Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[SouthAussie]

The question is whether those two mentions of a car turning around up there are independent, or did the Crabbs hear about FFC's sighting and then remember what they heard, or did FFC hear about the car the Crabbs heard and then report the car she and L saw? (And did L tell police about that car, and if so when?)

It could be that Mr Crabb heard the same car that FM and the kids saw ... his report was hearing a vehicle at around 9:40-9:45am.

Mrs Crabb could have heard a different vehicle (or the same vehicle returning) ... her report was hearing a vehicle at around 10:10-10:15am, ½ an hour later.

Mr Crabb's evidence aligns more with the bike riding (and the unknown vehicle turning around).
Mrs Crabb's does not.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

 

[JLZ]

It could be that Mr Crabb heard the same car that FM and the kids saw ... his report was hearing a vehicle at around 9:40-9:45am.

Mrs Crabb could have heard a different vehicle (or the same vehicle returning) ... her report was hearing a vehicle at around 10:10-10:15am, ½ an hour later.

Mr Crabb's evidence aligns more with the bike riding (and the unknown vehicle turning around).
Mrs Crabb's does not.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

It hadn't occurred to me that the Crabbs might each be referring to a different incident. Did they say something to each other when they heard it, something like "That sounds like the postie now"? But they still might be drawing on a memory of the wrong day--a day when it actually was the postie.

Also somebody threw in a while back that perhaps what the Crabbs heard was FFC in FGM's car, which might work if the time was towards the 10:15 end of the range.

 

[Wexford]

Yes, I don't think NSWPOL can count on Jubes to do much for their case. He doesn't owe them anything.

He wasn't in favour of the media coverage of BS' arrest. Was angry about the leak.

I guess it is going to be up to the judge to decide if the laws say that BS' arrest and charges were done maliciously, or if they were done because of the tip and in the due course of justice renewed.

I wonder too if they will interview Hans Rupp as he was the DI in charge of the case initially and the spotlight was cast on BS well before GJ inherited the case. Perhaps GJ is just more high profile but I seem to remember he did not approve of the way BS had been treated or the publicity. He's an easy target after all that has happened but was he the cause?

 

[Karin1974]

I have a bug bear about this & I find it slightly disturbing that lots of cars were ‘heard’ that day but none were actually seen by anyone other than FFC. Even more disturbing is that no one saw the FFC take her Mother’s car & go for a drive. Considering all the comings & goings in the street that morning (PS’s wife goes to bingo, MFC leaves for a Skype meeting, FFC takes Mother’s car for a drive & returns, MFC returns home after Skype meeting just to name a few) & no one observed any of these happening, it’s almost as if the neighbours are a bit clueless about their own street. The theory that this was an opportunistic abduction actually makes sense because no one seems to have taken much notice & I think a car could easily have gone down the street, picked W up, done a U turn & taken off all without being seen. (Heard maybe, but definitely not seen.)

 

[JLZ]

Neighbour Anne-Maree Shipley was “adamant” there were no white or grey cars in the street that morning, as sighted by the foster mother between 7am and 7.30am, and possibly until just before 9am.

“Anne-Maree Shipley was very convinced the cars were not there that morning,” Detective Beacroft said. William Tyrrell inquest: Ronald Chapman saw child in Spider-Man suit | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

If you could not recall seeing a car on your street - what would make you "adamant" or "convinced"??

If someone mentions seeing a car in my street - I personally could not say I was adamant not seeing it - unless I was someone who usually took note of these things (being hyper vigilant - e.g- so as not to hit maybe a small child playing in street if you know that children regularly play on the street). If I take my dog for a walk and it stops and sniffs each car.

I'm just saying if someone in the street said they saw a car and I didn't then I am not sure I could say with any certainty it wasn't there unless I had for a particular reason been overly observant.

One of the cars was described as being in front of her own property, and she drove out while the car was supposed to be there. I don't think it's extraordinary that she felt certain they weren't. I probably wouldn't have noticed and I also know I'm remarkably unobservant about that sort of thing. Perhaps she's an observant person and has learnt she can trust herself.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Neighbour Anne-Maree Shipley was “adamant” there were no white or grey cars in the street that morning, as sighted by the foster mother between 7am and 7.30am, and possibly until just before 9am.

“Anne-Maree Shipley was very convinced the cars were not there that morning,” Detective Beacroft said. William Tyrrell inquest: Ronald Chapman saw child in Spider-Man suit | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

If you could not recall seeing a car on your street - what would make you "adamant" or "convinced"??

If someone mentions seeing a car in my street - I personally could not say I was adamant not seeing it - unless I was someone who usually took note of these things (being hyper vigilant - e.g- so as not to hit maybe a small child playing in street if you know that children regularly play on the street). If I take my dog for a walk and it stops and sniffs each car.

I'm just saying if someone in the street said they saw a car and I didn't then I am not sure I could say with any certainty it wasn't there unless I had for a particular reason been overly observant.

I used to live in a court and knew exactly who's cars were who's. If I was coming or going I would definitely know if an unusual car was in the court

 

[nightrider17]

Okay - so 2 cars parked for a long period of time - not seen by anyone else but FFC.

Other cars heard - driving in and u-turning out - but not seen.

So it seems possible a car came in and abducted child - no one sees. I think it's shown that may be possible.

So that leans towards random abduction - Could one of the Neighbours - who went to bingo, the tennis club, school pickup - have mentioned that the grandchildren of the FFGM where staying in the street - could it have come up innocently in a conversation - that sparked the interest of a person who went to check out the street.

 

[JLZ]

Okay - so 2 cars parked for a long period of time - not seen by anyone else but FFC.

Other cars heard - driving in and u-turning out - but not seen.

So it seems possible a car came in and abducted child - no one sees. I think it's shown that may be possible.

So that leans towards random abduction - Could one of the Neighbours - who went to bingo, the tennis club, school pickup - have mentioned that the grandchildren of the FFGM where staying in the street - could it have come up innocently in a conversation - that sparked the interest of a person who went to check out the street.

Or, someone came to visit a neighbour, found the person out, came and went away unseen. At a time when lawn-mower-man wasn't on guard.

 

[JBowie]

I wonder too if they will interview Hans Rupp as he was the DI in charge of the case initially and the spotlight was cast on BS well before GJ inherited the case. Perhaps GJ is just more high profile but I seem to remember he did not approve of the way BS had been treated or the publicity. He's an easy target after all that has happened but was he the cause?

Re Rupp, from Jubelin's book I Catch Killers (pp 247 and 248):

“For days now, I’ve been telling Hans [Rupp], ‘Please don’t do this.’ It’s too public. He’s been looking at Bill, a local white goods repairman, who visited [FGM’s] house in Kendall a few days before William’s disappearance, to look at her washing machine.”

“Hans is interested in this because, five days after William disappeared, a tip-off to Crime Stoppers revealed Bill was the subject of lurid child sex allegations decades ago, although he’d not been charged.”

“So Hans wants to search Bill’s home and business.”

“I say that if we go in we need to do so covertly putting listening devices in place first to listen to Bill and his wife Margaret’s private conversations.

“But Hans is not persuaded, and he is still running this show. I need to get the search stopped. With [Homicide Commander] Mick Willing on leave I go to Jason the acting commander, and, when he won’t call off the raids, ask him to call Mick at home and put the boss on the speakerphone.”

“Mick, stop this I say. I don’t want these raids to happen.”

Mick does not agree with me. ‘Mate it’s not your problem at the moment. You worry about it when you take over’.”

 

[iiiii's]

Re Rupp, from Jubelin's book I Catch Killers (pp 247 and 248):

“For days now, I’ve been telling Hans [Rupp], ‘Please don’t do this.’ It’s too public. He’s been looking at Bill, a local white goods repairman, who visited [FGM’s] house in Kendall a few days before William’s disappearance, to look at her washing machine.”

“Hans is interested in this because, five days after William disappeared, a tip-off to Crime Stoppers revealed Bill was the subject of lurid child sex allegations decades ago, although he’d not been charged.”

“So Hans wants to search Bill’s home and business.”

“I say that if we go in we need to do so covertly putting listening devices in place first to listen to Bill and his wife Margaret’s private conversations.

“But Hans is not persuaded, and he is still running this show. I need to get the search stopped. With [Homicide Commander] Mick Willing on leave I go to Jason the acting commander, and, when he won’t call off the raids, ask him to call Mick at home and put the boss on the speakerphone.”

“Mick, stop this I say. I don’t want these raids to happen.”

Mick does not agree with me. ‘Mate it’s not your problem at the moment. You worry about it when you take over’.”

I truly do not believe this, especially with the way GJ brought the historical charges against BS, with all the media watching, the same style as HR? In his book, does GJ talk about addressing his team's leak if he didn't invite the media to BS arrest? With the summing up by the judge at his sentencing, Dan Box's summary of info GJ left out about Bowraville and my own observations about how he conducts himself, I do not find GJ to be credible. MOO

 

[JBowie]

I truly do not believe this, especially with the way GJ brought the historical charges against BS, with all the media watching, the same style as HR? In his book, does GJ talk about addressing his team's leak if he didn't invite the media to BS arrest?

In post #767 I quoted from his book in relation to the very public arrest of BS for alleged child sex offences.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69

With the summing up by the judge at his sentencing, Dan Box's summary of info GJ left out about Bowraville and my own observations about how he conducts himself, I do not find GJ to be credible. MOO

In relation to the quotes I gave, I think he'd be quite stupid to falsify stuff that was witnessed by both Rupp and Willing and could be denied by either or both of them. AFAIK, no such denials were made.

I'm not a fanboy of Jubelin -- I could not work with someone with such a large ego -- however, I'm willing to accept his versions of events where there are corroborating witnesses.

 

[iiiii's]

In post #767 I quoted from his book in relation to the very public arrest of BS for alleged child sex offences.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #69



In relation to the quotes I gave, I think he'd be quite stupid to falsify stuff that was witnessed by both Rupp and Willing and could be denied by either or both of them. AFAIK, no such denials were made.

I'm not a fanboy of Jubelin -- I could not work with someone with such a large ego -- however, I'm willing to accept his versions of events where there are corroborating witnesses.

I don't have the book, but from your extract it seemed to be referring to when BS home and business were raided, not the historical charges. Those allegations are referred to as to why HR is interested in BS so early in the piece. How is there a trial about this issue being held right now with GJ's decisions under scrutiny by the plaintiff, if there was nothing to present at a hearing?

 

[JBowie]

I don't have the book, but from your extract it seemed to be referring to when BS home and business were raided, not the historical charges. Those allegations are referred to as to why HR is interested in BS so early in the piece. How is there a trial about this issue being held right now with GJ's decisions under scrutiny by the plaintiff, if there was nothing to present at a hearing?

Post #1009 refers to Rupp's interest in BS as POI No 1 in the WT case.

Post #767 refers to Jubelin later arresting BS on the child sex allegations.

 

[iiiii's]

Post #1009 refers to Rupp's interest in BS as POI No 1 in the WT case.

Post #767 refers to Jubelin later arresting BS on the child sex allegations.

ok, maybe i've missed the context. Thanks.

 

[Lemony]

Perhaps if covert strategies were used and the investigation into BS was quieter, away from the public eye, that line of inquiry may have gone differently. We’ll never know now of course.

It would be difficult for any investigator (not GJ specifically) to come in after another has used a fairly aggressive strategy, those very public searches into BS couldn’t be undone and IMO would have taken away some investigative options.
Once those searches were over, Rupp was gone and SFR was left with a high profile case, a very public suspect and no hard evidence, far from ideal.

 

[inkpink]

IMO, if it had of been immediately known when WT went missing that he was in foster care, then suspicion would more likely have been cast on the Bio's.

 

[iiiii's]

Yes, I remember that red 4WD from super early in the case. It was mentioned, then never mentioned again - until the inquest.

I believe that the vehicle in FGM's driveway was a different relative (FM's sibling) that was visiting and left the day prior.

I have wondered if that visitor saw the two parked cars - white and bluey grey - when PS said he saw them on the day prior.

imo

interesting, and it seems only remembered by FFC, after sibling is picked up from the airport. Could this be the source of a false memory? MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder too if they will interview Hans Rupp as he was the DI in charge of the case initially and the spotlight was cast on BS well before GJ inherited the case. Perhaps GJ is just more high profile but I seem to remember he did not approve of the way BS had been treated or the publicity. He's an easy target after all that has happened but was he the cause?

I wonder what that means for the lawsuit case?

The lawsuit appears to target Jubes specifically, as a previous NSW police officer. So, if he is not liable for all the hoopla (and another officer is) does that let NSWPOL off the hook?

I thought I read that Jubes was going to be the final witness - I don't know if it worked out that way though. I haven't heard that Hans Rupp gave evidence. I have only heard 'other detectives' gave evidence, and maybe the name of one of those.
.

 

[Serenanicole]

Or, someone came to visit a neighbour, found the person out, came and went away unseen. At a time when lawn-mower-man wasn't on guard.

Or William wandered all the way down the driveway, near the road. Someone randomly drove down that road (maybe even lost, taken the wrong st) drove past him, noticing no one else is around, you turns pulls over and grabs him. Quick.

 

[SLouTh]

I wonder what that means for the lawsuit case?

The lawsuit appears to target Jubes specifically, as a previous NSW police officer. So, if he is not liable for all the hoopla (and another officer is) does that let NSWPOL off the hook?

I thought I read that Jubes was going to be the final witness - I don't know if it worked out that way though. I haven't heard that Hans Rupp gave evidence. I have only heard 'other detectives' gave evidence, and maybe the name of one of those.
.

Yes GJ was the final witness ...... not sure if we will get hear who else was called .....????

Gary Jubelin was today grilled in the witness box as part of William Spedding's claim against the state

The court has now heard from all witnesses and will adjourn until a later date for judgement.
Gary Jubelin tells court he did not threaten William Spedding as part of William Tyrrell investigation - ABC News