Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #32

[louisepiglet]

I suspect that if the cars were a fiction to get the public pointing to cars the police wanted to examine, the warrant would turn out to be not properly obtained, and anything found would therefore be inadmissible in court.

I can't believe that. So if someone is eventually charged with William's abduction and the FM is questioned in court re the cars she "saw" and it turns out that it is a fiction invented by LE wouldnt that make any evidence retrieved inadmissible?

 

[sosocurious]

I would imagine that anyone could join GAPA as support for friends etc. FGM was very active in the community. It is not outside the realm of possibility that she was a member.

GAPA is a support group for grandparents who are full-time carers for their grandchildren

http://www.portnews.com.au/story/1017233/

 

[Warshawski]

I have someone close to me who grew up as a child who was given drugs, sexually abused by one her mothers meth drug dealer boyfriends. This bloke was selling meth to schoolkids.

This girl is now perfect and obviously full anti drugs. She works next to a CEO and often meets one the richest women in the country. Bad childhood is not an excuse for poor adult choices.

The freaky thing, is he looks remarkably like identikit of he bloke that raped the German au pair in Mosman Park.

We need to stop making excuses for these bad behaving people.

i resoundly agree with your sentiments Credulious, However, since I am constantly reminded of the differing reactions of the differing personalities ( omg.. It's all far too complicated!) I am giving leeway to those who can't muster the spirit of your special person.

Cudos x how much to her, for rising above all that crap & making herself real. I don't dismiss the massive challenges she must have had to face & deal with - at the same time I applaud her taking ownership of herself & her personal destiny.

May we all be blessed with strength & wisdom when it matters most 🙏

Of course, all above is my own personal opinion..

 

[jessicalouise]

I think the most obvious POI/scenario is what took place in removing little William from his life.

Spedding may have had plans to attend the award ceremony with Margret, but either dropped her there, or arranged to meet her there - the small window of opportunity I think allows Margaret to believe in her husbands innocents or enables her to turn a blind eye with less guilt.
Spedding arrives on Benaroon drive, & comes across little William & as we all have imagined, the scenario of "hey Spidey" takes place, William is whisked away in the heat of the moment, when Spedding realises that an opportunity to act on the side of him he has been suppressing in his day to day life (with individuals he could be directly linked to) has just come bouncing down the hill dressed as Spiderman.

Long time reader of this thread, first time replying on it.

Given the whole "paedophile ring" detail police have divulged my theory is this: they all know each other and communicate with one another in some form - perhaps meeting through GAPA perhaps in other ways. They have their eyes and ears attuned to opportunities. It is not exactly an easy thing to just abduct a child, there has to be the right circumstances and opportunity, but nor does it really require real detailed pre-planning. After planning, sure.

I personally think BS got wind of of the FGM situation and that FM, WT and his sister were coming for a visit on the Friday. Perhaps over chit chat FGM let a few things slip she possibly shouldn't have, who knows, or maybe he is just able to ask the right chit chatty questions and read between the lines. He receives the part for the washing machine, was due to go to FGM house on the Friday. Tells his paedophile mates about the fact WT and his sister are foster children. Maybe they go to check out the place out of interest (hence the cars) and what else better do they have to do on a Friday? BS rocks up at FGM's house to go and repair the machine (he takes a chance that they're all home, why wouldn't they be, they're probably even expecting him) but when he gets there by absolute chance he sees WT and in a split second decides to swoop him up and take him away. A kid that age would be completely stunned into silence, possibly cry, but they would be extremely fearful.
He meets up with someone and palms WT off to the other person/people. Then does what he has to do for the rest of the day. It could have all happened so very quickly.

After that i have no clue. My worst thought is he's being passed people with ill intent. Or he died accidentally and they've disposed of his body somewhere.

I just find the alibis being given are so ridiculously flimsy. And MS wouldn't be the first wife to fudge for her husband or bend the truth to make things fit timewise. Out of loyalty, not to cover for him. It's amazing how some women can compartmentalize and just be in straight up denial. She wouldn't be the first.

As the police have said there are a lot of known sex offenders around for such a small area and probably more who don't have a record of any type yet.

 

[Warshawski]

I believe the lack of evidence after all this time was a huge hurdle. Everything I have read about historical cases, which is a lot just lately, indicates that the timespan is the hugest obstacle. Witnesses die, can't be found, etc etc.

I believe the girls. I believe their recall of the details. They were quite explicit. The medical reports backed them up, at least the bruising on the youngest one did. Unfortunately she was the one with less recall. Hillsley was in jail. It takes a lot for a victim to come forward ... and then to be grilled endlessly by the defence.

I will be interested to read a summation of the case, and see what actually happened. But I don't know if that is likely to ever be available, unless the girls allow it.

This is not directed at you, louise, but I am getting so tired of people saying that I am mindlessly going after Spedding. I have no reason to do that. I always admit when I am wrong. It is the way that I am reading what we have here, I don't feel that I am way off track. Time will tell ... I hope. For William's sake.

.

i felt the need to connect on your comments SA, other than my generic 'thanks'.

And to to applaud your articulation re a most difficult & sensitive subject.

IMO, there is No Way that these girls were not violated, and if not by 'Bill', who else .. as justice must be delivered, and penance needs to be paid.

 

[Hbayne]

Has Mr Bickford been convicted of more than one charge sexual based assaultvof a minor? how many convictions are there before you named a pedophile. Mr Jones was neverxa gapa member so I do hope you care not confused. was Mr Spedding a member hmmmm. Maybe not.

The point of gapa is bio grandparents parenting and are in fact considered by FACS as being foster parents. they receive t ghe same government assistance as non bio foster parents.

One offence or 100. Still a paedophile.

 

[SouthAussie]

Has Mr Bickford been convicted of more than one charge sexual based assaultvof a minor? how many convictions are there before you named a pedophile. Mr Jones was neverxa gapa member so I do hope you care not confused. was Mr Spedding a member hmmmm. Maybe not.

The point of gapa is bio grandparents parenting and are in fact considered by FACS as being foster parents. they receive t ghe same government assistance as non bio foster parents.

BBM

Tony Jones was a GAPA member ....

Jones is being probed over his possible involvement in the missing child case that has broken the hearts of Australia. He was also a member of the GAPA (Grandparents As Parents Again) group which The Telegraph revealed contained a paedophile ring being investigated by Strike Force Rosann detectives.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...e/news-story/32e25b03d673e69bcd1d82aa3b04f527

 

[Wexford]

BBM

Tony Jones was a GAPA member ....

Jones is being probed over his possible involvement in the missing child case that has broken the hearts of Australia. He was also a member of the GAPA (Grandparents As Parents Again) group which The Telegraph revealed contained a paedophile ring being investigated by Strike Force Rosann detectives.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...e/news-story/32e25b03d673e69bcd1d82aa3b04f527

He was. Earlier on in threads there were links to minutes of GAPA meetings and it appeared to me he was most active. From memory re the Working With Children Checks. Spedding was not a member of GAPA but of another similar (possibly splinter) group Grandparents and Kinship care. This article has info on both. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...andparent-support-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html

 

[Wexford]

or strategy used by police, and ive wondered if the 000 call was a police scripted re enactment of the original, for the public to hear

I agree especially when she tells the operator that his name is William Tyrrell, yet we know that he was not known as Tyrrell at that time.

 

[SouthAussie]

Long time reader of this thread, first time replying on it.

I just find the alibis being given are so ridiculously flimsy. And MS wouldn't be the first wife to fudge for her husband or bend the truth to make things fit timewise. Out of loyalty, not to cover for him. It's amazing how some women can compartmentalize and just be in straight up denial. She wouldn't be the first.

Great to hear another's theory, jessicalouise. Thanks for posting.

I agree about people compartmentalising, to avoid facing the possible truth that theiir loved one is guilty of a heinous crime. Margaret felt the need to see a clairvoyant to 'confirm' Spedding's non-involvement. So she must have more than one little inkling that he is involved. imo

I watched a show the other night about the murder of Carol Ann Park (years ago in England). The 3rd wife of the husband who murdered Carol Ann, remains loyal to the murderer to this day.

Is it because they do not want to admit to themselves that they have a murderer/child sex abuser for a spouse? Don't want to shake their own reality? Don't want to turn their whole world upside down? Despite the fact that their spouse has turned many other people's world upside down ... and, in this case, a little innocent boy is missing.

This kind of denial may be almost the ultimate in selfish thinking.

 

[SouthAussie]

He was. Earlier on in threads there were links to minutes of GAPA meetings and it appeared to me he was most active. From memory re the Working With Children Checks. Spedding was not a member of GAPA but of another similar (possibly splinter) group Grandparents and Kinship care. This article has info on both. https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...andparent-support-groups-20150905-gjfrug.html

Seriously?? Jones was in charge of the Working With Children checks?? They sure had that group all wrapped up, didn't they? Wow.

Yes, there was a reason that police turned their attention to the other Grandparents/Kinship Care group, as well. :thinking:

 

[Wexford]

Seriously?? Jones was in charge of the Working With Children checks?? They sure had that group all wrapped up, didn't they? Wow.

Yes, there was a reason that police turned their attention to the other Grandparents/Kinship Care group, as well. :thinking:

not so much 'in charge' but I believe he seconded the motion that all members had to have them.

 

[Hbayne]

Has Mr Bickford been convicted of more than one charge sexual based assaultvof a minor? how many convictions are there before you named a pedophile. Mr Jones was neverxa gapa member so I do hope you care not confused. was Mr Spedding a member hmmmm. Maybe not.

The point of gapa is bio grandparents parenting and are in fact considered by FACS as being foster parents. they receive t ghe same government assistance as non bio foster parents.

I’m not confused , perhaps you are. Tony Jones was a member of GAPA

 

[sosocurious]

not so much 'in charge' but I believe he seconded the motion that all members had to have them.

Bought over from thread 14 - post 208 Mountain Mumma

http://www.gapa.org.au/meeting-reports/page/3/

What a bitter bitter irony.

In the Meeting Reports of October 21, 2013 we have PB presiding as President.

Excerpt from the minutes of that meeting:

“Discussion took place over Working with Children Check.
Notice of Motion was moved Tony Jones second *** ***** that,
As you will be aware a new Working with Children Check came into effect on 15th June 2013 and must be completed by all authorised carers by December.
Once you have your clearance number GAPA must be provided with that number, your date of birth and date of cover to keep a register, as requested by the Office of the Children’s Guardian.”

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Yes, that could be a big problem if they were after any of the POIs with similar vehicles.

It does seem unusual, though, that they had this info for a year. Then decided to release it. Another piece of the puzzle that I can't get my head around yet.

I think that LE may have released the details a year later because they took that long to catalogue a list of owners of these vehicles in NSW (or possibly even Aus-wide). If they released the details to the public before doing so, the people who owned them may have destroyed their vehicles, sold them or similar, making it more difficult for LE to find a trail.


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[SouthAussie]

I think that LE may have released the details a year later because they took that long to catalogue a list of owners of these vehicles in NSW (or possibly even Aus-wide). If they released the details to the public before doing so, the people who owned them may have destroyed their vehicles, sold them or similar, making it more difficult for LE to find a trail.


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Good thought, Dark Shadow. Very possible. Find out who owned similar cars, then see who stepped forward as having been on the street that morning. Police would have been able to determine exactly what make and model those cars were, in all that time.

Similar to the Karen Ristevski case. Police had identified almost all vehicles similar to hers before releasing that CCTV of her car going over the railway crossing. I think they just had a couple of cars like hers that they were still trying to find, iirc.

 

[Hbayne]

I think that LE may have released the details a year later because they took that long to catalogue a list of owners of these vehicles in NSW (or possibly even Aus-wide). If they released the details to the public before doing so, the people who owned them may have destroyed their vehicles, sold them or similar, making it more difficult for LE to find a trail.


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Very good point dark shadow

 

[JLZ]

I can't believe that. So if someone is eventually charged with William's abduction and the FM is questioned in court re the cars she "saw" and it turns out that it is a fiction invented by LE wouldnt that make any evidence retrieved inadmissible?

I'm not sure I follow. The problem isn't police lying in general; we see that police lying to Cowan didn't invalidate his confession. As far as I know police can lie to the public, though it might be unwise--they need to maintain trust and goodwill. But lying to a magistrate in order to get a search warrant, that's looking like perjury or something, and would at least open up the admissibility of anything found in the search to vigorous legal argument. But, maybe what came in from the public as a result of the car story was a whole lot more than "So-and-so's car matches one of the Benaroon Drive cars, I think he might have dunnit", so there was a genuine case for examining certain vehicles and it wasn't necessary to mislead the magistrate.

On the whole I think the cars were there. Perhaps what made them suspect to police was that the owners hadn't come forward in the whole of the previous year. Or perhaps the cars aren't suspect at all and police had other reasons for putting the information out there.

 

[The Dark Shadow]

Good thought, Dark Shadow. Very possible. Find out who owned similar cars, then see who stepped forward as having been on the street that morning. Police would have been able to determine exactly what make and model those cars were, in all that time.

Similar to the Karen Ristevski case. Police had identified almost all vehicles similar to hers before releasing that CCTV of her car going over the railway crossing. I think they just had a couple of cars like hers that they were still trying to find, iirc.

Thanks SA. Exactly - and to add to that, I believe that the primary reason for releasing it to the public would be for further info on sightings or suspicious activity, rather than just identifying the owners.

I think by the time they released it, they knew exactly how many people owned those makes and models (or similar makes/models) of vehicles in NSW and would have flagged the suspicious owners (RSOs and those with criminal records etc). Then - as you said - they would wait to see who stepped forward (if they weren’t already 100% certain of who owned them)

ETA: I am personally not convinced that the cars are even relevant to the case. I believe in the Occam’s Razor principle and think the answer has been staring us in the face the whole time, but LE just don’t have enough evidence to prosecute yet. MOO

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[Wexford]

Bought over from thread 14 - post 208 Mountain Mumma

http://www.gapa.org.au/meeting-reports/page/3/

What a bitter bitter irony.

In the Meeting Reports of October 21, 2013 we have PB presiding as President.

Excerpt from the minutes of that meeting:

“Discussion took place over Working with Children Check.
Notice of Motion was moved Tony Jones second *** ***** that,
As you will be aware a new Working with Children Check came into effect on 15th June 2013 and must be completed by all authorised carers by December.
Once you have your clearance number GAPA must be provided with that number, your date of birth and date of cover to keep a register, as requested by the Office of the Children’s Guardian.”

thanks Soso I knew he rated a mention in the motion. So that leaves no doubt he was a member of GAPA I guess as he would be unable to move a motion if we were not. Although of course if you are familiar with the WWCC process it is not infallible and relies on the person inputting the data and record-keeping to ensure they have everyone on their database.