Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[kiwi50]

I’m cutting FGM some slack re her comment about William jumping out of his skull.
As one gets older you often forget words, I’m starting to do it, I’m sure she was trying to think of the word skin, but only got as far as ‘sk’ and to be fair there arent a lot of words you could add to ’sk’ that would fit.
Her walk through interview, didn’t raise any flags for me, sure she was nervous, but most of us would be. I think she was trying to remember.

 

[Kiri]

bbm
Did she mean herself plus the two kids?? Where were the foster parents at this time, and why was she, the not so familiar grandmother, alone with the two kids, although one of them had had already his behavior issues in the early morning (when FFC wanted him to get dressed with something, he didn't like)? The family had visited FGM's home the last time, when the grandfather had his funeral in February (?). If she wasn't a guest in Sydney several times, little William didn't know FGM very well, one can assume.

Not sure if I'm allowed to reply, given admin rules on only recent/long standing sleuths being allowed to make comment! (I'm long standing but been quiet recently!).... anyhow, what strikes me is that FGM uses negative words "W got sick of that", "other child just had to have the dice". I remember my elderly great nan getting exaserbated by her great grandson age 3 when he visted, just because they forget it's so intense!! it's quite a lot for some elderly family members to deal with - boisterous young grandchildren, especially if over excited etc and only irregular visitors who then stay for a good few days! I personally get stressed when staying over with my child, as I'm mindful we don't get on the host's nerves!!!! And tend to go out for parts of the day to lessen this!!! When FGM says "the last time we saw W" (before he goes...around house or is it onto verandah???). I'm sure imo she was about to say last time we saw W alive. Is that the verandah behind the washing ... did he run there and jump/fall? .. yes I know it's all been discussed b4, and no evidence found in searches then and later I.e luminol etc. But that sudden/abrupt 'quiet' vanishing of a child??? Weird. Regarding the '3' of them at breakfast, did FGM get left looking after the kids? While FP's both went out??? Perhaps it was all a lovely relaxed morning, but I'm not convinced! Are FP's covering FG or is it other way round?

 

[Kiri]

Regarding the deleted messages, surely they can be retrieved by the phone Intel./companies...maybe they were just FP's discussing WT's behaviour/issues I.e something like IMO hurry home I'm struggling to cope today type ones...they obviously, even if innocent may not want LE seeing them...but looks worse that they did delete them now! (If that is what happened). There has been discussion on FB about why the FP's co-slept (I'm actually pro co-sleeping to settle kids!). BUT if it was forbidden in fostering guidelines, that's maybe a red flag, I.e did they follow the set rules given at all? or were they just desperate to get sleep at all costs!!! (I get that situation to some extent - but they should still follow guidelines!). Just an observation, in FGM's defence...when she says she doesn't know who slept with who, I think she just means which parent slept with which child....although it's common knowledge the FF was with WT wasn't it?. I also got the impression FFC was aware FF had a better bond with W. That was public! ... does that mean she struggled?!? What a case. Whatever 'happened' happened on the porch/verandah. Even if FGM is just referring to the happening being the start of everything happening!!! I.e famous photo happened here etc I felt it really did happen there!! Was this visit a type of respite for FPs ?? I.e FM wanting help/reassurance from her mum...but it didn't help!!!!!

 

[JBowie]

it's quite a lot for some elderly family members to deal with - boisterous young grandchildren,

Not only elderly family members. A boisterous, hyperactive kid can wear down most adults in fairly short order. There are some kids who are never invited for a second play date.

 

[JBowie]

Regarding the deleted messages, surely they can be retrieved by the phone Intel./companies..

If caught in time, data erased from a phone's internal memory may be able to be 'undeleted'. New messages occupy (overwrite) the part of memory previously occupied by deleted messages.

Regarding the telcos, the actual message text (as opposed to the message metatdata) is not retained by them for long, if at all, as it occupies valuable server space.

This article, although rather poorly worded in places, discusses the topic:

How Long Do Phone Companies Keep Text Messages Australia? – ictsd.org

www.ictsd.org

 

[Kiri]

If caught in time, data erased from a phone's internal memory may be able to be 'undeleted'. New messages occupy (overwrite) the part of memory previously occupied by deleted messages.

Regarding the telcos, the actual message text (as opposed to the message metatdata) is not retained by them for long, if at all, as it occupies valuable server space.

This article, although rather poorly worded in places, discusses the topic:

How Long Do Phone Companies Keep Text Messages Australia? – ictsd.org

www.ictsd.org

Yes, it seems they don't have the actual messages or they would refer to the nature of the messages I guess!

 

[T-dawg420]

No, there were not other children playing on the street at the time. LH's youngest child was the only one home at that time (and was inside) ... the H's lived at the other end of the road.

Between 9 and 9:30am the school aged children were already at school.


“That’s pretty good luck. Especially at 10.30am on a Friday when there should only be one kid on the street, which is mine.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

I don’t understand how anybody can 100% state that the witness statements were/are 100% accurate?

incorrect witness statements account for a staggering amount of wrongful convictions.

sure there are two statements saying similar things, but who knows, what if the time was suggested to the witnesses to fit a narrative? What if one of those witnesses, or both where so keen to help their memory is mistaken? It happens quite a lot.

but just as it may be inaccurate, it also could be very accurate.

edit to add: when were the witness statements taken? Is that a known fact? Was it hours, days, weeks apart? Could they possibly have told each other the same story and been convinced by the other?

 

[Akai]

Yes, it seems they don't have the actual messages or they would refer to the nature of the messages I guess!

This interests me, as I think it has interested others on here. If police believe these messages were specifically between FF & FM, then surely either they can acquire them from FM's phone or FM deleted them as well. If they acquired them from FM's phone then what were they checking with FF, aside from pondering his general message deleting behaviour? If they were deleted on both phones wouldn't that be alarm bells?

 

[deugirtni]

bbm
Did she mean herself plus the two kids?? Where were the foster parents at this time, and why was she, the not so familiar grandmother, alone with the two kids, although one of them had had already his behavior issues in the early morning (when FFC wanted him to get dressed with something, he didn't like)? The family had visited FGM's home the last time, when the grandfather had his funeral in February (?). If she wasn't a guest in Sydney several times, little William didn't know FGM very well, one can assume.

Or did she mean herself plus FM plus 'Lyndsay'? And if so, where was W at this time?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t understand how anybody can 100% state that the witness statements were/are 100% accurate?

incorrect witness statements account for a staggering amount of wrongful convictions.

sure there are two statements saying similar things, but who knows, what if the time was suggested to the witnesses to fit a narrative? What if one of those witnesses, or both where so keen to help their memory is mistaken? It happens quite a lot.

but just as it may be inaccurate, it also could be very accurate.

edit to add: when were the witness statements taken? Is that a known fact? Was it hours, days, weeks apart? Could they possibly have told each other the same story and been convinced by the other?

I am trying to work with real information, is how I see it.

The probability of these two independent witnesses being correct is high, based on the surrounding data.

No other children in that area, except one who was inside at the opposite end of the street
JW heard the sounds from her direction at the next house
PS heard the sounds from his direction of directly across the street
PS is the street sticky beak and likes to know what is what
They had both lived in their houses for years and will be familiar with local sounds
They were both outside when they heard the sounds
They both heard them during the same time period of about ½ an hour

Could they be right? The probably are. imo

 

[drsleuth]

I am trying to work with real information, is how I see it.

The probability of these two independent witnesses being correct is high, based on the surrounding data.

No other children in that area, except one who was inside at the opposite end of the street
JW heard the sounds from her direction at the next house
PS heard the sounds from his direction of directly across the street
PS is the street sticky beak and likes to know what is what
They had both lived in their houses for years and will be familiar with local sounds
They were both outside when they heard the sounds
They both heard them during the same time period of about ½ an hour

Could they be right? The probably are. imo

Yep SA, & detective Laura Beecroft's amazing spreadsheet

 

[T-dawg420]

I am trying to work with real information, is how I see it.

The probability of these two independent witnesses being correct is high, based on the surrounding data.

No other children in that area, except one who was inside at the opposite end of the street
JW heard the sounds from her direction at the next house
PS heard the sounds from his direction of directly across the street
PS is the street sticky beak and likes to know what is what
They had both lived in their houses for years and will be familiar with local sounds
They were both outside when they heard the sounds
They both heard them during the same time period of about ½ an hour

Could they be right? The probably are. imo

absolutely I get what you are saying. But “probably” is not 100% imo. Also, wasnt PS once a suspect? I wonder if they held as much validity in his statement then?

all I wonder is how real” that information is?

 

[Tessi V]

I don’t understand how anybody can 100% state that the witness statements were/are 100% accurate?

incorrect witness statements account for a staggering amount of wrongful convictions.

sure there are two statements saying similar things, but who knows, what if the time was suggested to the witnesses to fit a narrative? What if one of those witnesses, or both where so keen to help their memory is mistaken? It happens quite a lot.

but just as it may be inaccurate, it also could be very accurate.

edit to add: when were the witness statements taken? Is that a known fact? Was it hours, days, weeks apart? Could they possibly have told each other the same story and been convinced by the other?

I'm not sure what the focus on the two statements are, witness credibility or corroboration, however either way it tells me that during that time there were noises that were noticeable enough for different people to take note of.
So with an investigation that has only two possible scenarios at play - and is trying to establish if there was an abduction or not, the fact two persons have been able to provide testimony to hearing children playing could also help determine how observant the neighbours really are and why no one has come forth with information regarding seeing strange cars. As they never witnessed anything discernible to support the abduction theory, on that morning (?). MOO.

For the amount of facts we have learned, there's little clarity in all of this. I just hope to see the whole truth uncovered, whatever it entails and whichever way everything fits.

 

[LIBPOP]

Does anyone know/understand what documents might have been released to inform this article/why? Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

 

[SleepyJoe]

Does anyone know/understand what documents might have been released to inform this article/why? Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

From the article "But Daily Mail Australia can reveal for the first time the contents of the foster father's first police interview, conducted just two days after the toddler vanished, in which he admits a 'distressing' incident.......In the interview, the foster father describes waking up on the morning of the day William would go missing, Friday, September 12, 2014." This MFC police statement, presumably from 14/9/14, appears to be one of these documents.

 

[SLouTh]

Does anyone know/understand what documents might have been released to inform this article/why? Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

From the article it seems to be the following:

But Daily Mail Australia can reveal for the first time the contents of the foster father's first police interview, conducted just two days after the toddler vanished.

In a later interview, two years after William disappeared, the foster father says William 'woke up and then, you know, he's giggling, he's all over me'. ( Could this be the interview with GJ in 2016???? )

The Video Interview with FGM may be the FGM Walkthrough Interview that was played at the Inquest?? Or a part of it??? Maybe @drsleuth can confirm this please ???

Possibly there are other documents?????

But those are the only sources I can find referenced in the article .....

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MissMarpleAU]

Hence why she had mentioned she was ready to give up. She couldn’t stop the visits that she suspected were causing the bad behaviour that the article reported her saying went for months. Seeing the effect on the other child would have been upsetting. I wonder if there was another cause for this behaviour that she hadn’t realised or had diagnosed? He may have been autistic and therefore emotionally overwhelmed - all MOO

In my experience with foster children, their behavioural issues are gene

Good pick up! If this is the case then IMO that is a seriously botched police investigation, because I have heard nothing about the FF making two trips where one was at 8am with a return prior to 9am and then another trip out to conduct the meeting at Lakewood. (There has been discussion about him potentially having a second trip at 9:30am with the media reporting that mobile phone records show him leaving the house at 9:30am, but nothing that I can recall canvasses him having an earlier trip. https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04) Everything I have heard and recall links the trip with vision of him going past the tennis club at 8:40am to his meeting. And every interview and report I have heard or read from the FPs has him making that single trip to the meeting.

I wonder if this is the false & misleading evidence? That police can demonstrate he left the house around 8am then returned and left about 9am again for his meeting?

But surely, at the very beginning, police looked at his chemist receipt, with the time, and confirmed with staff there? I just did a quick google search of lakewood chemists, in 2022 they open 9am weekdays.

 

[SleepyJoe]

In my experience with foster children, their behavioural issues are gene

Do you mind please explaining what you mean? (your sentence appears incomplete) Thanks.

 

[SLouTh]

For the amount of facts we have learned, there's little clarity in all of this. I just hope to see the whole truth uncovered, whatever it entails and whichever way everything fits.

Yes I keep thinking / wondering when the truth is finally revealed, if the answer will be relatively simple ???

Could a simple explanation for whatever dreadful event in William's life has occurred, be staring at us in the face???

I still think finding William, will give his families answers, and finally reveal the truth of what happened ......

I pray this will come soon....
IMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

Well I'm old and 7am is early for me!

It really all depends on what time you go to bed or if you’re a person who needs a lot or little sleep imo