Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Mauig’ma]

Mr Crabb said he heard the car 10mins after getting home ( got home 09:30-09:35 ) so 09:40 -09:45

Mrs Crabb said 40 mins after getting home so 10:10 - 10:15

I love that all of us here are still following the case since day one. And that everyone has different theories of what they think happened. It means we still care and want justice for William. So even though we can agree to disagree, I just want to thank all fellow websleuthers and give each one of you a big thank you! Every time someone posts here it shows we’re not giving up and we’re hopeful. Let’s get justice for William. No one else matters. Not even who took & disposed of him. They’re not worthy <modsnip>!! Imo moo

 

[drsleuth]

Have we heard an approximate date for when this might have happened? Or for when Abbott complained about it? Perhaps he told a false story that he transported a mother to pre-empt a possible report that he was seen with a little boy.

Mr Craddock to IN : " You remembered comment was after WT went missing, probably not till 2016/17"

 

[SouthAussie]

Mr Craddock to IN : " You remembered comment was after WT went missing, probably not till 2016/17"

I wonder when FA was first looked at/interviewed by SFR. If that aligns with the times when FA started making all of these oddly placed comments to the locals.

It may also align with when Jubes first heard about GO which then would likely have led them to looking at FA also.

Perhaps FA didn't know what SFR had on him, so he started his cover stories - of which many people remember various aspects.

 

[Mauig’ma]

JMO - Detectives have now gone back to 'square one' in their handling of the investigation.
NB:

William Tyrrell case: former detective defends previous investigation into boy’s disappearance

Gary Jubelin dismisses criticism that new investigation team ‘inherited a bit of a mess’ as police continue to search two sites

www.theguardian.com

“Gary Jubelin, the retired homicide detective who once led the William Tyrrell case, has defended his previous investigation as the renewed search for the child’s remains continues.

The former detective was responding to criticisms from the state’s current police commissioner, Mick Fuller, that the new investigation team had “inherited what was a bit of a mess”.

Jubelin investigated the case from five months after the then-three-year-old disappeared in September 2014 until he was removed from the case.

William Tyrrell: NSW premier hopeful of breakthrough in case after police seize car in Sydney

He took issue with Fuller’s comments, saying he provided monthly progress reports to his superior officers detailing everything – “what suspects I was targeting, what the future directions were”.

Jubelin said he had formed a friendship with William’s foster parents and believed the foster mother to be “a very decent human being”.

However, he said he “went hard” when investigating the couple.

“I basically ambushed the (foster) parents and then I interrogated the (foster) parents,” he told Sydney radio 2GB on Thursday.”

 

[Chrissy74]

I wonder how all of the circumstantial evidence involving FA weighs up against the circumstantial evidence involving others.

There is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence involving FA. Evidence presented by a significant and varied number of people.

With a definite theory emerging that FA may have taken William away from the area - 275km/300km away.

Yes DrSleuth I couldn’t agree with you more. There was plenty of evidence presented at the inquest by many that without a doubt solidified the fact that FA is a low life criminal who from past and present information about him, quite liked the attention and notoriety he created for himself from having people fear him. And yet not 1 piece of evidence that confirms FA was in Benaroon Drivd that morning of September 12th 2014.
As for RP and this supposed drive with FA and a child the day after W disappeared, cctv photos were released showing RP car passing the Kew southbound camera on the morning of September 13. Was the car travelling in the direction of Logan’s Crossing where FA was living at the time? We also know that FA had court hearings in Grafton and several other locations for sexual assault charges do we know the dates for those hearings? What We do know as fact is that RP was at the PM hospital on the day and at the time W disappeared.

 

[Mauig’ma]

How could it have been the MFC???

The MFC is not a POI.

Just because he’s not an official poi doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been him imo

 

[JLZ]

Just because he’s not an official poi doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been him imo

No, but if he was in Lakewood from shortly after 9 until 10:19, how was he operating a car in Benaroon Drive between 9:40 and 10:15?

 

[Chrissy74]

No, but if he was in Lakewood from shortly after 9 until 10:19, how was he operating a car in Benaroon Drive between 9:40 and 10:15?

Why do mobile phone pings at 9:30am in and around Benaroon Drive suggest otherwise? Not that I’m suggesting Mfc was there at the time but a POI is within the scope of a person at least having knowledge of a crime and for that reason and my opinion that Ws disappearance was planned by the ff I believe mfc is a POI

 

[JLZ]

Why do mobile phone pings at 9:30am in and around Benaroon Drive suggest otherwise? Not that I’m suggesting Mfc was there at the time but a POI is within the scope of a person at least having knowledge of a crime and for that reason and my opinion that Ws disappearance was planned by the ff I believe mfc is a POI

I would very much like more detail about why the phone is alleged to have left at 9:30. I suspect it's a misinterpretation of the data. There was a post fairly recently (which I can't find) that said CCTV showed MFC in Lakewood 'when he said he was'; and if that's the case--as opposed to showing him there for a part of that time, for example at the pharmacy--then I think the CCTV trumps the phone claim. But I don't remember seeing a link about the CCTV.

 

[Chrissy74]

Why do mobile phone pings at 9:30am in and around Benaroon Drive suggest otherwise? Not that I’m suggesting Mfc was there at the time but a POI is within the scope of a person at least having knowledge of a crime and for that reason and my opinion that Ws disappearance was planned by the ff I believe mfc is a POI

I would very much like more detail about why the phone is alleged to have left at 9:30. I suspect it's a misinterpretation of the data. There was a post fairly recently (which I can't find) that said CCTV showed MFC in Lakewood 'when he said he was'; and if that's the case--as opposed to showing him there for a part of that time, for example at the pharmacy--then I think the CCTV trumps the phone claim. But I don't remember seeing a link about the CCTV.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

 

[Couldbe]

I would very much like more detail about why the phone is alleged to have left at 9:30. I suspect it's a misinterpretation of the data. There was a post fairly recently (which I can't find) that said CCTV showed MFC in Lakewood 'when he said he was'; and if that's the case--as opposed to showing him there for a part of that time, for example at the pharmacy--then I think the CCTV trumps the phone claim. But I don't remember seeing a link about the CCTV.

Could MFC have:

..... possibly conducted his Conference Meeting (which was on his Laptop in his vehicle) at a place other than Lakewood?

.... and may then have proceeded to the Pharmacy in Lakewood for his Script.
The Lakewood Pharmacy doesn't open on a Friday until 9am.
MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I would very much like more detail about why the phone is alleged to have left at 9:30. I suspect it's a misinterpretation of the data. There was a post fairly recently (which I can't find) that said CCTV showed MFC in Lakewood 'when he said he was'; and if that's the case--as opposed to showing him there for a part of that time, for example at the pharmacy--then I think the CCTV trumps the phone claim. But I don't remember seeing a link about the CCTV.

The first article to say that was (no surprise) the DM. News.com then (several hours later) reprinted that 9:30 information.

The article also linked by Chrissy above (by JFY of the DT) says nothing at all about 9:30 mobile phone records, or the FD leaving the house. It is the article that states that .... "Metadata has confirmed the photograph was indeed taken at that time after questions during the inquest into William’s disappearance that it may have been taken two hours earlier."

I too think the DM journo has printed an error (he is not a typical reporter of this case and may be unfamiliar) and News.com ran with the error on the same day (no journo put their name to the News.com article in the byline, it is blank).
Also, absolutely no source was given for that information.

I think it is a physical impossibility for FD to have been in his GoTo Meeting from 9:17am for 39 minutes, and have left the FGM's house at 9:30am.

imo

 

[JLZ]

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...d/news-story/6983c0a44392f8599514e4b5c8a56f04

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

Thanks Chrissy. I didn't mean I wanted a link to back up what you said about the mobile phone. I meant I want more information about the type of data that was used to draw the conclusion that the phone left FGM's at that time. It just isn't out there. If we could see MFC's phone records, for example, or if they could say, it's not pings, it's such-and-such type of tracking. But about the CCTV, I believe somebody, recently, talked about CCTV at the location at which he said he did his conference in Lakewood. Does anyone know of a link for that?--or did it come from someone who attended the inquest? Perhaps I misunderstood.

 

[Chrissy74]

The first article to say that was (no surprise) the DM. News.com then (several hours later) reprinted that 9:30 information.

The article also linked by Chrissy above (by JFY of the DT) says nothing at all about 9:30 mobile phone records, or the FD leaving the house. It is the article that states that .... "Metadata has confirmed the photograph was indeed taken at that time after questions during the inquest into William’s disappearance that it may have been taken two hours earlier."

I too think the DM journo has printed an error (he is not a typical reporter of this case and may be unfamiliar) and News.com ran with the error on the same day (no journo put their name to the News.com article in the byline, it is blank).
Also, absolutely no source was given for that information.

I think it is a physical impossibility for FD to have been in his GoTo Meeting from 9:17am for 39 minutes, and have left the FGM's house at 9:30am.

imo

DailyMail
At 9.30am, the foster father leaves his mother-in-law's home, verified by tracking on his phone.

News.com.au
news.com.au - LinkedIn
(It has been operating for nearly 21 years. The editorial team works tirelessly to bring readers the best of Australian and world news every day - owning news ...)
Mobile phone records have shown that William’s foster father left his mother-in-law’s home in Kendall at 9.30am on Friday, September 12, 2014.

The other article from Daily telegraph is paywalled.

Can you pls share the article that states mfc go2meeting was in Lakewood and from 9:17am and lasted 39min . Thank you

 

[Chrissy74]

Thanks Chrissy. I didn't mean I wanted a link to back up what you said about the mobile phone. I meant I want more information about the type of data that was used to draw the conclusion that the phone left FGM's at that time. It just isn't out there. If we could see MFC's phone records, for example, or if they could say, it's not pings, it's such-and-such type of tracking. But about the CCTV, I believe somebody, recently, talked about CCTV at the location at which he said he did his conference in Lakewood. Does anyone know of a link for that?--or did it come from someone who attended the inquest? Perhaps I misunderstood.

That’s why I posted the links JLZ. The articles clearly state “phone tracking and phone records”. Self explanatory really. the so called cctv of mfc in Lakewood is only something that’s been mentioned but can’t recall it ever being backed up with a “link”. A link to back up this claim would be handy

 

[Chrissy74]

Thanks Chrissy. I didn't mean I wanted a link to back up what you said about the mobile phone. I meant I want more information about the type of data that was used to draw the conclusion that the phone left FGM's at that time. It just isn't out there. If we could see MFC's phone records, for example, or if they could say, it's not pings, it's such-and-such type of tracking. But about the CCTV, I believe somebody, recently, talked about CCTV at the location at which he said he did his conference in Lakewood. Does anyone know of a link for that?--or did it come from someone who attended the inquest? Perhaps I misunderstood.

These articles are no different to any other articles in that they provide limited and conflicting information , hence why the discussions on this platform which are based around these reports go back and forth and round and round. Not that I’m criticising the media for their reporting on this case in fact quite the opposite but in situations that are governed by rules such as suppression orders, it clearly has an impact on what information we receive and how we receive it. This is why my most recent posts have been links in which the ff are the ones telling their story, so no middle man to confuse things. When I listen to the ff retelling their story of what happened that morning it becomes a lot easier to distinguish fact from fiction. Unless the so called facts being told are in fact fiction. Get me

 

[JLZ]

That’s why I posted the links JLZ. The articles clearly state “phone tracking and phone records”. Self explanatory really. the so called cctv of mfc in Lakewood is only something that’s been mentioned but can’t recall it ever being backed up with a “link”. A link to back up this claim would be handy

I don't find it self-explanatory. One article says phone tracking and the other says phone records. Same thing? Different thing? The person who originally made the claim (one of the book authors I think) read a record wrong? (For example I was looking at a set of records a couple of months ago and thought it indicated something but it turned out I was looking at the wrong day.) A while back somebody posted an article about analysing phone location data. Apparently there are levels or types of analysis which give different degrees of accuracy and precision. We don't know what type of data has been used and we don't know the kind of analysis.

 

[Curiouskatz11]

If MFC was not a POI before, he must be by now even if not formally named. Charged by Unsolved Homicide for providing false and misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission.

Secret recordings to be played at hearing as William Tyrrell's foster father denies giving false evidence

The foster father of missing boy William Tyrrell faces a two-day hearing in court after pleading not guilty to two charges of knowingly giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Chrissy74]

If MFC was not a POI before, he must be by now even if not formally named. Charged by Unsolved Homicide for providing false and misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission.

Secret recordings to be played at hearing as William Tyrrell's foster father denies giving false evidence

The foster father of missing boy William Tyrrell faces a two-day hearing in court after pleading not guilty to two charges of knowingly giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.abc.net.au

Thanks CC11. Has there been any information previously posted as to why the mfc was charged by a detective from the unsolved homicide squad if the charge itself apparently has no connection to Ws disappearance?
It does look promising that detectives are on the right track

 

[Megnut]

Just throwing this out there:

Do we know for certain that the foster father was parked for the duration of his work call? Might he have been driving for a portion of it if, say, he was running behind schedule?

The deleted texts, perhaps those texts were exchanged that morning, between the foster parents. (Maybe she deleted hers while parked where the driver saw her and he deleted his while in the bathroom.)

The foster grandmother seemed to think the foster father already knew Wm was missing when he arrived, and deleted texts might explain that. I don't think he's responsible for Wm's disappearance, full stop. Maybe he lied about what he knew and when he knew it.

I think that the mystery car/s heard by neighbors were most logically the foster family cars (in particular the foster grandma's car, driven by the foster mother). Perhaps she returned from her drive, but before turning in, headed back out. Perhaps realizing she had something else to discard. In other words, she could've driven straight to the foster grandma's drive, paused, made the U-turn and headed back out to get rid of, say, Wm's shoes, and it was this leg of her journey where the other driver encountered her. (And that could mean that the first leg of that journey could've been in a different direction altogether. One where no one saw her, or came forward with information about.)

JMO