Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #12

[bearbear]

According to court documents, Mr Spedding asked an alleged victim to sign a declaration about his “good character” after learning police were investigating him over William’s disappearance.

He contacted one of his alleged victims, who is now an adult, “directly lobbying” her to declare he did not sexually abuse her when she was a child, according to police facts tendered in court.


why would he need to do this if he hadnt sexually abused her?
interesting what the victorian investigation unearths?


Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.

However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.

Police say they expect to lay more charges alleging other child sex offenders acted “independently of and in conjunction with”Spedding.

Victorian Police were also investigating allegations against Spedding.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

 

[sosocurious]

So the paedophile ring that police have referred too is regarding the historical charges and not related to wt or are they alleging bs was involved in one back then and now? I'm a bit confused on this

Well they have said a paedo ring operating near Kendall.
I am assuming then and now and all the way in between. imo

 

[Pink-flamingo]

The court will not determine that BS is innocent beyond reasonable doubt. Prosecution need to prove that BS is guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

If the medical evidence is correct then there is no doubt that these girls were sexually abused. But a young child nominating a person as the perpetrator is not definitive proof of the guilt of that person. Children are notoriously susceptible to influence. Read this UK High Court judgment about two children claiming to have witnessed satanic cults:

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/gareeva-dearman-2015.pdf

I am not suggesting that the children have lied about the perpetrator or that the mother forced them to lie. It could have been as simple as a mother, on seeing evidence of abuse, asking the girls "It was Bill, wasn't it?" If small kids have been threatened and another "offender" is suggested, then it is a very easy out to blame another person. And then that belief becomes so ingrained that the girls genuine believe the offender was Bill. This is not wild speculation on my part. This is a phenomenon that is widely acknowledge in psychology and also in the courts, where evidence of young children usually requires corroboration.

This was clearly a dysfunctional family where a convicted child sex offender was allowed to live with young children. I'm pretty sure that, upon discovering abuse, the mother did not leave the questioning of the girls to experts trained in appropriate questioning of young children. I am positive that, intentionally or unintentionally, the girls had suggestions put to them, especially if a mother just could not contemplate or comprehend that her brother had molested her children.

BS may be guilty. He may be innocent. I don't know. But the fact that the girls were very young and may have been subject to suggestion, they living with a known child offender at around the same time, I think is reasonable doubt as to the guilt of BS. Unless there is medical evidence that excludes H as a possible offender due to him being in prison, then prosecution do not have a very strong case against BS.

My opinion only.

Thanks. You have clearly articulated what I tried to a few pages back.

 

[sosocurious]

According to court documents, Mr Spedding asked an alleged victim to sign a declaration about his “good character” after learning police were investigating him over William’s disappearance.

He contacted one of his alleged victims, who is now an adult, “directly lobbying” her to declare he did not sexually abuse her when she was a child, according to police facts tendered in court.


why would he need to do this if he hadnt sexually abused her?
interesting what the victorian investigation unearths?


Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.

However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.

Police say they expect to lay more charges alleging other child sex offenders acted “independently of and in conjunction with”Spedding.

Victorian Police were also investigating allegations against Spedding.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

Yeah bear - why would you need to ask someone to declare that.
I mean how many people do you lobby for that declaration ... only the ones you have. :sick:

 

[frogwell]

According to court documents, Mr Spedding asked an alleged victim to sign a declaration about his “good character” after learning police were investigating him over William’s disappearance.

He contacted one of his alleged victims, who is now an adult, “directly lobbying” her to declare he did not sexually abuse her when she was a child, according to police facts tendered in court.


why would he need to do this if he hadnt sexually abused her?
interesting what the victorian investigation unearths?


Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.

However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.

Police say they expect to lay more charges alleging other child sex offenders acted “independently of and in conjunction with”Spedding.

Victorian Police were also investigating allegations against Spedding.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

I think he did it, because the kids in his care were taken away and I think he thought it would be a way to clear this business once and for all if she just wrote a statement. The historical allegations were obviously on the table with Docs at the time MS grandkids were removed from BS care

 

[Pink-flamingo]

A few thoughts:
- Paedophile ring could be simply that they know that Spedding knew Hillslie
- "Passing to another man" could mean that Spedding dropped the girls home (where Hillslie lived) after his weekends with them.
- "Independently and in conjunction with" implies that Spedding and Hillslie both abused these girls.

The girls have decided to raise this case about Spedding after all of these years. I wonder if they also have anything to say about Hillsie?

I was also wondering... if one of the victim has no memory of this case, does that mean she isnt actively pursuing it? Is it more the other victim?

And another question.. perhaps to the legal people among us: does it have to be that the vistims are driving this at all? Could it be that a simple crime stoppers call has promoted this, and that the case is going ahead whether the victims want it or not?

 

[sosocurious]

I think he did it, because the kids in his care were taken away and I think he thought it would be a way to clear this business once and for all if she just wrote a statement. The historical allegations were obviously on the table with Docs at the time MS grandkids were removed from BS care

According to court documents, Mr Spedding asked an alleged victim to sign a declaration about his “good character” after learning police were investigating him over William’s disappearance.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

So why wait until he knew he was being investigated in regard to Williams disappearance?
He had been investigated by both facs and the police back in 1987.
Docs would have been aware no action was taken by police ... it could be assumed.
I do wonder if the historical investigation is all that facs were interested in back in December. jmo

 

[sleepinoz]

I don't think the younger girl has ever stated that she remembered being abused. From this statement back in April I think the accusations are solely coming from Mum and the elder of the two girls.

I think BS has known this and this is the reason he asked her to give a statement saying it never happened. Intimidation maybe :shame:

Spedding allegedly sexually assaulted the six-year-old girl before she fought him off and ended up on the floor, police facts state.

The girl has allegedly since told police she then cried and kept her head down as Spedding subjected the three-year-old to a series of sexual assaults.

The three-year-old was examined at a child sexual assault unit in May 1987 with a doctor finding injuries consistent with “penetrating and sexual assault”, the facts state.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

 

[Angeline]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-19/william-spedding-granted-bail-in-supreme-court/6558628

But the crown prosecutor told the court the "known paedophile", who cannot be named for legal reasons, could not have committed the assaults as he was in prison at the time.

"Cannot be named..." Talk about locking the gate after the horse has bolted. :facepalm:

 

[newone]

I don't think the younger girl has ever stated that she remembered being abused. From this statement back in April I think the accusations are solely coming from Mum and the elder of the two girls.

I think BS has known this and this is the reason he asked her to give a statement saying it never happened. Intimidation maybe :shame:



http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...th-bill-spedding/story-fns0kb1g-1227322744804

I feel badly for those kids (now adults) and I really hope they got a lot of loving support and counselling over the years.

 

[Cleaver Greene]

He contacted one of his alleged victims, who is now an adult, “directly lobbying” her to declare he did not sexually abuse her when she was a child, according to police facts tendered in court.


why would he need to do this if he hadnt sexually abused her?

[/url]

Because police have questioned him about the disappearance about a little boy and are obviously aware of the historical allegations. He has had these allegations raised again, despite police not proceeding 30 years ago. He is not a savvy/clever man and believes that by getting a statement from these girls, police will accept that he has no criminal background to warrant their suspicion.

It is very easy to sit in our comfortable lives and assume guilt based on what we consider to be suspicious or foolish behaviour. However, having worked in industry dealing with these issues for several years, I can assure you all that there is a world of lifestyles out there that are beyond the comprehension of middle class Australia.

For every behaviour someone this forum considers evidence of proof of BS's guilt, there is an alternative explanation, equally consistent with a genuine but naive attempt to prove his innocence.

 

[Kyja]

Has anyone been able to work out when or if bs lived in Victoria?

 

[sosocurious]

Because police have questioned him about the disappearance about a little boy and are obviously aware of the historical allegations. He has had these allegations raised again, despite police not proceeding 30 years ago. He is not a savvy/clever man and believes that by getting a statement from these girls, police will accept that he has no criminal background to warrant their suspicion.

It is very easy to sit in our comfortable lives and assume guilt based on what we consider to be suspicious or foolish behaviour. However, having worked in industry dealing with these issues for several years, I can assure you all that there is a world of lifestyles out there that are beyond the comprehension of middle class Australia.

For every behaviour someone this forum considers evidence of proof of BS's guilt, there is an alternative explanation, equally consistent with a genuine but naive attempt to prove his innocence.

Foolish and suspicious behaviour...maybe.
The coincidences in relation to BS .. in both the disappearance of William and the historical abuse charges are rather hard to ignore.
Sly and cunning ... maybe. :judge:
imo

 

[Thetruth11:11]

Foolish and suspicious behaviour...maybe.
The coincidences in relation to BS .. in both the disappearance of William and the historical abuse charges are rather hard to ignore.
Sly and cunning ... maybe. :judge:
imo

agree soso
Where's there smoke there's fire. Statistically he must be very unlucky to be accused/poi in both crimes.

 

[Wexford]

Has anyone been able to work out when or if bs lived in Victoria?

No but the AUSTLII doc that was posted here yesterday regarding JH mentioned an incident involving JH in Wagga court (pronounced Wogger for those not from Aus). It struck me as it is an area I have visited a few times and it is right on the Vic NSW border (although in NSW) so it makes me think if you lived near the border and committed crimes you could either be considered to be in Vic or NSW by only a few minutes I guess. May not be related but just something that caught my eye.

 

[Amee]

The allegations against Mr Spedding were investigated in 1987 by the NSW Department of Family and Community Services, who referred the case to the police, but no action was taken, the court heard.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ex-abuse-charges/story-e6frg6nf-1227405576193

 

[sosocurious]

Justice Bellow said that, while the allegations were serious and there was medical evidence to support the victims' injury claims, there was still a question as to who attacked the girls.

"[There is a] real issue that either or both victims have been coached or cajoled into making the allegations that they make," Justice Bellow said.

"It is difficult to accept the Crown case is strong in circumstances where, as I have pointed out, that one of the victims has no recollection at all about the incident," Justice Bellow said.
Coached and cajoled .. no recollection. :thinking:
imo

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bill-sped...-over-child-sex-offences-20150619-ghry1m.html

 

[Wexford]

The allegations against Mr Spedding were investigated in 1987 by the NSW Department of Family and Community Services, who referred the case to the police, but no action was taken, the court heard.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ex-abuse-charges/story-e6frg6nf-1227405576193

The world was a different place in 1987. I was 18/19 then and well educated and I doubt I even knew the word 'paedophile'. I cant stress enough how valuable the establishment of the Wood Royal Commission was in 1995 (some 8 years after these historic charges). If you read up on it (and even Wikipaedia actually does some of the story justice) it tells of why it was established including the investigations into the underworld and police corruption. Alongside these investigations which were also portrayed in the series Underbelly, the WRC investigated allegations of collusion between paedophile networks and members of LE (incl. high ranked ones), judges, media, politics, medical profession.
As I said, the world was a different place back then and it is hard to equate how things would have been handled back then to how they would be handled now.

 

[alreetlike]

I had a feeling he would be granted bail. While I'd love for him to go straight ahead and do something that would lead to William while he's back out.. I can't see him being so stupid.

 

[Armchairdetectiv]

I have been at work all day, so madly trying to catch up on this!! I must admit that I am surprised he got bail.

Wasn't there a talk last thread about someone doing a nudie run if he got bail?? lol

I wonder how the community will react to him being released?? People who live in the same street or town with young children.