Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #12

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Was having a read of this journal article.
Interesting read.
Gave me a better understanding of the between dates.

Responding to Historical Child Sexual Abuse : A prosecution perspective on current challenges and future direction.

Proving dates can then become a focus of the trial, rather than certainty about the
offending conduct. Why must this be so?
A regular step in a prosecution for historical child sexual abuse charges is an application
by the Crown to amend the indictment. Typically, a historical offence is charged ‘between
dates’. That means that the complainant is unable to nominate the precise date upon which
an offence occurred, so the Crown expresses two dates between which the offence is alleged
to have occurred.
It is rare that a victim can say ‘on my 12th birthday’ an offence happened.
It is much more likely to be something along the lines of ‘when I was in 4th class and Mrs
Dyers was my teacher [an offence] happened’. Depending on the charge, the date or date
range asserted can be something that must itself be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Such a
charge is known as a charge where ‘time is of the essence’.
Such charges generally contain the age of the victim as an element of the offence.
For other charges, the dates are merely a
particular and need not be proved beyond reasonable doubt.
During a trial, it is not uncommon for there to be refinement of the dates of offending or
even a significant change in the evidence about when the offending occurred. The Crown
cannot then simply amend the dates specified in the indictment without the Court’s leave or
the accused’s consent (Criminal Procedure Act 1986 (NSW) ss 20–21).
An application to do so must be made and it is rare that the accused consents.
Many applications are refused, leading to a directed verdict of acquittal on that particular count.
A typical example might be
that a complainant has remembered an offence as happening when they were 14 years old
and living at Starling Street in a house with a pool. Late in the trial, the accused produces
records showing that the pool was built at Starling Street when the victim was in fact
15 years old (then a different offence, given the change in the victim’s age). Clearly, the
complainant was mistaken and the offence actually occurred a year later. The defence is
usually ‘I didn’t do it’ and not ‘I did it in 1986, not 1985’. Notwithstanding this, if satisfied
that an offence fell outside the range of dates specified in the indictment, time is of the
essence for that offence, and leave to amend the indictment is refused, then the trial judge
will direct a verdict of not guilty. Is this fair and just? An offender typically encourages, if
not in reality forces, a child not to complain (Craven, Brown and Gilchrist 2006:295). Time
passes and the child, now an adult, cannot remember if the accused had sexual intercourse
with them at age 14 or 15. Why should the offender be able to escape punishment even
though a jury may have been satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the offending conduct
did occur?
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/CICrimJust/2014/13.pdf
 
I'm shocked he got out!! When will the courts take a stand & send a msg that these sick people who hurt children will not be tolerated.i understand not guilty to proven, but they should of gone over the medical evidence from a sexual abuse specialist to pin point more accurate when the abuse happened. Before just letting people out on bail.
Let's hope bill can't help but try and contact some old friends, and hopefully lead us to william.
 
Had a weird feeling this might happen, hopefully all this is a step closer to finding William but I must say I'm having doubts about that :-(
 
Very interesting Soso.

The medical reports would surely state if the injuries were fresh or older determining when the incident happened... I would hope so anyways.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Had a weird feeling this might happen, hopefully all this is a step closer to finding William but I must say I'm having doubts about that :-(
That is what I keep telling myself. Maybe BS fearing he will face jail time on the historical charges will use this time and go and cross his t's on Williams whereabouts to avoid getting even more jail time, leading police to him. Wishful thinking I guess.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
This was the bail application.
I guess we have learned what the BS defence will be.
What do the prosecution have?
I wonder if JH has been asked anything in relation to the victims either back in 1987 or even more recently.
I mean it seems he is being implicated by team BS.
imo
 
BS may be of more "use" to the investigation of missing WT being out on bail. Hopefully he will be watched like a hawk and any form of contact with anybody will be monitored/watched. With the connection to and him trying to blame Hillsley I am sure many people in and out of jail will be feeling the pressure. BBM
 
That's interesting that one of the victims remembered nothing about the incident. I'm guessing that would be the child who was 3 at the time. In a way it's a good thing that they can't remember the incident.

Has this been reported in MSM ....I didn't think there had been any victim statements given yet in court or media?
 
Airlie Walsh ‏@AirlieWalsh 1m1 minute ago

Court hears assurity from Spedding's wife that if granted bail "no children will reside or visit" their home. #9news
2 retweets 0 favorites
Gil Taylor ‏@873gt 1m1 minute ago

Judge tells the court one of the victims remembers nothing of the alleged incidents regarding Bill Spedding who's accused of child rape

Remembers nothing of the alleged incidences - does that mean details .. dates, location etc. or the actual act?
 
This was the bail application.
I guess we have learned what the BS defence will be.
What do the prosecution have?
I wonder if JH has been asked anything in relation to the victims either back in 1987 or even more recently.
I mean it seems he is being implicated by team BS.
imo
I wonder if JH would give valuable info on BS to the prosecution....Thinking he won't be too happy with BS trying to put blame onto him. So who did BS try to spin the blame on when it happened in 87?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
There is no dispute the girls were abused ... just who did it.

It find it hard to believe that JH would not have been checked out back in 1987 given his history.
Crown prosecutor Rose Sharma said Hillsley was in prison on other offences around the time the assaults on the three and six-year-old girls occurred. Hillsley was never charged over these allegations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html
 
Police back then may have thought, well JH is serving out a sentence for the next 2 years, so they just left it at that. I do wonder if BS offered him up at the time as a suspect. From the way RS spoke in previous articles, I would say that is likely.
There is no dispute the girls were abused ... just who did it.

It find it hard to believe that JH would not have been checked out back in 1987 given his history.
Crown prosecutor Rose Sharma said Hillsley was in prison on other offences around the time the assaults on the three and six-year-old girls occurred. Hillsley was never charged over these allegations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html
 
Sadly, ((guessing on my part)), DNA swabs, and definitive ''age'' of injuries may not have been enough for good case against BS.

There could have been a '''lag''' time between the incident and mother being made aware of the injuries ((guessing)) ---- hopefully medical savvy WSrs could attest to this possibility.
 
hopefully during the july hearing/case we learn more about the pring bs is involved in and if any other relatives are involved and what link there may be to william, i still feel hes protecting someone.
its nearly little williams birthday, i wonder if the perp knows this, hope police have eyes and ears everywhere!
 
Police back then may have thought, well JH is serving out a sentence for the next 2 years, so they just left it at that. I do wonder if BS offered him up at the time as a suspect. From the way RS spoke in previous articles, I would say that is likely.

I have a sneaking suspicion he would have frogwell, given he was being investigated. imo

There is evidence of other adult offenders who are complicit in similar sex offences both independently and in conjunction with the accused in this matter , police facts sheet said.
"Investigations are continuing concerning such matters and it is anticipated further charges will brought against the accused in the foreseeable future."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html
 
I just pray that this hasn't just been a matter of LE shaking the tree and hoping something falls out in terms of William's case. Almost a year on and not a single other person named as a poi? That worries me
 
So the paedophile ring that police have referred too is regarding the historical charges and not related to wt or are they alleging bs was involved in one back then and now? I'm a bit confused on this
 
So the paedophile ring that police have referred too is regarding the historical charges and not related to wt or are they alleging bs was involved in one back then and now? I'm a bit confused on this

Police have been really subtle in that they've claimed wt may have been taken by a ring but they're always quick to say bs historical charges aren't related to wt. You could easily connect the dots but it still begs the question why haven't they charged anyone else?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
3,073
Total visitors
3,202

Forum statistics

Threads
604,650
Messages
18,174,867
Members
232,782
Latest member
Abk018
Back
Top