Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #21

[purpleandgreen]

BBM Complicated family history and lots of unknown players.

Not impossible but I do think its improbable. The children used and abused by pedophiles in this way are nearly always connected to them in some way. Statistically it's just such an outlier for it to be both a planned abduction and a stranger abduction, especially given the location and the apparently very short time WT was unwatched. Almost impossible.

There has to be stuff we don't know. Neighbours involved. Grandmother who talked to the wrong people and gave them too much info. People who knew people who talked to people.

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[Eloise]

BBM Complicated family history and lots of unknown players.

Exactly... most of which we can't talk about here due to TOS or simply because that info just isn't out there. Much of what was on SM in the earlier days - if it was allowed by WS TOS - has been shut down so it could only be referred to in past tense.

 

[purpleandgreen]

Exactly, yes. Gives a lot of credence and possibilities to crabby's avenues of thought. All planned; just waiting for the opportunity. If bio family had visitation rights they would be informed of all possible movements. Then there's that whole social network - a huge footprint of knowledge that keeps multiplying very, very quickly with Social Media.

Exactly... most of which we can't talk about here due to TOS or simply because that info just isn't out there. Much of what was on SM in the earlier days - if it was allowed by WS TOS - has been shut down so it could only be referred to in past tense.

 

[Wexford]

What intrigues me, is 60 year old men being so sexually orientated. I don't know paedophile psych, so I presume some children are abducted because they are manipulated without being caught? Where as abduction of older victims means higher risk of conviction. Obviously some predators have a liking for young children which I dont really understand as well.
But there must be more than just men liking children. This is why children like Kandles may have been killed as they get to school etc when they can be discovered and tell their story also?

I don't think it was a chance abduction, and what do I do now. Everything was in place, which roads to use, where to go, and all the things I don't really want to think about. And any other strategy that happens in these situations. All planned at different levels.

I don't think it was, oh, I have a child in my car, what do I do now! Real predators have infrastructure in place.

Im no expert, but it strikes me that if you have the contacts there is also money to be made regardless of if you still have the sexual desire. And the desire for money does not seem to have an age limit.

 

[bearbear]

Judy Wilson, whose fence sits just 10m from where William was taken, heard him and his sister playing earlier that morning before she headed into town to run some errands.
When she returned, the street was in chaos.
“I wasn’t home and my husband wasn’t home. The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.
“I don’t think it was an opportunistic grab from someone who just happened to be here *because we don’t get strangers wandering around.”
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...193b5f6731f74c

 

[krig101]

Im no expert, but it strikes me that if you have the contacts there is also money to be made regardless of if you still have the sexual desire. And the desire for money does not seem to have an age limit.

Very good point!

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[crabstick]

Interesting point. And we established earlier, with a 100 unowned phones you could take pictures and send them via WIFI (without a SIM) at say a cafe, then dump the phone in the trash after etc,
So yes, money to be made with the right contacts.

Or view illegal websites via WIFI on that phone, then dump the phone. There is so many apps now that are encrypted to communicate. The traditional text etc is dead really when it comes to avoiding police detection.

While having a computer with deleted images is not a smart idea, having disposable phones is essentially throwing the computer away each time.
Deleted is not deleted on computers. Most the time, it is only the pointer that is deleted.

Im no expert, but it strikes me that if you have the contacts there is also money to be made regardless of if you still have the sexual desire. And the desire for money does not seem to have an age limit.

 

[crabstick]

So true, Benaroo is a Bermuda triangle, but I don't think metadata is stored unless a 'call' is made. If you make a call on other phones, then it would not relate to your ID. If police are watching you then sure, your tower pops up when you pull a signal.
From memory though, Williams father had tried to make a call at 'that' time. Some of these areas go live under certain conditions. I wonder if police checked landlines in the street 48 hours prior? Williams father went to do some face time? He would have been wanting mobile-data which is less consistent than talk.

Did someone see Wiliams father leave? Or they had just seen he wasn't there? Had they asked if he was coming back? All variables that might put someone closer to the scene, or exclude them from the scene. How did they not know Dans father was not there? That's an incredible risk to take.

Have police taken a log file on the local WIFI cafe visited?

It is baffling when you see from where it was he vanished. It’s bewildering, too, in this era of electronic footprints, when a person’s phone is their personal tracker, that someone can disappear without a trace and nobody, or no machine, has seen a thing.

This comment has always stuck in my head.

As we stand on the road, the policeman invites us to draw conclusions. If William had been “playing chase-ies” with his sister, where would he run? It is unlikely that a three year old would run up a steep hill. The logical place is down hill, in full view of the house.
This article day 20 Sept 2014 and it does not seem that opinion has not changed when listening to Det Jubelin.

I wonder sometimes if William and his sister were playing chasey and she did indeed run in and go to the toilet and when she returned to continue her game ... wheres William and the search began.
imo

 

[crabstick]

Ha, that should have been William not Daniel. Been away from the thread a while.

So that is another coincidence, that Williams father was there, but the crime happened when Williams father wasn't there. Coincidence? Or someone was watching?

What was the time lapse between Williams father leaving, and the abduction occurring?

So you have a bag of phones left over at your shut down pawn shop, that you haven't sold, but for some reason you have kept them? Whats the value of the mobile phones? Why have you kept the mobile phones, not one, like 100? You have a mattress upstairs the pawn shop. Really need to see that to gain perspective I guess.

A pawn shop with desperate people coming in. Talk about liason and distribution centre. Meet n greet

 

[crabstick]

We have to have these debates.

Perth has just had a bloke walk up and take two children, well, lure two children from a daycare. Only busted when they caught him on home surveillance which is probably pretty low on the spectrum at Benaroo drive. Maybe not any more. I have a feeling he was already going back in to prison because he took a lot of risks.

I forgot to add, a POI had a job where by, he entered peoples homes. He could potentially scope out an entire strategy. Viewing points etc. From memory only the back door was used in this case by the repair man? If you were that way inclined, this was the job for you.
So where was scrap metal guy taking his scrap metal?

Once in court they DPP might crack him like an egg

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/p...-perth-child-sex-assault-20160420-gobf04.html

How many under school age kids on the street and where do they live? I don't think there were any down that end of the street.

I think there has to be a more personal element in this abduction if that is indeed what happened to WT. I don't think I can give this lot too much credit. They're not that slick.

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[Eloise]

Exactly, yes. Gives a lot of credence and possibilities to crabby's avenues of thought. All planned; just waiting for the opportunity. If bio family had visitation rights they would be informed of all possible movements. Then there's that whole social network - a huge footprint of knowledge that keeps multiplying very, very quickly with Social Media.

I know there was at least one connection of note between two Facebook profiles that I think someone from here found and they were going to notify Crimestoppers.
Someone connected with Bill Spedding (can't remember if it was him or his wife or who) was FB friends with someone connected to WT's bio family.
Of course, people make FB friends for lots of different reasons. Maybe they gave each other virtual cows. Who knows

 

[crabstick]

Maybe they used an app in an encrypted garden to talk. Digital cows, maybe lots em them.

If I had a bag of phones, and I was desperate, I would flog em. If they weren't worth anything, Id bin them. Especially if I was doing dodge

I know there was at least one connection of note between two Facebook profiles that I think someone from here found and they were going to notify Crimestoppers.
Someone connected with Bill Spedding (can't remember if it was him or his wife or who) was FB friends with someone connected to WT's bio family.
Of course, people make FB friends for lots of different reasons. Maybe they gave each other virtual cows. Who knows

 

[richieswan]

Maybe they used an app in an encrypted garden to talk. Digital cows, maybe lots em them.

If I had a bag of phones, and I was desperate, I would flog em. If they weren't worth anything, Id bin them. Especially if I was doing dodge

If I were to chuck a phone, I'd throw it in a deep and salty river so the components rust. Bridge, jetty?

 

[Warshawski]

BBM. And William apparently disappeared shortly after at about 10:30am, over an hour later. IMO those two cars belonged to residents in, or visitors to Benaroon Drive and had nothing to do with William's disappearance. Why would two would-be child abductors park their cars in a street with the windows down? If they were intending to abduct a child you'd think they would have the windows closed to lesson the sound of any cries or screams from the child when they grabbed him and took off. Why also would they be parked where they allegedly were for so long if they were up to no good? This would only draw attention to themselves and their vehicles. I've seen it so many times where residents or visitors will park their cars with the windows down, without a care in the world, especially in a quiet and supposedly safe neighbourhood. It's not something that a would-be abductor would do IMO.

yes, I'm with you on all that Makara - however, the BIG question is "why haven't the occupants of these cars come forward, if only to remove them from the equation?"

Surely there is no way they can plead ignorance, isn't everyone aware of this tragic occurrence?

If I was in that vicinity, and certainly if I was across the road, I would be asking to speak with the Investigators so they could pump me for any little bit of anything that may seem inconsequential to me, but may happen to be the missing piece in the puzzle.

Were they parked outside the house that was quickly sold?
Was the house perhaps already on the market and one car belonged to Real Estate & other to prospective buyer ?

 

[Makara]

yes, I'm with you on all that Makara - however, the BIG question is "why haven't the occupants of these cars come forward, if only to remove them from the equation?"

Surely there is no way they can plead ignorance, isn't everyone aware of this tragic occurrence?

If I was in that vicinity, and certainly if I was across the road, I would be asking to speak with the Investigators so they could pump me for any little bit of anything that may seem inconsequential to me, but may happen to be the missing piece in the puzzle.

Were they parked outside the house that was quickly sold?
Was the house perhaps already on the market and one car belonged to Real Estate & other to prospective buyer ?

Thanks Warshawski.

How do we know for certain that they haven't come forward? How do we know for certain that the cars were even there? A rough description has only ever been given of the two cars allegedly seen by William's mother. No make or model of these two vehicles has ever been forthcoming, only that one was a white station wagon and the other an older style grey or green sedan. Yet ironically from that rough description it has been deduced that one car belonged to Anthony Jones and the other to the son of Paul Bickford. Jones and Bickford are now POI's in the investigation. I'd like to know what type of vehicle Derek Nichols drivesm he also being a POI. I'd also like to point out that there are apparently at least 12 other POI's in this case to date. This last point according to MSM reports and not directly from Gary Jubelin so we have to make of that what we will.

The investigators apparently knew about these two cars for 12 months before any information about them was released to the public. I really do find that incredible! Gary Jubelin is all about strategy but the strategy of this one is totally lost on me at this stage. Perhaps Task Force Rosann was monitoring people they thought may be the owners of these vehicles only to find that was not the case. If they knew beyond doubt that the two cars belonged to Jones and Bickford, why would they even bother to then mention them 12 months later? They would be keeping that information close to their chest for any future prosecution.

It's been reported in MSM that the residents in and surrounding Benaroon Drive were questioned at length and on numerous occasions during the investigation. What if these residents were asked, do you own a white station wagon or a grey/green sedan? The answer was "...no but I own a cream, pale blue, (add any light colour here) station wagon.". Or "...no but I own a blue (insert make and model) sedan.". As I said, the description of those to cars was very wishy-washy to say the least. This whole thing about the two cars is very hinky IMO.

As I mentioned, 35 Benaroon went on the market in October 2014. The fact that it was for sale may well have been known prior to October when the agent advertised it publicly. The two cars were in fact apparently seen close to this property and the owners of the cars may well have been a real estate agent and a prospective buyer. Once again, that real estate agent would have been questioned thoroughly by Task Force Rosann so I doubt that is the case.

 

[Bohemian]

I find when crims are confronted, they have a bloody good excuse. Well thought out.

If they are meth heads, they can lie to you, and they believe it.

Or they take off sharpish-like. Two across the road from mine at 6:30am, one inside a normally locked gate, the other milling around outside. Outside guy walks away quickly when I appear at my gate, inside guy doesn't answer my cheery (and deliberately innocent) query , 'Good morning! Can I help you?' but follows outside guy without replying or looking up. *'bowp bow' buzzer sounds as a result of an incorrect answer/pass* Wrong move, guys. Call to police assistance line soon after. Later a ladder is found against a wall of the building (where it shouldn't be) behind the yard I could see.

I wonder if investigators are searching through PAL records for Kendall (specifically, Benaroon Drive and surrounding streets) recorded prior to William's disappearance? Could be I'm not the only early-rising cat concierge in AUS. Maybe there is/was one living in Benaroon Drive too. I hope investigators spoke to former residents and those who were on vacation when William disappeared after they returned.
__________

btw mon ami crabbie good to see you back *cries tears of joy*

 

[krig101]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s/news-story/0b7546b860a0fed80a8da818fc0e98db


Victim’s statements and medical reports are believed to be part of the police’s case against Spedding.


I thought they couldn't find the medical reports? We're they found? Interesting



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[krig101]

interesting info about committal hearings...
http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/are-you-facing-a-committal

Is legal aid available for committals?

Yes. However, there are a number of conditions which apply to eligibility for legal aid. If you wish to apply for legal aid for a committal, you should lodge an application at the Legal Aid office nearest to you. Legal aid for committals is subject to a means test. You may be required to pay a contribution. There are also limits on the extent of legal aid for committals.


And......
The Magistrate then has to decide whether there is enough evidence to commit you for trial (if you have pleaded not guilty or not entered a plea) or for sentence (if you have pleaded guilty). If you do not wish to enter any plea at the Local Court and want the case to be finalised in the District Court or the Supreme Court, you may also waive your committal hearing (that is, give up your rights to a committal hearing) and be committed.

Thanks for this bearbear! IMO. Either Spedding didn't have enough to pay for a contribution or just didn't wish to enter a plea.



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[Makara]

All I can say is I feel so terribly sorry for Spedding's alleged victims when this finally goes to trial. They were little girl's back in 1987 when these alleged crimes took place. They were aged six and three. Tiny little girls who should never have been exposed to any of this ****! Yet almost 30 years later they are prepared to bear witness to what allegedly took place at the hands of Spedding in 1987. The defense will tear this two girls to shreads! Spedding will walk. Be prepared for that great big "I've been acquitted" grin on Spedding's face when it is all done and dusted.

In the interim, does any this bring us any closer to what happened to William? Not one iota!

 

[Bohemian]

If I were to chuck a phone, I'd throw it in a deep and salty river so the components rust. Bridge, jetty?

Or destroy them by crushing and incineration such as at a metal recycling plant? I worked for a government department many moons ago whose security was so stringent, computer hard drives were wiped, smashed to smithereens and turned to ash before they were deemed 'unclassified'.