Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Detective Willy]

Maybe, he had to go to the toilet before he continued with his search? A call of nature has to be answered even at the most stressful times. I wouldn’t read anything sinister into it, but that’s just me.
I‘d hate to go over every step I took at a highly emotional time and event. I wouldn’t remember a toilet visit. JMO

All I am pointing out is that its another statement made by one of the foster carers that has a question mark over it and there are too many of these things for my liking.

MFC tells the interviewing officer "I've been in cub scouts, venturers, I've been out bush on motorbike trips and all that sort of stuff, I'm pretty savvy in that regard".

He then explains how he was thoroughly and systematically searching for William when he got home.

The problem is that it appears that he was NOT searching for William when police arrived.

He was crying in the bathroom.

 

[Couldbe]

William Tyrrell inquest: foster mother immediately thought 'somebody has taken him'
“I couldn’t hear a thing. It was silent, there was no wind, there were no birds,” the woman said in Sydney on Tuesday at an inquest into William’s disappearance and suspected death in September 2014.

JMO – The questions could be asked:–

……. Why would the FFC be expecting to hear the wind or the birds? and

……. Because an abduction may have occurred, was she associating that lack of the sound of wind and birds being caused by such an event?

 

[SLouTh]

William Tyrrell inquest: foster mother immediately thought 'somebody has taken him'
“I couldn’t hear a thing. It was silent, there was no wind, there were no birds,” the woman said in Sydney on Tuesday at an inquest into William’s disappearance and suspected death in September 2014.

JMO – The questions could be asked:–

……. Why would the FFC be expecting to hear the wind or the birds? and

……. Because an abduction may have occurred, was she associating that lack of the sound of wind and birds being caused by such an event?

Do you think maybe she was just describing “that moment“ where “the world seems to stand still” ????
imo

 

[Couldbe]

Do you think maybe she was just describing “that moment“ where “the world seems to stand still” ????
imo

Yes SLouTH ... that is likely.
I just figure some raw 'down to earth' description would have served her better, because people like me do wonder why FFC found it necessary to use 'over-describing / use of imagery' to tell what exactly occurred.

 

[drsleuth]

Yes SLouTH ... that is likely.
I just figure some raw 'down to earth' description would have served her better, because people like me do wonder why FFC found it necessary to use 'over-describing / use of imagery' to tell what exactly occurred.

What do you suggest she could have said, that's "down to earth" ?

 

[Couldbe]

What do you suggest she could have said, that's "down to earth" ?

A basic description.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Neighbour Anne-Maree Sharpley remembers seeing William Tyrell’s distressed mother frantically pacing the quiet street where they both live searching for her son just minutes after he went missing.
“You could tell she was very distressed when she first came to us,” Mrs Sharpley said.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

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IMO that would have to be a while after he was missing, after FM car trip

 

[drsleuth]

A basic description.

Ok, it seems a basic description to me , but I am interested in how you would describe it , what different you would say??

I think you have to remember she was also responding to questions being asked to her by Mr Caddock.

 

[JLZ]

Ok, it seems a basic description to me , but I am interested in how you would describe it , what different you would say??

I think you have to remember she was also responding to questions being asked to her by Mr Caddock.

I would like to be able to distinguish between literal observation of the external world and description of her own emotional state. We're discussing whether when FFC discovered William was missing the environment was literally silent or whether she was having a world-stood-still experience. We can't tell. Potentially the answer would narrow the range of time in which William must have disappeared, because much has been made about how sound carries in that street and there might be times available for when the ride-on-mower was and wasn't in operation.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

All I am pointing out is that its another statement made by one of the foster carers that has a question mark over it and there are too many of these things for my liking.

MFC tells the interviewing officer "I've been in cub scouts, venturers, I've been out bush on motorbike trips and all that sort of stuff, I'm pretty savvy in that regard".

He then explains how he was thoroughly and systematically searching for William when he got home.

The problem is that it appears that he was NOT searching for William when police arrived.

He was crying in the bathroom.

The police have broken down his movements on that morning, with their own accounts of the day, witnesses accounts and then, the FF’s. A toilet break wouldn’t even register, imo, unless something significant happened. JMO

 

[Awakening]

I googled why do birds suddenly go quiet and the general answer was because there's a predator in the area (possibly human but usually a larger bird or animal).

 

[SouthAussie]

I would like to be able to distinguish between literal observation of the external world and description of her own emotional state. We're discussing whether when FFC discovered William was missing the environment was literally silent or whether she was having a world-stood-still experience. We can't tell. Potentially the answer would narrow the range of time in which William must have disappeared, because much has been made about how sound carries in that street and there might be times available for when the ride-on-mower was and wasn't in operation.

IMO it could have been a case of her being intent on listening for a sound of William and so she didn't hear any other typical sound.
(In a similar manner to our minds choosing to block the sound of frequent train traffic if we live near train tracks.)
You can't see your child, you can't hear him, your heart stops, your vision and hearing goes on high focus.

Or as Awakening was speaking of ... birds going quiet if a threat is around. Perhaps in the moments before, a person had just been lurking among those trees. Or had suddenly dashed across the road and led William away from under the trees.

Whatever it was, that was her reality at the time.

imo


"Anyone with normally functioning ear and brain activities will involuntarily hear sounds of a certain intensity. However, we do exercise control over the attention given to the sounds we hear. The person who lives beside a train track may say they never hear the trains. They do in fact hear them, but their nervous system is so accustomed to the sound they can choose to tune it out subconsciously… This is possible because that person controls their thought processes and can choose whether or not to listen.

We all know that it’s relatively easy to employ selective hearing if we’re thinking about something else, ultimately tuning out sounds around us."
Hearing vs listening

 

[Mauig’ma]

I don't know where the impression comes from that FM was not crying and upset.
The dictionary meaning of distressed is "suffering from extreme anxiety, sorrow, or pain".



Neighbour Anne-Maree Sharpley remembers seeing William Tyrell’s distressed mother frantically pacing the quiet street where they both live searching for her son just minutes after he went missing.
“You could tell she was very distressed when she first came to us,” Mrs Sharpley said.

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

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William's foster-parents were "in a very, very distressed state; they were shouting and screaming off their heads for William," neighbour Peter Crabbe told the inquest.

'It was quick and high pitched': William Tyrrell's foster-mother heard a scream

William Tyrrell disappeared from his grandmother's front yard on the Mid North Coast in September 2014 while playing "daddy tiger" with his sister.

www.smh.com.au

To me they played the role of grieving distraught foster parents with red flags flying everywhere. Imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

All I am pointing out is that its another statement made by one of the foster carers that has a question mark over it and there are too many of these things for my liking.

MFC tells the interviewing officer "I've been in cub scouts, venturers, I've been out bush on motorbike trips and all that sort of stuff, I'm pretty savvy in that regard".

He then explains how he was thoroughly and systematically searching for William when he got home.

The problem is that it appears that he was NOT searching for William when police arrived.

He was crying in the bathroom.

My point exactly. Red flags everywhere! Right from the beginning when all of this started. Now here we are 7 years later. Let’s look at all the facts we know of to date. There’s really too many to count. We have all the lies, discrepancies, abuse charges etc how can anyone believe a word the foster carers say? I’m curious with all the information we have how anyone can believe something sinister didn’t happen involving the foster parents? I feel most of us agree the foster parents had something to do with William disappearing. Whether deliberately or accidentally we’re not sure. For the few people who are in disagreement please explain why you think other. I want to have an open mind. But my mind is closed after 7 years of searching. Especially with the new developments, poi and charges. Le didn’t say they have a poi for nothing. I’m hopeful William will get the justice he deserves. I feel like it’s coming slowly but surely.

 

[Megnut]

To me they played the role of grieving distraught foster parents with red flags flying everywhere. Imo

The biggest point for me is that, if the female caregiver really thought Wm could've been abducted, her immediate thought should've been the birth family, come to squirrel Wm away. IMO those would've been among her first words to the operator. Suddenly he was missing, he's not in any of the likely places, and this is a foster situation, they could've taken him.

That was not on her mind apparently

Not even, I'm worried he's nearby, but hiding afraid to come out.

I don't even know that she asked even one time for them to hurry!

IF Wm was missing for five minutes before she began to look, and didn't actually find him immediately, why would she go on an explore, by car, farther than he could possibly have gotten?! Logic would say HE WAS HIDING!! He'd been PLAYING all morning. He could be in a tree (dare devil), hidden in the reeds, hiding in the garage or in a car. In a trunk, by his own doing. Behind a sofa. Under a bed.

Curiously it doesn't appear that she searched inside the house until after the drive! She searched inside with the foster grandma, culminating in the call to the operator, if I've got that part of the timeline correct.

The most logical place for Wm to be hiding, and safe. And it was LAST on her short list of places to search????

And she tells the foster father Wm was just here five minutes ago when he'd been gone that long PLUS the time she was driving....

I still say tensions were running high that morning. Marital discord. Separate beds. Deleted texts. Wm bonding to the foster father, the foster mother resentful? Certainly overwhelmed by Wm's very normal behaviors! Wm wasn't a designer puppy. Foster children come with histories and issues, how could they not?

IF the foster mother discovered Wm with a fatal injury that ATTENTION would have averted or if she caused a chain reaction leading to a fatal accident, how would she ever be able to tell the foster father that? The little boy he bonded with, that she wanted to give back, suddenly dead.

Crazy to think an accident could happen THAT fast but they can and they do.

If Wm wasn't in the immediate area to be found, he was removed from the area.

The foster grandma"s car was in play during the critical window.

Perhaps if she'd done what I fear she's done, she pulled over elsewhere to do it, only no one passed her, no one saw her, or if either, they were unaware then what they were seeing and unaware still because they've never seen her face. Never made a connection to this case.

Maybe she stopped where she was to read a text and gather her wits.

JMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

The biggest point for me is that, if the female caregiver really thought Wm could've been abducted, her immediate thought should've been the birth family, come to squirrel Wm away. IMO those would've been among her first words to the operator. Suddenly he was missing, he's not in any of the likely places, and this is a foster situation, they could've taken him.

That was not on her mind apparently

Not even, I'm worried he's nearby, but hiding afraid to come out.

I don't even know that she asked even one time for them to hurry!

IF Wm was missing for five minutes before she began to look, and didn't actually find him immediately, why would she go on an explore, by car, farther than he could possibly have gotten?! Logic would say HE WAS HIDING!! He'd been PLAYING all morning. He could be in a tree (dare devil), hidden in the reeds, hiding in the garage or in a car. In a trunk, by his own doing. Behind a sofa. Under a bed.

Curiously it doesn't appear that she searched inside the house until after the drive! She searched inside with the foster grandma, culminating in the call to the operator, if I've got that part of the timeline correct.

The most logical place for Wm to be hiding, and safe. And it was LAST on her short list of places to search????

And she tells the foster father Wm was just here five minutes ago when he'd been gone that long PLUS the time she was driving....

I still say tensions were running high that morning. Marital discord. Separate beds. Deleted texts. Wm bonding to the foster father, the foster mother resentful? Certainly overwhelmed by Wm's very normal behaviors! Wm wasn't a designer puppy. Foster children come with histories and issues, how could they not?

IF the foster mother discovered Wm with a fatal injury that ATTENTION would have averted or if she caused a chain reaction leading to a fatal accident, how would she ever be able to tell the foster father that? The little boy he bonded with, that she wanted to give back, suddenly dead.

Crazy to think an accident could happen THAT fast but they can and they do.

If Wm wasn't in the immediate area to be found, he was removed from the area.

The foster grandma"s car was in play during the critical window.

Perhaps if she'd done what I fear she's done, she pulled over elsewhere to do it, only no one passed her, no one saw her, or if either, they were unaware then what they were seeing and unaware still because they've never seen her face. Never made a connection to this case.

Maybe she stopped where she was to read a text and gather her wits.

JMO

Well said. Nice job with the scenario with what looks like what could have happened imo. Too many things point in this direction. Especially after 7 years of le re interviewing people there that day and readjusting their focus to where it should be. The ffc ( poi)! There’s a reason ffc is their main focus. Look at everything from the very beginning. All of it. Then look what’s happened since. The lies, deception, verbal and physical abuse charges, deleted text messages, the car ride, the proof of life photo discrepancy. There’s a lot more to add to this list. It baffles my mind how anyone at this point could defend the foster parents. I still can’t believe their identities aren’t plastered all over the place. When imo it could help solve this case. People need to know what they’re looking for. How can they when part of what they’re looking for is blocked from being seen. After everything, this is the biggest red flag for me with these people. Not showing their face to the world. If they cared for William and had nothing to hide they should be out there in person with the whole world watching. Imo they’re scared of being recognized by more than one person. They’re scared of something. And could it be their demise. Then there’s the mental health issues that were denied by the court. Thank goodness. Ffc can’t use that as a crutch to explain away verbal and physical abuse charges. What we’re seeing imo is the beginning of the end. Le have been quietly and diligently working hard at solving this. I think they’re way ahead of what we know. And pretty soon more things will come to the surface. Proof and evidence is what’s needed. I think le have both imo. We patiently wait for their court dates and we’ll learn more as it goes. The foster carers “story “ started to crumble long before now imo. A person can lie for only so long before it’s comes back at ya revealing the real truth. It’s coming for ya William. I feel it lil guy. Just hold on a little while longer. I pray God unearths William. I feel it’s important for us as a community to be able to feel comfort in knowing William gets the justice he so deserves and a proper burial. With all of us here at Websleuths sending him an honorable send off. I won’t ever give up hope on William. He reminds me of my 3rd son. Cute as a button with a smile you can’t say no to and a personality that’s full of piss and vinegar. William, what’s happening right now is supposed to. Keep faith and let le do their job. Justice Is Coming Sweetheart. I know it. Moo

 

[Couldbe]

The biggest point for me is that, if the female caregiver really thought Wm could've been abducted, her immediate thought should've been the birth family, come to squirrel Wm away. IMO those would've been among her first words to the operator. Suddenly he was missing, he's not in any of the likely places, and this is a foster situation, they could've taken him.

That was not on her mind apparently

Not even, I'm worried he's nearby, but hiding afraid to come out.

I don't even know that she asked even one time for them to hurry!

IF Wm was missing for five minutes before she began to look, and didn't actually find him immediately, why would she go on an explore, by car, farther than he could possibly have gotten?! Logic would say HE WAS HIDING!! He'd been PLAYING all morning. He could be in a tree (dare devil), hidden in the reeds, hiding in the garage or in a car. In a trunk, by his own doing. Behind a sofa. Under a bed.

Curiously it doesn't appear that she searched inside the house until after the drive! She searched inside with the foster grandma, culminating in the call to the operator, if I've got that part of the timeline correct.

The most logical place for Wm to be hiding, and safe. And it was LAST on her short list of places to search????

And she tells the foster father Wm was just here five minutes ago when he'd been gone that long PLUS the time she was driving....

I still say tensions were running high that morning. Marital discord. Separate beds. Deleted texts. Wm bonding to the foster father, the foster mother resentful? Certainly overwhelmed by Wm's very normal behaviors! Wm wasn't a designer puppy. Foster children come with histories and issues, how could they not?

IF the foster mother discovered Wm with a fatal injury that ATTENTION would have averted or if she caused a chain reaction leading to a fatal accident, how would she ever be able to tell the foster father that? The little boy he bonded with, that she wanted to give back, suddenly dead.

Crazy to think an accident could happen THAT fast but they can and they do.

If Wm wasn't in the immediate area to be found, he was removed from the area.

The foster grandma"s car was in play during the critical window.

Perhaps if she'd done what I fear she's done, she pulled over elsewhere to do it, only no one passed her, no one saw her, or if either, they were unaware then what they were seeing and unaware still because they've never seen her face. Never made a connection to this case.

Maybe she stopped where she was to read a text and gather her wits.

JMO

Well said. Nice job with the scenario with what looks like what could have happened imo. Too many things point in this direction. Especially after 7 years of le re interviewing people there that day and readjusting their focus to where it should be. The ffc ( poi)! There’s a reason ffc is their main focus. Look at everything from the very beginning. All of it. Then look what’s happened since. The lies, deception, verbal and physical abuse charges, deleted text messages, the car ride, the proof of life photo discrepancy. There’s a lot more to add to this list. It baffles my mind how anyone at this point could defend the foster parents. I still can’t believe their identities aren’t plastered all over the place. When imo it could help solve this case. People need to know what they’re looking for. How can they when part of what they’re looking for is blocked from being seen. After everything, this is the biggest red flag for me with these people. Not showing their face to the world. If they cared for William and had nothing to hide they should be out there in person with the whole world watching. Imo they’re scared of being recognized by more than one person. They’re scared of something. And could it be their demise. Then there’s the mental health issues that were denied by the court. Thank goodness. Ffc can’t use that as a crutch to explain away verbal and physical abuse charges. What we’re seeing imo is the beginning of the end. Le have been quietly and diligently working hard at solving this. I think they’re way ahead of what we know. And pretty soon more things will come to the surface. Proof and evidence is what’s needed. I think le have both imo. We patiently wait for their court dates and we’ll learn more as it goes. The foster carers “story “ started to crumble long before now imo. A person can lie for only so long before it’s comes back at ya revealing the real truth. It’s coming for ya William. I feel it lil guy. Just hold on a little while longer. I pray God unearths William. I feel it’s important for us as a community to be able to feel comfort in knowing William gets the justice he so deserves and a proper burial. With all of us here at Websleuths sending him an honorable send off. I won’t ever give up hope on William. He reminds me of my 3rd son. Cute as a button with a smile you can’t say no to and a personality that’s full of piss and vinegar. William, what’s happening right now is supposed to. Keep faith and let le do their job. Justice Is Coming Sweetheart. I know it. Moo

JMO – Megnut and Mauig’ma you have both eloquently expressed your thoughts on the circumstances surrounding William’s disappearance and in doing so, have focussed on possible relevant reasons for keeping us hopeful that 'William will get the justice he so deserves and a proper burial'.

 

[SouthAussie]

The biggest point for me is that, if the female caregiver really thought Wm could've been abducted, her immediate thought should've been the birth family, come to squirrel Wm away. IMO those would've been among her first words to the operator. Suddenly he was missing, he's not in any of the likely places, and this is a foster situation, they could've taken him.

That was not on her mind apparently

I think it was on her mind. The police visited the BP that afternoon ... making sure that William was not with them, and checking on their movements that day.

And FACS would have been notified quite quickly, as a photo of William was allowed to be released that afternoon. (The first reports of a missing child had no photo.) FACS also likely provided the police with the BP address.

However, if FM's first thought was that someone had taken William. Her 2nd thought may have been that he must be around here, maybe he did wander - there is a first time for everything, as we all know. She must have been hoping and hoping that he did wander and could be found.

When people make a 000 call, they want the police there. Pronto. Helping them. We do not know when potential BP involvement was discussed, but obviously it was early in the piece.

imo

 

[nightrider17]

Years ago - a incident occurred involving my 4 year old child.

Visiting grandparents.

Women in the kitchen preparing a cooked lunch.

Men and children at the back of the house watching childrens shows on television.

Grandfather unbeknown to me and women in kitchen - took all children and male adults onto pontoon on creek (no fence) to feed fish.

They returned and then later on my child went back out alone onto pontoon and fell into the creek. Child was able to tread water and hang onto to edge of pontoon. A neighbour a few houses up saw child and rescued and brought child in his arms to the back door and knocked saying is this child from this house.

I was not aware of the feeding fish incident - didn't go checking on her. Why - I wrongly ASSUMED she was being supervised by her father, grandfather and other Male Adults.

Whose responsibiity and fault was it ultimately - Mine. That's really how it played out. There is now a fence blocking access to pontoon.

I could not tell you what she was doing while I was in the kitchen - it could have been a very tragic outcome. Including even the possiblity someone else could have taken the child - because seeing them in the arms of a stranger was really confronting. Considering they never went or interacted with strangers.

He wasn't even the next door neighbour he was 2 more houses further along. He just happened to be in his back yard - also without fences. I had never met him.

What am I saying here.

Time plus opportunity = has to exist.

5 minutes missing its really difficult to accept that time construct.

30 minutes of not sighting someone leaves more opportunity for things to go wrong and endless possibilities. MOO

 

[Rumination1]

Children can walk away

They can get fair distances too. I’m struggling with why did fm go for a drive but not tell FGM she was leaving sister with her