Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[nightrider17]

Hi SouthAussie,

I think the Crabb's testimony has to be given some significant weighting.

Due to the pure fact of having to collect someone's mail for them while away and the Crabb's pointing out to the Police Officer them being able to hear cars - perhaps due to their house having a elevated position on the block.

I believe that compared to others living in the street they were more invested in keeping tabs on the comings and goings in the street. They also may have less distractions (eg no children) to facilitate them to recognise and investigate strange or unfamiliar sounding vehicles. The obligation to collect the mail was obviously something they considered as their responsibility to ensure it occurred.

Because even though people say its a close knit community and people don't often see strangers - there has been more pointing to perhaps the others in the street not being that close knit. JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

I wonder if they ever located this vehicle.
I wonder if it was seen on the tennis club CCTV, and if it wasn't, why not?

From the Crabb's testimony ....


Both remembered hearing what they assumed was the postie enter the street. They were half-listening for him [sic], because the [holidaying residents of No.52, across the road] had asked them to take in the mail while they were in Queensland.

'It was a very, very quiet street, you can always hear somebody coming up the road,' [Mr C] said, recalling that he turned to his wife when he heard the car, saying: 'That could be the postie.'

He thought the car had stopped to do a U-turn, or maybe turn in a circle [?], before heading off again.

'It didn't stop at [PS's], it stopped at [FGM's],' he said. 'I don't know how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. It stopped, and then it kept going.'

[Ms C] also remembers hearing that car.

'You do hear quite a lot,' she said, of Benaroon Drive. 'And I thought this could be the postie. Because it wasn't going slow, it was going reasonably fast, like the postie does.'

[Ms C] said the car paused before it went off again, and it was only when police came asking about unfamiliar vehicles in the street 'that we sat back and started to think that was maybe somebody stopping and picking William up?' said [Mr C]."

"Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, chapter 4, pp.75-6.
Thread 55, post 551

Thanks for that South Aussie
A couple of things that stand out to me
1) the car didn’t stop at PS house it stopped at fgm house which indicates (to me) that whoever was driving that vehicle that morning entered Benaroon Dr specifically to go to the fgm house. that’s where the car stopped right. It didn’t pause or stop at any other house in the street as Mr & Mrs C said they heard the vehicle come up the street and STOP at the fgm house and then drive off. FAST
Question were the ff or fgm expecting company that morning? A planned visit from someone whom the ff would maybe only catch up with while on that side of town?
2) the car stopped for as long as it takes to put a letter in the letterbox.
How long would that be roughly. 20sec? So if this was a random abduction 20sec doesn’t seem like enough time to either “get out the car and walk up the fgm estate to the side of the house where W was last seen playing, snatch him without making any noise, walk or run back down to the car put W in the car and drive off” or “pull up at fgm house, spot W playing in the garden, somehow entice lil W to make his way down to the car, put W in the car and drive off. I can’t see either of those scenarios taking the same amount of time it would take for a postie to put a letter in the letterbox.

Remember W isn’t a wanderer and isn’t the type of child who would easily be enticed by a stranger. He’s curious but cautious.

I wonder what Ffc thought W was doing in the 5 or so minutes when she could no longer hear or see him. For a 3yo child to play in close proximity even if you can’t see them, so long as you can at least hear them then it’s not so bad. But the second you can’t hear your child is usually the moment when you instantly realise “I can’t hear my child” is the second you look to see where they are and what they’re doing.
5min is a long time to not hear your child especially when you can’t see them.
How distracted was the Ffc. Seems as thought she was very distracted. Distracted enough to not realise W hadn’t been heard for some time. 5min is the time given as it fits in with W possibly being abducted. If it were less than 5min then an abduction would seem highly unlikely and Ffc story wouldn’t add up. So I think the timeframe Ffc gave as being 5min was very strategic. 5min is Not too long that it points to fault at the Ffc not watching her 3yo child playing in an i fenced backyard but long enough to point to a possible abduction. Interesting

 

[nightrider17]

FA definetly is a significant POI.

Everyone who has dealings with him have found him to be unsavoury. JMO

 

[nightrider17]

Chrissy74 that explanation really puts into question if that car heard by the Crabbs could pull off the abduction in the time and fit in with what they heard.

You have illuminated that while this car may have had opportunity - was it actually possible considering they said it moved on - quickly.

I guess the context of what time this was may have some relevance. Was it the FFC returning with the FFGM car after her car ride. JMO

 

[Chrissy74]

FA definetly is a significant POI.

Everyone who has dealings with him have found him to be unsavoury. JMO

Ok so why do you think FA was at Benaroon Dr that morning nightrider17? Surely police have investigated this theory thoroughly, asking neighbours if they knew FA or had expected him to come to their home that morning.
Another theory on here is that he may have gone to fgm house in place of GO who he sometimes worked with. Surely GO was grilled by police and at the inquest if this assumption had any truth to it.

 

[Chrissy74]

Chrissy74 that explanation really puts into question if that car heard by the Crabbs could pull off the abduction in the time and fit in with what they heard.

You have illuminated that while this car may have had opportunity - was it actually possible considering they said it moved on - quickly.

I guess the context of what time this was may have some relevance. Was it the FFC returning with the FFGM car after her car ride. JMO

“I think the Crabb's testimony has to be given some significant weighting.”
I believe the time the car was heard was “half hr after the C returned home” which was roughly 9:35.So that puts the time of the car they heard in the street to be around 10:05am. If as Ffc states the time W went missing was around 10:30 then I think it’s fairly safe to eliminate that car as being the same car Ffc drove on her way out of Benaroon Dr.
The time estimated by officer Beecroft at the inquest as being the time W disappeared was between 10-10:15am. This time does seem to fit in with the time the C heard the car and I’m sure Detective Beecroft who has invested a great deal of time in this case gave that timeframe for a very good reason

 

[SouthAussie]

The witness (who appeared - pixelated - in 7NEWS Investigates, they called him "Steve") said that FA would have been there for petty theft.
Thread 57, post 301


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.
“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.
When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied "100%".

William Tyrrell investigation reveals person of interest Frank Abbott has no alibi on day of disappearance


And we know that FA has been accused of petty theft, as this Australian article says that ... "Mr Abbott has previously been acquitted of the murder of a seventeen-year-old girl. He has also been acquitted of a sex crime against an eight-year-old girl. He has been accused during this inquest of bestiality with two local dogs, and petty theft." (UBM)

Tiny church now at centre of William Tyrrell inquiries

 

[Chrissy74]

The witness (who appeared - pixelated - in 7NEWS Investigates, they called him "Steve") said that FA would have been there for petty theft.


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.
“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.
When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied "100%".

William Tyrrell investigation reveals person of interest Frank Abbott has no alibi on day of disappearance


And we know that FA has been accused of petty theft, as this Australian article says that ... "Mr Abbott has previously been acquitted of the murder of a seventeen-year-old girl. He has also been acquitted of a sex crime against an eight-year-old girl. He has been accused during this inquest of bestiality with two local dogs, and petty theft." (UBM)

Tiny church now at centre of William Tyrrell inquiries

I wonder why Steve’s face was pixilated due to a court order and how well he knew FA. Obviously well enough to make the “petty theft” statement. Seems this Steve guy is a fairly shady character who knew FA who is another shady character well enough to make such claims. Surely he didn’t make those claims on national tv purely from assumption. Steve would have to have had some connections and interactions with FA to claim truth to any of his accusations against FA.
From one shady character to another.. It’s amazing what some people will do and say for 5min of fame

 

[Mauig’ma]

I wonder if they ever located this vehicle.
I wonder if it was seen on the tennis club CCTV, and if it wasn't, why not?

From the Crabb's testimony ....


Both remembered hearing what they assumed was the postie enter the street. They were half-listening for him [sic], because the [holidaying residents of No.52, across the road] had asked them to take in the mail while they were in Queensland.

'It was a very, very quiet street, you can always hear somebody coming up the road,' [Mr C] said, recalling that he turned to his wife when he heard the car, saying: 'That could be the postie.'

He thought the car had stopped to do a U-turn, or maybe turn in a circle [?], before heading off again.

'It didn't stop at [PS's], it stopped at [FGM's],' he said. 'I don't know how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. It stopped, and then it kept going.'

[Ms C] also remembers hearing that car.

'You do hear quite a lot,' she said, of Benaroon Drive. 'And I thought this could be the postie. Because it wasn't going slow, it was going reasonably fast, like the postie does.'

[Ms C] said the car paused before it went off again, and it was only when police came asking about unfamiliar vehicles in the street 'that we sat back and started to think that was maybe somebody stopping and picking William up?' said [Mr C]."

"Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, chapter 4, pp.75-6.
Thread 55, post 551

Imo that sounds like it very well be the mfc disposing of William while ffc later disposed something else. Shoe for example. Anything. Moo

 

[Mauig’ma]

The witness (who appeared - pixelated - in 7NEWS Investigates, they called him "Steve") said that FA would have been there for petty theft.
Thread 57, post 301


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.
“I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.
When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied "100%".

William Tyrrell investigation reveals person of interest Frank Abbott has no alibi on day of disappearance


And we know that FA has been accused of petty theft, as this Australian article says that ... "Mr Abbott has previously been acquitted of the murder of a seventeen-year-old girl. He has also been acquitted of a sex crime against an eight-year-old girl. He has been accused during this inquest of bestiality with two local dogs, and petty theft." (UBM)

Tiny church now at centre of William Tyrrell inquiries

I don’t see it. Imo the pedophile angle doesn’t fit. Not in this case moo

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how all of the circumstantial evidence involving FA weighs up against the circumstantial evidence involving others.

There is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence involving FA. Evidence presented by a significant and varied number of people.

With a definite theory emerging that FA may have taken William away from the area - 275km/300km away.

 

[drsleuth]

“I think the Crabb's testimony has to be given some significant weighting.”
I believe the time the car was heard was “half hr after the C returned home” which was roughly 9:35.So that puts the time of the car they heard in the street to be around 10:05am. If as Ffc states the time W went missing was around 10:30 then I think it’s fairly safe to eliminate that car as being the same car Ffc drove on her way out of Benaroon Dr.
The time estimated by officer Beecroft at the inquest as being the time W disappeared was between 10-10:15am. This time does seem to fit in with the time the C heard the car and I’m sure Detective Beecroft who has invested a great deal of time in this case gave that timeframe for a very good reason

Mr Crabb said he heard the car 10mins after getting home ( got home 09:30-09:35 ) so 09:40 -09:45

Mrs Crabb said 40 mins after getting home so 10:10 - 10:15

 

[JLZ]

Ms Rowley told the court another local man, Iris Northam’s husband, came into her shop and said Abbott was upset because he’d driven a “woman and a little boy” to Tamworth and hadn’t been paid. Mr Northam told her he was concerned it was “related to William Tyrrell”.
Lia Harris Twitter - March 12, 2020 from Taree

Have we heard an approximate date for when this might have happened? Or for when Abbott complained about it? Perhaps he told a false story that he transported a mother to pre-empt a possible report that he was seen with a little boy.

 

[drsleuth]

I wonder how all of the circumstantial evidence involving FA weighs up against the circumstantial evidence involving others.

There is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence involving FA. Evidence presented by a significant and varied number of people.

With a definite theory emerging that FA may have taken William away from the area - 275km/300km away.

True SA.

I also wonder, what FA wrote on that piece of paper, that was handed to the police ( the witness was trying to get name/s out of FA )

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris
Lia Harris

@LiaJHarris


The court heard the man then visited Abbott in jail, where he handed him “two small pieces of paper” with his handwriting on it. He took the paper to police. The court has not been told what was written on them.

 

[Mauig’ma]

I wonder how all of the circumstantial evidence involving FA weighs up against the circumstantial evidence involving others.

There is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence involving FA. Evidence presented by a significant and varied number of people.

With a definite theory emerging that FA may have taken William away from the area - 275km/300km away.

I agree SouthAussie. I too would love to know how the circumstantial evidences weighs up against evidence involving others. But there’s only one poi le are talking about. That’s why le searched recently. To try a different angle or theory with the new developments they have. That’s what the most recent searches have been for. I’m not sure there are too many people who think FA is their guy. I think more people are inclined to think the foster carers is their top suspect (poi). <modsnip>. Le can prove they lied and a lot of other things. We need to see where it goes when ffc & mfc appear in court. I’m anxious to hear more about what’s really the truth. Moo imo

 

[Mauig’ma]

True SA.

I also wonder, what FA wrote on that piece of paper, that was handed to the police ( the witness was trying to get name/s out of FA )

https://twitter.com/LiaJHarris
Lia Harris
@LiaJHarris


The court heard the man then visited Abbott in jail, where he handed him “two small pieces of paper” with his handwriting on it. He took the paper to police. The court has not been told what was written on them.

Whatever he wrote must not have been too relevant. Media would have been all over it otherwise imo

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t see it. Imo the pedophile angle doesn’t fit. Not in this case moo

Abbott is currently in prison for sex offences against three boys, as per this March 2020 article by CO.

William Tyrrell inquest: ‘I didn’t want Frank Abbott near my kids’

 

[SouthAussie]

Have we heard an approximate date for when this might have happened? Or for when Abbott complained about it? Perhaps he told a false story that he transported a mother to pre-empt a possible report that he was seen with a little boy.

I don't see an exact date, but for the Northams to be concerned that he was speaking about William, one would think it would fit the time period.

 

[drsleuth]

Whatever he wrote must not have been too relevant. Media would have been all over it otherwise imo

The media don't know what was written down, it was not revealed that day in court.

 

[drsleuth]

Imo that sounds like it very well be the mfc disposing of William while ffc later disposed something else. Shoe for example. Anything. Moo

How could it have been the MFC???

The MFC is not a POI.