Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[richieswan]

I have just to keep going back to the reason that they left William alone in the yard was because the four year old sister wanted to use the toilet. Four year olds can use the toilet without assistance. I find it really puzzling that that was used as a reason why he was alone in the yard. I would think that it is not unusual for a little boy to be outside for a little while, without a reason, just that he is a little boy but they had this excuse ready. I do find that a little strange.

As a father of a 3 and 6 year old I have to disagree. The 6 year old "demands" certain help. And at a new setting I wouldn't expect any youngling to go solo.

 

[Karinna]

As a father of a 3 and 6 year old I have to disagree. The 6 year old "demands" certain help. And at a new setting I wouldn't expect any youngling to go solo.

It can depend on the confidence of the child as well. Maybe WT's sister was closer to 5 than 4 as well, we don't know?

 

[deugirtni]

I have read this version of the story and then i have read that the FG was on the patio watching the children while FM went inside to make a cup of tea? I think a lot of that is the fault of media spin too. Who really knows what happened? Not enough to cast suspicion on them from what LE said. They were ruled out very quickly from memory?

The FF was ruled out VERY quickly, perhaps even within a day, IIRC? Does anyone remember?

I don't believe we can take anything that was published in MSM with any confidence in accuracy because during the entire 3 years, virtually every point has been reported in a number of different ways.. ie he was playing in front yard, side yard, back yard; both FM and FG were in making tea, the little girl needed help going to the bathroom, FG was sitting outside the entire time; the dogs never got any scent of WT at the property, the dogs only found a scent to the edge of the property at the road; it was a surprise visit in which nobody knew the family was coming, not even the FG, it was a surprise visit only insomuchas the FG thought they weren't arriving until a day later; the age of WT's sister - she was reported as younger, older, 4, 5, 6 (from memory, could be mistaken); there were no odd vehicles seen in the neighbourhood, then a year later there were odd vehicles seen, (in fact, weren't there suddenly 4 of them(?)), but yet police didn't think it appropriate to ask for the public's assistance in determining who they may have belonged to at the time when it still may have been fresh in peoples' minds, etc., and nobody in the hood really saw the 2 parked vehicles except for FM (who really wouldn't have known which vehicles were regulars or not, since she hadn't visited her mom for what, 5 months?, and even at that time, it was when her dad died/dad's funeral, so likely not much vehicle-noticing would have been taking place then either(?))? The list of discrepancies goes on and onnnnnn.

When I first started reading about this case, I was immediately struck by the long list of discrepancies in MSM reporting, right from the beginning, and it has kept on going. I started making a list of them because it was so confusing to me.. it was unbelievable how many there were. In fact, that may be what sparked my interest in this case in the first place, there were just so many things wrong in so many ways.

One paper will publish something, perhaps inaccurately to begin with, and then other publications will repeat it and it will sprout additional 'info' on top, or be reworded to become something else, or it will be written in such a way that it could have more than one meaning, or it will be unclear as to who it's exactly referring to (as when perhaps someone writes 'he' or 'she', the person may mean one person, but the reader may assume another person is meant, etc.), and etc.

At one point on the thread it was discussed that it would be interesting to only look at the words that actually came out of the actual people who were actually involved, rather than considering MSM's words, ie listening to the actual words out of the mouths of the FPs from the FP interviews, the police press releases/conferences, actual quoted material in MSM from only those that were actually present (which can also leave room for error, imho, since reporters are human, but not as likely as UNquoted material, where the reporter has taken the liberty of putting things into her/his own words), etc.. It would be interesting to try to weed out what was actually stated by those with direct knowledge, as opposed to what was stated by a reporter, or someone who wasn't actually around, who may have heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who may not even know for sure themselves, or who may have heard/understood something incorrectly, etc.

That would be a great exercise, but time consuming. It would be interesting to know what the actual players have said, without all of the background noise, innuendo, distraction, etc.

 

[deugirtni]

I found it strange in the beginning too but I don't know the minute details of the events of that fateful morning. DCI Jubelin does and he has repeatedly and unequivocally stated that neither William's foster parents, nor his biological parents, are POI's/suspects in William's disappearance. Until he, or another police spokesperson states otherwise, we have to accept that.

I don't mean or want to create any kind of kerfuffle, but it kind of disturbs me how we pick and choose which statements to believe, or not to believe. Police have also stated numerous times that BS is not a suspect, and that, 'at the very highest, he is a POI'.. which police have also stated there are some 700 of, in total now. But yet, while we continue to NOT accept that repeated statement, we are pressured into accepting another police statement, that the families are not involved. Just doesn't seem right to me that we pick and choose what we can discuss and believe, or not. If police word is good enough for one thing, why is it not good enough for all? If police word is not good enough for one thing, then why must it be 100% relied upon for another? Jmo and no hard feelings and I still respect the OP's opinion.

 

[deugirtni]

I have just to keep going back to the reason that they left William alone in the yard was because the four year old sister wanted to use the toilet. Four year olds can use the toilet without assistance. I find it really puzzling that that was used as a reason why he was alone in the yard. I would think that it is not unusual for a little boy to be outside for a little while, without a reason, just that he is a little boy but they had this excuse ready. I do find that a little strange.

Does anyone know where and when it came from, and how often/by how many it was reported that assisting the sister in the bathroom was a reason for why WT was left unsupervised? I don't remember hearing that one in the beginning, but only much later.. but I could certainly be mistaken. What did FM say during her interview as to what the 3 people present that day were doing at the time when WT disappeared into thin air? From memory, it seems to me that it was said that FM went in to make tea, but it didn't elaborate on what the other 2 were doing, but it's been 3 years and memories fade.

 

[Bohemian]

I don't mean or want to create any kind of kerfuffle, but it kind of disturbs me how we pick and choose which statements to believe, or not to believe. Police have also stated numerous times that BS is not a suspect, and that, 'at the very highest, he is a POI'.. which police have also stated there are some 700 of, in total now. But yet, while we continue to NOT accept that repeated statement, we are pressured into accepting another police statement, that the families are not involved. Just doesn't seem right to me that we pick and choose what we can discuss and believe, or not. If police word is good enough for one thing, why is it not good enough for all? If police word is not good enough for one thing, then why must it be 100% relied upon for another? Jmo and no hard feelings and I still respect the OP's opinion.

I understand but the statements about William's biological and foster parents have come directly from the 'horse's mouth', ie; DCI Gary Jubelin, the head of Strike Force Rosann, time and time again.

He has also never once stated that BS, or anyone else, is/was a POI or a suspect. His reply to questioning of that kind is always that he 'doesn't discuss operational matters'. That BS, and others, were POI's was reported in MSM without a named source (ie, 'police', 'police spokesman') IIRC.

My own opinion of who may be responsible for William's disappearance has evolved over time and I have decided to keep that to myself until such time as there is an arrest. Until that time I am open to all possibilities.

As for proceedings unconnected to William's disappearance, people have been charged, are at trial or have been sentenced and I adjust my way of thinking accordingly.

All I seek is the truth, such as it is, and justice for children who are abused, missing and/or murdered — nothing else. I have no need to be right about anyone or anything.

 

[Karinna]

The FF was ruled out VERY quickly, perhaps even within a day, IIRC? Does anyone remember?

I don't believe we can take anything that was published in MSM with any confidence in accuracy because during the entire 3 years, virtually every point has been reported in a number of different ways.. ie he was playing in front yard, side yard, back yard; both FM and FG were in making tea, the little girl needed help going to the bathroom, FG was sitting outside the entire time; the dogs never got any scent of WT at the property, the dogs only found a scent to the edge of the property at the road; it was a surprise visit in which nobody knew the family was coming, not even the FG, it was a surprise visit only insomuchas the FG thought they weren't arriving until a day later; the age of WT's sister - she was reported as younger, older, 4, 5, 6 (from memory, could be mistaken); there were no odd vehicles seen in the neighbourhood, then a year later there were odd vehicles seen, (in fact, weren't there suddenly 4 of them(?)), but yet police didn't think it appropriate to ask for the public's assistance in determining who they may have belonged to at the time when it still may have been fresh in peoples' minds, etc., and nobody in the hood really saw the 2 parked vehicles except for FM (who really wouldn't have known which vehicles were regulars or not, since she hadn't visited her mom for what, 5 months?, and even at that time, it was when her dad died/dad's funeral, so likely not much vehicle-noticing would have been taking place then either(?))? The list of discrepancies goes on and onnnnnn.

When I first started reading about this case, I was immediately struck by the long list of discrepancies in MSM reporting, right from the beginning, and it has kept on going. I started making a list of them because it was so confusing to me.. it was unbelievable how many there were. In fact, that may be what sparked my interest in this case in the first place, there were just so many things wrong in so many ways.

One paper will publish something, perhaps inaccurately to begin with, and then other publications will repeat it and it will sprout additional 'info' on top, or be reworded to become something else, or it will be written in such a way that it could have more than one meaning, or it will be unclear as to who it's exactly referring to (as when perhaps someone writes 'he' or 'she', the person may mean one person, but the reader may assume another person is meant, etc.), and etc.

At one point on the thread it was discussed that it would be interesting to only look at the words that actually came out of the actual people who were actually involved, rather than considering MSM's words, ie listening to the actual words out of the mouths of the FPs from the FP interviews, the police press releases/conferences, actual quoted material in MSM from only those that were actually present (which can also leave room for error, imho, since reporters are human, but not as likely as UNquoted material, where the reporter has taken the liberty of putting things into her/his own words), etc.. It would be interesting to try to weed out what was actually stated by those with direct knowledge, as opposed to what was stated by a reporter, or someone who wasn't actually around, who may have heard it from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from someone who may not even know for sure themselves, or who may have heard/understood something incorrectly, etc.

That would be a great exercise, but time consuming. It would be interesting to know what the actual players have said, without all of the background noise, innuendo, distraction, etc.

I agree it is very confusing, and i know that early in the threads the info. is msm about the FM, FG & WT's sister going in to make a cup of tea and the sister going inside too because she needed to go to the bathroom. The story now is different.
Here is the full transcript of the interview with the FP's so you can read what was said. I think the wording is a bit strange, but that's just me lol. But nowhere does it state from what i read how it occurred that what they were doing exactly just before FM doesn't hear William?
(quote)
P: When did things start to go awry?

M: Well, when I realised that William was missing, I just, I think back to that moment where I just went, I can’t hear him, why, why can’t I hear him, and I walked around, seriously it was just 2, 3 metres away from where we were sitting, and I’ve just walked out, and I just see nothing. I see nothing, I hear nothing, I’m speechless. I’m walking around in a circle on the spot thinking, where is he, why can’t I see him, and I’m yelling out, “William, where are you, you need to talk to Mummy, tell me where you are, I can’t see you, I can’t hear you, where are you?”, and he was nowhere, and I’m just standing there thinking, how could he just disappear because he just disappeared and I don’t get it, I don’t get it.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...full-transcript-from-william-tyrrells-parents

 

[sosocurious]

Does anyone know where and when it came from, and how often/by how many it was reported that assisting the sister in the bathroom was a reason for why WT was left unsupervised? I don't remember hearing that one in the beginning, but only much later.. but I could certainly be mistaken. What did FM say during her interview as to what the 3 people present that day were doing at the time when WT disappeared into thin air? From memory, it seems to me that it was said that FM went in to make tea, but it didn't elaborate on what the other 2 were doing, but it's been 3 years and memories fade.

I can't remember ever seeing it in msn.

Originally Posted by Amee thread 1 #514
Has anyone seen the MSM about Williams sister going inside to the toilet? I cant find it anywhere.

SA reply Thread 1 #516
The only place I can find it is in a comment (2nd one down) on the Missing Persons Register FB page.
The comment also says that the sister is 8 years old (though she does not look that old to me ).

https://www.facebook.com/austmissing...00040083439192

 

[SouthAussie]

That BS, and others, were POI's was reported in MSM without a named source (ie, 'police', 'police spokesman') IIRC.

RSBM

Police have stressed Mr Spedding is not a suspect, but a person of interest in the case.
‘‘At the very highest he is a person of interest but he is not the only person of interest,’’ Superintendent Willing said.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2915669/william-tyrrell-search-for-evidence-continues/

 

[deugirtni]

I can't remember ever seeing it in msn.

Originally Posted by Amee thread 1 #514
Has anyone seen the MSM about Williams sister going inside to the toilet? I cant find it anywhere.

SA reply Thread 1 #516
The only place I can find it is in a comment (2nd one down) on the Missing Persons Register FB page.
The comment also says that the sister is 8 years old (though she does not look that old to me ).

https://www.facebook.com/austmissing...00040083439192

Thanks soso, that is my recollection as well.. that I don't even recall seeing the bit about the bathroom at all, but somewhere along the line it became a topic of discussion, so I assumed I must have missed something/an article that it appeared in. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that the idea had originated as just some miscellaneous viewer's comment, and then sprouted legs to become gospel. There have been a few FP interviews I think? It would sure be interesting to have transcripts from them all, and list whatever details were shared.. along with detailing what police have disclosed (through press releases, media conferences, and direct quotes), and neighbours who reported on the actual time, searchers, etc. (But not what they had 'heard' or anything, just the facts as they encountered them personally)...

 

[deugirtni]

RSBM

Police have stressed Mr Spedding is not a suspect, but a person of interest in the case.
‘‘At the very highest he is a person of interest but he is not the only person of interest,’’ Superintendent Willing said.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2915669/william-tyrrell-search-for-evidence-continues/

Thanks SA. I also recall a time when police actually cautioned the media in regard to their reporting of BS.. will have to look for that.

 

[Karinna]

I can't remember ever seeing it in msn.

Originally Posted by Amee thread 1 #514
Has anyone seen the MSM about Williams sister going inside to the toilet? I cant find it anywhere.

SA reply Thread 1 #516
The only place I can find it is in a comment (2nd one down) on the Missing Persons Register FB page.
The comment also says that the sister is 8 years old (though she does not look that old to me ).

https://www.facebook.com/austmissing...00040083439192

I definitely remember discussion about it ages ago, but can't remember exactly where the info. was sourced from initially? There was some discussion of it in Threads #1 & # 2, and maybe other as well.
Don't recall anywhere in interview where the FM said exactly what they were all doing, and where exactly they were at in the time just before WT went missing? I don't think she did say that publicly?

 

[Karinna]

So in this article it states the FM & FG both went inside and left WT & his sis. outside playing? Didn't his sister see anything?
(quote)
In less than 24 hours, William Tyrell's trip to visit his grandmother turned into every family's worst nightmare.

On Friday morning the three-year-old vanished without a trace from the garden at his grandmother’s house, where he had been playing with his sister while dressed in a Spiderman costume.

His grandmother and mother went inside the home, in Kendall on the New South Wales mid north coast, at about 10.30am and within five minutes he was gone
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ears-never-feel-safe-again.html#ixzz3DZXETL00

 

[deugirtni]

I understand but the statements about William's biological and foster parents have come directly from the 'horse's mouth', ie; DCI Gary Jubelin, the head of Strike Force Rosann, time and time again.

He has also never once stated that BS, or anyone else, is/was a POI or a suspect. His reply to questioning of that kind is always that he 'doesn't discuss operational matters'. That BS, and others, were POI's was reported in MSM without a named source (ie, 'police', 'police spokesman') IIRC.

My own opinion of who may be responsible for William's disappearance has evolved over time and I have decided to keep that to myself until such time as there is an arrest. Until that time I am open to all possibilities.

As for proceedings unconnected to William's disappearance, people have been charged, are at trial or have been sentenced and I adjust my way of thinking accordingly.

All I seek is the truth, such as it is, and justice for children who are abused, missing and/or murdered — nothing else. I have no need to be right about anyone or anything.

I'm always heartened to hear when people keep a mind open to all possibilities. Until this has been solved, it's the only thing to do, imho. I hope we will not have to wait years for the truth to be known, and justice to be brought to whomever had a hand in this.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree it is very confusing, and i know that early in the threads the info. is msm about the FM, FG & WT's sister going in to make a cup of tea and the sister going inside too because she needed to go to the bathroom. The story now is different.
Here is the full transcript of the interview with the FP's so you can read what was said. I think the wording is a bit strange, but that's just me lol. But nowhere does it state from what i read how it occurred that what they were doing exactly just before FM doesn't hear William?
(quote)
P: When did things start to go awry?

M: Well, when I realised that William was missing, I just, I think back to that moment where I just went, I can’t hear him, why, why can’t I hear him, and I walked around, seriously it was just 2, 3 metres away from where we were sitting, and I’ve just walked out, and I just see nothing. I see nothing, I hear nothing, I’m speechless. I’m walking around in a circle on the spot thinking, where is he, why can’t I see him, and I’m yelling out, “William, where are you, you need to talk to Mummy, tell me where you are, I can’t see you, I can’t hear you, where are you?”, and he was nowhere, and I’m just standing there thinking, how could he just disappear because he just disappeared and I don’t get it, I don’t get it.
http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...full-transcript-from-william-tyrrells-parents

Puh! Mannny words for describing the situation, OMG.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Does anyone know where and when it came from, and how often/by how many it was reported that assisting the sister in the bathroom was a reason for why WT was left unsupervised? I don't remember hearing that one in the beginning, but only much later.. but I could certainly be mistaken. What did FM say during her interview as to what the 3 people present that day were doing at the time when WT disappeared into thin air? From memory, it seems to me that it was said that FM went in to make tea, but it didn't elaborate on what the other 2 were doing, but it's been 3 years and memories fade.

At all events, FG stayed outside - so I remember. :gaah:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have read this version of the story and then i have read that the FG was on the patio watching the children while FM went inside to make a cup of tea? I think a lot of that is the fault of media spin too. Who really knows what happened? Not enough to cast suspicion on them from what LE said. They were ruled out very quickly from memory?

bbm

Ruled out very quickly THOUGH:

One of them speaks to a colleague, Detective Senior Constable Vanessa Partridge, back at Port Macquarie late that afternoon; they are worried something more sinister may have taken place. Partridge arrives very early the next day, and already there are people out on *horseback, on bicycle, on foot, searching for *William. His dad is out there with them, and will be for days, thinking, “Surely if he is out here in the bush he’ll be found?”

Arriving at the house on Benaroon Drive, *Partridge is thinking, “Something just doesn’t feel right about this whole thing.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078

That certainly doesn't feel right for me since the beginning ......

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Hi Jen, whilst I do agree that 4 year olds usually quite ably manage toileting in familiar situations, they can also be in need of company in unfamiliar places. Grandma's house was not an everyday visit, I believe it was stated they had not been there for sometime, so I can easily accept the little girl would have wanted someone to go with her.

AFAIK, the children have been in day care or similar already. I would think because of that they are able to do things without help?

 

[Bohemian]

RSBM

Police have stressed Mr Spedding is not a suspect, but a person of interest in the case.
‘‘At the very highest he is a person of interest but he is not the only person of interest,’’ Superintendent Willing said.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2915669/william-tyrrell-search-for-evidence-continues/

I was thinking about that this morning SA. I remembered there was one instance of a named police officer stating BS was a POI in a televised interview very early in the piece but I wasn't sure if it was Paul Fehon or Mike Willing. What I do know is that it was not DCI Jubelin.

Nevertheless, I consider DCI Jubelin, who is head of the ongoing investigation into William's disappearance, the definitive source of information. He has reiterated that neither of William's parents, biological or foster, are POI's over the course of his investigation. Likewise his standard reply to questions about BS being a POI has been non-committal, in that he doesn't discuss operational matters. People can read into that what they will.

I will keep an open mind about the circumstances of, and the person or persons responsible for, William's disappearance until such time as there is an arrest or arrests or a Coroner's inquest/inquiry.

 

[Bohemian]

I'm always heartened to hear when people keep a mind open to all possibilities. Until this has been solved, it's the only thing to do, imho. I hope we will not have to wait years for the truth to be known, and justice to be brought to whomever had a hand in this.

I have my own hypotheses regarding the circumstances of, and/or the person or persons responsible for, William's disappearance but I am not about to second-guess the police involved in one of the largest (or the largest?) investigations in NSW history. Likewise the NSW DPP, Coroner or judiciary.

In the meantime, my only concern is for William's welfare (and by extension, that of his older sister and younger siblings). Adults are the least of my concerns in cases such as this except, of course, those who have children's best interests at heart.