Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

[Puggle]

Thanks for the links FG & Bo

They'll keep me busy for a bit

Puggle xx

 

[SouthAussie]

4. His brother-in law was in contact with the victims in January '87 and had intent towards his neices. The offences against the victims were alleged to have happened on a weekend between March and April that year. The hospital, medical report was in May that year. The brother in law was not a garden variety pedo but the worst kind. The victim who was 6 at the time is the only one with memory of it. This seems to be the only incident where there is a medical report and case notes to back up the crime and unfortunately the brother-in-law may well fit into that timeline. My understanding is that the charges in Victoria relate to the same victim who would be even younger when they occurred, no medical records to show something has happened, no observations by the mother at that time have been reported in MSM. The NSW event was obviously the end of BS marriage to CH and with looking at the custody of the children, I think there would have been huge amounts of fear, suspicion, anger and coaching of children very possible. I think it's very possible his ex could have lied to his children cause she felt so guilty and responsible that her brother did this to their children that she thought she would lose custody of them."

Thanks for your well thought out reply. I cannot agree with much of it, as you know, because I believe that pedos can fly under the radar for many, many years before ever having to face their crimes (if ever, at all). And they pretty much always deny their crimes, even after they are convicted (with a few exceptions).

But the one thing that stands out to me in your response, is the point I have snipped above.
I am certain, and would have to go back through the threads to find the links, that the scum brother-in-law was in jail at the time of the April/May offences. He could not be responsible for the attacks on the girls at that time.

And the May medical report was produced very soon after the April/May attacks ... not a month later.


ETA: Found the link ........ (BBM) the Crown would have access to the prison records, so these would be a direct reflection of those records, submitted in court. A fact that (imo) should not be overlooked here.

Spedding is accused of sexually assaulting the two girls, aged three and six, in a caravan at Campbelltown in April/May 1987.
The Crown prosecutor argued Hillsley was in jail at the time of the alleged offences.
"The brother [Hillsley] was in jail. He may have lived with them at a time prior...[he had no] access to them at that particular point in time," she said.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3152983/spedding-was-related-to-notorious-child-abuser/

 

[Hbayne]

Thanks for your well thought out reply. I cannot agree with much of it, as you know, because I believe that pedos can fly under the radar for many, many years before ever having to face their crimes (if ever, at all). And they pretty much always deny their crimes, even after they are convicted (with a few exceptions).

But the one thing that stands out to me in your response, is the point I have snipped above.
I am certain, and would have to go back through the threads to find the links, that the scum brother-in-law was in jail at the time of the March/April offences. He could not be responsible for the attacks on the girls at that time.

I wondered that too. I'm certain I had read that he was in prison at the time .

 

[SouthAussie]

I wondered that too. I'm certain I had read that he was in prison at the time .

Yes, he was. I edited my previous post to add a link to the info.

 

[Hbayne]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html


This is the article referring to hillsey being in prison

 

[sosocurious]

Hillsley was released from prison 19 December 1986.
Parole was revoked and he was returned 29 Jan 1987.

www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp...9.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=title(hillsley )

 

[Eloise]

Don't forget that this is the only place where his case has been moved to the 2010s section and this is just where people sleuth the case, nothing to do with the investigation. With the right tip, and/or the right followup/evidence, the case could blow wide open today. I hope they have barked up every tree and not lost some potential trees along the way due to interest in one particular tree. By tree, i mean theory, as opposed to POI.

Sure, I mean that's what I meant. The case isn't "cold" in law enforcement terms, but for it to have taken long enough for WS to move it from the main Missing page to the 2010s page means its a long term deal.

I am well aware Websleuths is not the official body in control of missing persons investigation.

It just shouldn't have had to be that way. He shouldn't have gone missing at all, but having watched the case play out from day one, to have watched it progress from those first early days of hoping he'd be found alive in the bush having innocently wandered off, to thread #25 in the long term missing cases with talk of coronial inquiry and pedo rings, it's all just sad, sad, sad.

 

[Makara]

If you know anything more.....it might be helpful. ....I have no more than that either. ....

Nothing that I can post here.

 

[frogwell]

Thanks for your well thought out reply. I cannot agree with much of it, as you know, because I believe that pedos can fly under the radar for many, many years before ever having to face their crimes (if ever, at all). And they pretty much always deny their crimes, even after they are convicted (with a few exceptions).

But the one thing that stands out to me in your response, is the point I have snipped above.
I am certain, and would have to go back through the threads to find the links, that the scum brother-in-law was in jail at the time of the April/May offences. He could not be responsible for the attacks on the girls at that time.

And the May medical report was produced very soon after the April/May attacks ... not a month later.


ETA: Found the link ........ (BBM) the Crown would have access to the prison records, so these would be a direct reflection of those records, submitted in court. A fact that (imo) should not be overlooked here.

Spedding is accused of sexually assaulting the two girls, aged three and six, in a caravan at Campbelltown in April/May 1987.
The Crown prosecutor argued Hillsley was in jail at the time of the alleged offences.
"The brother [Hillsley] was in jail. He may have lived with them at a time prior...[he had no] access to them at that particular point in time," she said.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3152983/spedding-was-related-to-notorious-child-abuser/

The months are in dispute. In previous threads I have linked to articles that said March/April, Between March and April and April/ May. We will have to see. At the bail hearing police submitted it wasn't possible cause Hillsley was in jail and the offences occurred April May. The judge seemed to give weight to the idea that the reports don't indicate how old the injuries are and could have occurred in the 1st half of the year. My personal opinion is the police lied to make the time frame cut out Hillsley as a possibility. When BS was 1st charged, March/April was in the articles I read. Regional centre papers still seem to retain those months, others have been more " memory holey" since the bail appeal. Moo

 

[deugirtni]

Sure, I mean that's what I meant. The case isn't "cold" in law enforcement terms, but for it to have taken long enough for WS to move it from the main Missing page to the 2010s page means its a long term deal.

I am well aware Websleuths is not the official body in control of missing persons investigation.

It just shouldn't have had to be that way. He shouldn't have gone missing at all, but having watched the case play out from day one, to have watched it progress from those first early days of hoping he'd be found alive in the bush having innocently wandered off, to thread #25 in the long term missing cases with talk of coronial inquiry and pedo rings, it's all just sad, sad, sad.

yes, was just trying to make you feel better ;/
i'm thinking they need to re-start their re-start at square#1, relook at *everything*, every possibility, every person, every alibi, every cctv recording, every tip, new eyes. jmo

 

[deugirtni]

The months are in dispute. In previous threads I have linked to articles that said March/April, Between March and April and April/ May. We will have to see. At the bail hearing police submitted it wasn't possible cause Hillsley was in jail and the offences occurred April May. The judge seemed to give weight to the idea that the reports don't indicate how old the injuries are and could have occurred in the 1st half of the year. My personal opinion is the police lied to make the time frame cut out Hillsley as a possibility. When BS was 1st charged, March/April was in the articles I read. Regional centre papers still seem to retain those months, others have been more " memory holey" since the bail appeal. Moo

As far as I understood what I had read, the girls were not examined until sometime after the fact, and the *sometime* is in question, as mentioned. Could have been much earlier, or not, they only know that there is evidence that something happened, but not when. i don't think I could live with myself either if I had allowed my hideous child rapist brother to reside with me and my two little girls.

 

[sosocurious]

As far as I understood what I had read, the girls were not examined until sometime after the fact, and the *sometime* is in question, as mentioned. Could have been much earlier, or not, they only know that there is evidence that something happened, but not when. i don't think I could live with myself either if I had allowed my hideous child rapist brother to reside with me and my two little girls.

The three-year-old was examined at a child sexual assault unit in May 1987 with a doctor finding injuries consistent with “penetrating and sexual assault”, the facts state.
While gathering victim statements about these offences, police claim they unearthed other “disturbing allegations” about children performing sex acts on each other.
Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.
However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.
Police say they expect to lay more charges alleging other child sex offenders acted “independently of and in conjunction with”Spedding.
Victorian Police were also investigating allegations against Spedding.

ww.news.com.au/national/crime/mother-demands-answers-on-why-her-children-were-living-with-bill-spedding/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

 

[deugirtni]

The three-year-old was examined at a child sexual assault unit in May 1987 with a doctor finding injuries consistent with “penetrating and sexual assault”, the facts state.
While gathering victim statements about these offences, police claim they unearthed other “disturbing allegations” about children performing sex acts on each other.
Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.
However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.
Police say they expect to lay more charges alleging other child sex offenders acted “independently of and in conjunction with”Spedding.
Victorian Police were also investigating allegations against Spedding.

ww.news.com.au/national/crime/mother-demands-answers-on-why-her-children-were-living-with-bill-spedding/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

We will have to wait for the trial, however the defence is stating that the injuries could have been sustained much earlier than when the child was examined. Look at what the monster had already been convicted of. Who, with a regular, normal mind, containing even a little bit of common sense, would allow this man, even though he is your brother, to live with your 3 and 6 year old daughters?

Defence lawyer Peter O'Brien told the court Hillsley, who had been convicted of abducting and indecently assaulting a five-year-old, had lived at home with Spedding's alleged victims in January 1987.

Spedding is accused of sexually assaulting the two girls, aged three and six, in a caravan at Campbelltown in April/May 1987.

The Crown prosecutor argued Hillsley was in jail at the time of the alleged offences.

"The brother [Hillsley] was in jail. He may have lived with them at a time prior...[he had no] access to them at that particular point in time," she said.

Mr O'Brien argued that one of the victims suffered an injury that could have been suffered months prior. He also argued that Mr Spedding's alleged victims had been "coached" and "tutored" into naming him as their attacker.

Hillsley had previously served jail time for sex offences against three young girls.

He had only been out of jail for less than two years when he bludgeoned a 54-year-old to death with a hammer at his Campsie home on New Year's Eve in 2003.

The notorious Sydney paedophile then abducted the man's stepdaughter at knifepoint and repeatedly raped her in a back shed before sexually assaulting her at the Chullora Railway yards. Hillsley pleaded guilty to murder, kidnap and four counts of aggravated sexual assault.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bill-sped...dering-rapist-court-told-20150614-ghnx8h.html

 

[SouthAussie]

yes, was just trying to make you feel better ;/
i'm thinking they need to re-start their re-start at square#1, relook at *everything*, every possibility, every person, every alibi, every cctv recording, every tip, new eyes. jmo

That is exactly what Jubelin did when he took over the investigation. Re-started. Re-looked at everything. It was stated in that very good, long article in the Australian. He started at square one again, with new eyes.

We do not know where they are with their investigation. We do not know what is going on behind the scene. And covert operations are happening. We know that.
It could be very unfair to think that they do not know what happened to William. I think they know.

It took 7 long years to bring Daniel Morcombe's abductor and killer to face justice.


Jubelin’s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. “Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he’s not lost, he’s been snatched.” After meticulously investigating William’s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out.
William’s disappearance is a “once in a *decade crime”, according to Dr Olav Nielssen, a psychiatrist from the University of NSW who has studied juvenile homicides.
Someone who has walked the same path as William’s parents is Bruce Morcombe, whose son Daniel disappeared in 2003. It wasn’t until 2011 that his killer, Brett Cowan, was charged.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...rg6z6-1227308929078+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

 

[SouthAussie]

The months are in dispute. In previous threads I have linked to articles that said March/April, Between March and April and April/ May. We will have to see. At the bail hearing police submitted it wasn't possible cause Hillsley was in jail and the offences occurred April May. The judge seemed to give weight to the idea that the reports don't indicate how old the injuries are and could have occurred in the 1st half of the year. My personal opinion is the police lied to make the time frame cut out Hillsley as a possibility. When BS was 1st charged, March/April was in the articles I read. Regional centre papers still seem to retain those months, others have been more " memory holey" since the bail appeal. Moo

Fair enough. Evidently, some think that Spedding is being framed. I don't personally know why any authority would waste their time and energy doing that. It would not 'recover' William.

 

[Hbayne]

That is exactly what Jubelin did when he took over the investigation. Re-started. Re-looked at everything. It was stated in that very good, long article in the Australian. He started at square one again, with new eyes.

We do not know where they are with their investigation. We do not know what is going on behind the scene. And covert operations are happening. We know that.
It could be very unfair to think that they do not know what happened to William. I think they know.

It took 7 long years to bring Daniel Morcombe's abductor and killer to face justice.

I agree, I think they know too but can't risk an arrest until all exactly in place.

 

[deugirtni]

That is exactly what Jubelin did when he took over the investigation. Re-started. Re-looked at everything. It was stated in that very good, long article in the Australian. He started at square one again, with new eyes.

We do not know where they are with their investigation. We do not know what is going on behind the scene. And covert operations are happening. We know that.
It could be very unfair to think that they do not know what happened to William. I think they know.

It took 7 long years to bring Daniel Morcombe's abductor and killer to face justice.

yes, that is why i said they need to re-start their restart. It took 7 long years to bring DM's killer to face justice, and why? And what did it take to get it there? And where would it still be today if not for the coroner's inquest? If his parents hadn't fought and fought for it to happen? If they hadn't revisited the alibis? People may have thought the police 'knew' in that case as well, since they (the police) seemed to balk at an inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

yes, that is why i said they need to re-start their restart. It took 7 long years to bring DM's killer to face justice, and why? And what did it take to get it there? And where would it still be today if not for the coroner's inquest? If his parents hadn't fought and fought for it to happen? If they hadn't revisited the alibis? People may have thought the police 'knew' in that case as well, since they (the police) seemed to balk at an inquest.

It would be interesting to know exactly when police started their covert operations into Brett Cowan. Was it before the inquest? Is that why they balked at the inquest? It was not a short covert operation. They befriended Cowan, they followed him to Perth ... this all takes time.
Is that why they are delaying the inquest into William's disappearance? I think it very well could be.

I don't want to underestimate our fine police force. Just as I don't want to negate the probability that Spedding raped two little girls. I think that is unfair to the victims.

How many times does one re-start an investigation? They may already have a lot of traction in this one. We just do not know. But we do know that Jubelin will not give up .... ever.

 

[Karinna]

It would be interesting to know exactly when police started their covert operations into Brett Cowan. Was it before the inquest? Is that why they balked at the inquest? It was not a short covert operation. They befriended Cowan, they followed him to Perth ... this all takes time.
Is that why they are delaying the inquest into William's disappearance? I think it very well could be.

I don't want to underestimate our fine police force. Just as I don't want to negate the probability that Spedding raped two little girls. I think that is unfair to the victims.

How many times does one re-start an investigation? They may already have a lot of traction in this one. We just do not know. But we do know that Jubelin will not give up .... ever.

I agree if BS did that years ago and has never been held to account then we will see what the trial brings. But with most paedophiles they molest many children before they are caught usually. That doesn't seem to be the MO of Spedding because there are not a string of victims in his wake that we're aware of. I would imagine if there are a trail of victims they would of been forthcoming by now to receive justice, but to my knowledge that hasn't happened. He has never been officially charged of anything to do with WT's disappearance, and has never been convicted of being a paedophile to date. So time will tell how this all goes in the near future.
I wouldn't want to accuse him just yet, because we just don't know, unlike some of the other perps. in this investigation that have actually been found to have committed crimes against children. And time will tell with BS, IMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree if BS did that years ago and has never been held to account then we will see what the trial brings. But with most paedophiles they molest many children before they are caught usually. That doesn't seem to be the MO of Spedding because there are not a string of victims in his wake that we're aware of. I would imagine if there are a trail of victims they would of been forthcoming by now to receive justice, but to my knowledge that hasn't happened. He has never been officially charged of anything to do with WT's disappearance, and has never been convicted of being a paedophile to date. So time will tell how this all goes in the near future.
I wouldn't want to accuse him just yet, because we just don't know, unlike some of the other perps. in this investigation that have actually been found to have committed crimes against children. And time will tell with BS, IMO.

BBM: He has already been accused, and charged. Prosecutors in two states feel that there is enough evidence to charge him and bring him to trial.
This is not a Royal Commission inquiry, where people just relate their horrific experiences. There is apparently sufficient real evidence to bring Spedding to trial.

I just get irked because I sometimes feel that the police are being maligned here (not meaning you Karinna, just a general feeling I get at times). Police are doing their absolute best to find William.