself. Why point to the only person who might have witnessed the crime, and ask people to focus on her, if you are the guilty party?

One of the reasons I don't think FM harmed the child herself that morning is because her Foster Daughter would have seen some incriminating things because girls that age are very observant and aware of what is going on around them.

IMO, If her brother had fallen to his death from the balcony, LT would have known. How could FM cover up a sudden catastrophe like that from an observant child who would have been as shocked as she was?

 

[Warshawski]

William Tyrrell's birth father lashes foster carers in police statement to coronial inquest | Daily Mail Online

Thanks for this link SLouTh, it answers the question I asked previously ( but in my usual style, way behind!) re Bio-Dad eating hot cakes all night & day!

I do find it disappointing that we can’t rely on accurate reporting, however I agree, individual interpretation comes into play for everything that’s said & written ( heard / read) .

 

[SLouTh]

20/12/2015, Does anyone on here remember a reference to this comment? If FD was on the deck with FGM and FFC when WT went missing, why might she have seen his abductor.

I am wondering if this post on William's Official Facebook may have been relevant in what you are searching for???

(20+) Where's William Tyrrell? Bring Him Home - Official | Facebook

Where's William Tyrrell? Bring Him Home - Official
December 20, 2015

But sadly, the article by the DT regarding the Christmas Poem has disappeared from the page ....

All IMO
https://www.facebook.com/page/1634180540151553/search/?q=December 2015

 

[bearbear]

dbm

 

[Rumination1]

In regards to 4wd leaving Benaroon, it might have been HS. I don't know what she was driving. It would be interesting to know who reported this car. The other car speeding through Kendall could well be the vehicle RC has reported witnessing. The green or grey sedan, turning in the cul-de-sac is I believe the teal car. How grey/green becomes teal, I don't know. And then we have the mystery white station wagon and the grey sedan, parked together on Benaroon drive. I think that is 5 cars. Although not reported til later, I have wondered if the teal car FFC saw, was also the irridescent blue car that RC saw that followed behind the 4w drive.

The white station wagon and the grey car bug me no end. No one confirms the station wagon on Benaroon dr. on the 12/9/14 besides the FFC, who is not a local. PS says it has been parked on previous days, AMS was definite she did not see it the day WT went missing. It was parked on the border of her property. Neither AMS nor PS were pressed at the inquest nor gave further information about who they thought the car belonged to. Both the white station wagon and the grey car , were publicised almost a year after WT's disappearance and neatly tied in with publically named POIs not long after they were made public, TJ and PB. Nothing seemed to come of that. A WB member reported on here that there was a white station wagon sitting in the same spot as reported when she visited Kendall and a similar vehicle was captured in a real estate campaign., a couple of years after the disappearance. I think police know who the white station wagon belongs to and have used that information for strategic reasons for their investigation. Doesn't mean they know who belongs to the grey sedan parked in front of it.

If someone was a smart criminal, they could look for a car to park close to, to look as if they belonged together. I don't know what to make of the sightings of the cars by the FFC on the day WT went missing, I'm in 2 minds. Did she see the 1st 2 cars or did someone in the intervening days before returning from the airport tell her about 2 cars they saw and it may have created a false memory for her. Did she see a grey/green car turn in the cul-de-sac with dark tinted windows , give it a fleeting glance and not see the driver, only to remember the actual colour, make and the description of the driver which resembles DP, or was she told this information about a POI and then altered her memory, unconsciously, accordingly? I would have been interested to see her reaction to DP's testimony at the inquest. All MOO.

What are the acronyms WB and DP please ?

 

[iiiii's]

What are the acronyms WB and DP please ?

WB - Websleuths member, DP - Danny Parish

 

[Couldbe]

I found the comment interesting:

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.


This ^^^comment says that the Foster Mother said that William's sister 'may have been the only witness to the abduction.'

I find that an odd thing to say if she was actually the perpetrator herself. Why point to the only person who might have witnessed the crime, and ask people to focus on her, if you are the guilty party?

One of the reasons I don't think FM harmed the child herself that morning is because her Foster Daughter would have seen some incriminating things because girls that age are very observant and aware of what is going on around them.

IMO, If her brother had fallen to his death from the balcony, LT would have known. How could FM cover up a sudden catastrophe like that from an observant child who would have been as shocked as she was?

Katy, in response to your explanation I am proposing this alternative explanation:

With regard to: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.
JMO -
FFC has said that, but if William’s sister did see him being taken away by an abductor, wouldn’t she, at 5 years of age, being capable of relaying that information to FFC, FGM and also to Senior Constable Wendy Hudson who questioned her on the day of William’s disappearance?


With regard to LE’s theory of a possible balcony fall……..inherent in this theory would be the doubting of FFC’s statement that William was last seen by her when he ran around the right-hand side of the house from the back deck where she and FGM were sitting drinking their cups of tea.



If that information of the last time FFC had seen William proved to be untrue, then it is also possible that some of the other activities with her playing with William were also incorrectly related by FFC…….as could also the timing of events after MFC had left on his errands (as there has been a query on the time that the last photo of William was taken).



Of course, this could also put in doubt the accuracy of FGM’s statement….of course, this would not have been originally contradicting FFC’s statement of events. So, if FGM and FFC had colluded to withhold information about William falling from the balcony, then it is possible that an explanation exists for why William’s sister was unaware, or unsure, of the fall.



As FFC has said: “she knows a “bad person took William”…… maybe that is because that was told to her by FFC and FGM.

All MOO

 

[Warshawski]

I found the comment interesting:

20.12.2015: Foster Mother says William’s sister may have been the only witness to abduction and that she knows a “bad person took William”.

This ^^^comment says that the Foster Mother said that William's sister 'may have been the only witness to the abduction.'

I find that an odd thing to say if she was actually the perpetrator herself. Why point to the only person who might have witnessed the crime, and ask people to focus on her, if you are the guilty party?

One of the reasons I don't think FM harmed the child herself that morning is because her Foster Daughter would have seen some incriminating things because girls that age are very observant and aware of what is going on around them.

IMO, If her brother had fallen to his death from the balcony, LT would have known. How could FM cover up a sudden catastrophe like that from an observant child who would have been as shocked as she was?

Hi Katy, it a very tragic & confusing situation for sure. I hope the police have more definite things to go on than we do

I wish I knew what happened to William & who is responsible for his disappearance - because I do think ‘someone is’. I don’t believe he just wandered off somewhere.

However I’m not yet convinced on the guilty of any particular party, from what I’m privy to so far.

Having said that, I’m surprised by FFFC suggestion that LT was the possible one to witness - why would she say that ?
Was perhaps L the only one on the rear deck at that time ?
irrespective, I don’t subscribe to the fact that LT would’ve said anything too pertinent back then - she was 4 years young & that can mean ‘malleable’ - particularly in those circumstances; she was supposedly doing her drawings & stuff in her own world ( some reports said she didn’t want to play with William, others said they were playing Hidey ); we don’t specifically know where she was when William disappeared; how would she know unless he was in her direct line of sight when ‘IT’ happened

imo

 

[Megnut]

While FCG was driving Fgrma's car, where did Fgrma and FD think FCG was?

Inside making tea?

How many times did she make tea that morning?

JMO

 

[Raina_the_observer]

On September 12, Senior Constable Christopher Rowley arrived at the property of William's foster grandmother at 11.06am - 10 minutes after the toddler's foster mother frantically called police to report him missing.
Counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock SC, asked: "(You) canvassed local businesses to see if anyone expressed any interest in Benaroon Drive, and I think you identified at a cafe a person who could recall someone asking for directions?"
"Yes," the officer replied.
Sen Const Rowley searched the family property when he got to the scene and asked another officer to do the same when he arrived.

............................
I don't know that I have ever seen a link that said Rowley checked the tea, Rowley checked the bonnet.

In fact, I think a link (about the bonnet) was asked for a while back. But it never came. IIRC imo

There may not have been any/very little heat on the bonnet to detect. After such a short trip, the engine may not have even warmed up.

 

[Raina_the_observer]

On September 12, Senior Constable Christopher Rowley arrived at the property of William's foster grandmother at 11.06am - 10 minutes after the toddler's foster mother frantically called police to report him missing.
Counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock SC, asked: "(You) canvassed local businesses to see if anyone expressed any interest in Benaroon Drive, and I think you identified at a cafe a person who could recall someone asking for directions?"
"Yes," the officer replied.
Sen Const Rowley searched the family property when he got to the scene and asked another officer to do the same when he arrived.

......
I don't know that I have ever seen a link that said Rowley checked the tea, Rowley checked the bonnet.

In fact, I think a link (about the bonnet) was asked for a while back. But it never came. IIRC imo

Has anyone ever seen what happened re the report of someone asking for directions to Benaroon Drive that morning? Seems so suspicious and too co-incidental. Specially as later it seemed no-one other than FFC ever saw a strange vehicle in the street that morning.

 

[SouthAussie]

Has anyone ever seen what happened re the report of someone asking for directions to Benaroon Drive that morning? Seems so suspicious and too co-incidental. Specially as later it seemed no-one other than FFC ever saw a strange vehicle in the street that morning.

BBM

The Crabbs (both of them) heard a vehicle though ... between 10 and 10:15 IIRC.
Sounded like postie, but it was revealed (at the inquest?) that postie went to Benaroon Drive earlier than that, on that day.

 

[Raina_the_observer]

BBM

The Crabbs (both of them) heard a vehicle though ... between 10 and 10:15 IIRC.
Sounded like postie, but it was revealed (at the inquest?) that postie went to Benaroon Drive earlier than that, on that day.

Interesting...

 

[centred]

BBM

The Crabbs (both of them) heard a vehicle though ... between 10 and 10:15 IIRC.
Sounded like postie, but it was revealed (at the inquest?) that postie went to Benaroon Drive earlier than that, on that day.

Is it possible it was the the trip the FFC took to look for William and that was the car they heard ? I have been looking for the interview with both Foster Carers re FFC correcting the MFC on a time line because i cannot remember exactly what she was correcting him about but it was a 15 minute difference and they were sitting together on a couch ??

I am looking after vulnerable people so i apologise if i do not reply straight away to anyone who can help . Thanks in advance

 

[SouthAussie]

Is it possible it was the the trip the FFC took to look for William and that was the car they heard ? I have been looking for the interview with both Foster Carers re FFC correcting the MFC on a time line because i cannot remember exactly what she was correcting him about but it was a 15 minute difference and they were sitting together on a couch ??

I am looking after vulnerable people so i apologise if i do not reply straight away to anyone who can help . Thanks in advance

I don't think so.

FGM owned a dark grey Mazda (sedan), I believe.

And I think it was determined that postie drove a 4WD (IIRC).

"Sounded like postie" can mean a few things, but the main one is likely that the vehicle sounded the same as postie's vehicle.
Also, did the vehicle stop and restart, in the same manner as postie vehicles do?

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

imo

 

[iiiii's]

Is it possible it was the the trip the FFC took to look for William and that was the car they heard ? I have been looking for the interview with both Foster Carers re FFC correcting the MFC on a time line because i cannot remember exactly what she was correcting him about but it was a 15 minute difference and they were sitting together on a couch ??

I am looking after vulnerable people so i apologise if i do not reply straight away to anyone who can help . Thanks in advance

It's in this interview