Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #36

[deugirtni]

They were looking for misadventure.

They mapped and documented the complete absence of it.

They are now going to run the flanks.

Are you saying that you really think that pedophiles get together for meetings to discuss how to get kids?

 

[deugirtni]

So where sre the local car scrappers?

TJ was a scrap hunter driving around looking car parts or white goods etc

One car, a grey one had gone to Queensland?

One POI worked occasionally with autistic kids?

Which grey car went to Queensland?

 

[Wexford]

Who would know an adopted child hinders investigation?

Police
FACs workers
Foster parents
People in a group who regularly meet and talk about having foster kids

 

[Wexford]

The black spot is concerning.
Procedures, policies and very complicated family situation and dynamics.

William's bio mother was not stopped from speaking/appealing. Well that is what she said in her interview.

I suspect she was 'advised' not to speak (although by whom is an interesting question). The first question that would be asked (and of course was) was 'why was William in foster care' and the answer was probably not something she personally really needed made public as it would expose her history. I also wonder if there were not other 'family' members of William's who are higher profile than her who did not need this information in the media.

 

[Violet77]

GJ himself actually referred to this crime as being "once in a generation". What is a generation - 100 years? 25 years? In any case, it speaks to how extremely rare such an abduction scenario would be with the circumstances of:

• dead end street, severely limiting get-away ability (without being seen, at least)
  
• extremely low density neighbourhood, chances of finding a child to steal would be extremely limited
• neighbours have expansive properties with full views of the road and other properties (as it has been written/reported)
  
• in this quiet neighbourhood, residents tend to notice if people and vehicles are in the street (as it has been written/reported)
  
• the victim and his family don't live in the area and nobody, not even the person whom the family was visiting, knew he would be there already at 10:30am on that day
• nothing heard nor seen by anyone - no crying, screams, talking, or traffic
  
• being an upscale neighbourhood, one might anticipate that most residents might have security cameras that could potentially catch road traffic
• mid morning on a weekday during light of day
• a young preschooler is BOTH momentarily unsupervised (likely rare) on the sprawling, unfenced yard AND wandering (which reportedly, the boy doesn't do) at that very second the perp happens to drive by
• at the very time of the event, and just prior and just after, residents are out on the street - mowing lawns, unloading groceries, reading books just inside at their windows, with some others in their vehicles leaving or returning to the street
• the two adults present happened to both be inside making tea at that very second, while the third adult had left the neighbourhood for only 2 hours out of a 3 day weekend, but would presumably otherwise have been present with the rest of the family for the duration
  
• the other child with whom the victim was then-currently playing with, was reportedly unable to provide any witness information to police, for whatever reason (I believe there were unsubstantiated reports in MSM that the child may have been in the loo at the time)

If a stranger abduction truly occurred under such a large list of unlikely circumstances, unfortunately I cannot see much hope of this case ever being solved.

"Det Chief Insp Jubelin described the crime as once-in-a-generation"
Tyrrell case 'frustrating' three years on

I believe it was referred to as once in a decade - other examples being Daniel -

As I see it, all those circumstances which makes this whole scenario so unbelievable, is exactly why the perp thought they had just stumbled across a golden opportunity.
I don’t think they were prowling the dead end streets of Kendall, lurking in the bushes waiting for some child to be left momentarily unattended long enough to be carted off. But rather, the perp was on the street for some other reason, no one else around, a little boy comes into sight. Maybe they waited a minute or two to see if Mum was following, while weighing up the situation - dead end street means a car is less likely to come by as a witness, the houses are buzzing with activity, no one saw you drive/walk to that location. All these unbelievable factors turn out to be the reason why William was snatched - when Mum does not appear, the temptation to take advantage of this situation is too much, William is grabbed & carried off.

 

[iailwa]

Need to remember too, this is not a dead end street. Anyone passing through into the forest has less chance of anyone seeing them, than someone turning and passing back by all the houses. IIRC the next door neighbours (to WTS right) were away as well.

 

[coincidencehasreason]

I believe it was referred to as once in a decade - other examples being Daniel -

As I see it, all those circumstances which makes this whole scenario so unbelievable, is exactly why the perp thought they had just stumbled across a golden opportunity.
I don’t think they were prowling the dead end streets of Kendall, lurking in the bushes waiting for some child to be left momentarily unattended long enough to be carted off. But rather, the perp was on the street for some other reason, no one else around, a little boy comes into sight. Maybe they waited a minute or two to see if Mum was following, while weighing up the situation - dead end street means a car is less likely to come by as a witness, the houses are buzzing with activity, no one saw you drive/walk to that location. All these unbelievable factors turn out to be the reason why William was snatched - when Mum does not appear, the temptation to take advantage of this situation is too much, William is grabbed & carried off.

Your theory does make sense although recently GJ said something along the lines " somebody in the area knows why we are searching here (Kendall)"

 

[HavenWood]

GJ himself actually referred to this crime as being "once in a generation". What is a generation - 100 years? 25 years? In any case, it speaks to how extremely rare such an abduction scenario would be with the circumstances of:

• dead end street, severely limiting get-away ability (without being seen, at least)
  
• extremely low density neighbourhood, chances of finding a child to steal would be extremely limited
• neighbours have expansive properties with full views of the road and other properties (as it has been written/reported)
  
• in this quiet neighbourhood, residents tend to notice if people and vehicles are in the street (as it has been written/reported)
  
• the victim and his family don't live in the area and nobody, not even the person whom the family was visiting, knew he would be there already at 10:30am on that day
• nothing heard nor seen by anyone - no crying, screams, talking, or traffic
  
• being an upscale neighbourhood, one might anticipate that most residents might have security cameras that could potentially catch road traffic
• mid morning on a weekday during light of day
• a young preschooler is BOTH momentarily unsupervised (likely rare) on the sprawling, unfenced yard AND wandering (which reportedly, the boy doesn't do) at that very second the perp happens to drive by
• at the very time of the event, and just prior and just after, residents are out on the street - mowing lawns, unloading groceries, reading books just inside at their windows, with some others in their vehicles leaving or returning to the street
• the two adults present happened to both be inside making tea at that very second, while the third adult had left the neighbourhood for only 2 hours out of a 3 day weekend, but would presumably otherwise have been present with the rest of the family for the duration
  
• the other child with whom the victim was then-currently playing with, was reportedly unable to provide any witness information to police, for whatever reason (I believe there were unsubstantiated reports in MSM that the child may have been in the loo at the time)

If a stranger abduction truly occurred under such a large list of unlikely circumstances, unfortunately I cannot see much hope of this case ever being solved.

"Det Chief Insp Jubelin described the crime as once-in-a-generation"
Tyrrell case 'frustrating' three years on

We don't know if anybody was aware of William being there on that day. There is a chance that somebody did know.
If a car drove up the road and done a u-turn and pulled up, but left the engine running, there would be very little noise, no sound of an engine starting.
The houses in the street are on fairly large blocks, one of the houses closest to FGMs was empty, apart from that there may have been one or two houses that would have had any kind of view of where William went missing from. What are the chances that at that exact time, one of those people just happened to be looking out their window?
I have neighbours right beside me, but unless I hear some loud yelling etc, I would have no idea what is going on right next door, because I very rarely look out my window. I'm usually looking at a computer screen, tv , kitchen sink etc.
There was no scream? Wouldn't any kidnapper with half a brain place their hand over a child's mouth before anything else?
A young child momentarily unsupervised? Rare ... but yes, it can happen. My daughter was around two, and in the time it took me to roll up an extension cord, she disappeared. I was terrified because it happened so quickly, I assumed somebody must have grabbed her. But she had actually wandered out of the yard (the first time she ever had), wandered down the road, and was luckily picked up by a bus driver, who immediately called the police. You would be stunned at how quickly things can happen.

 

[deugirtni]

I believe it was referred to as once in a decade - other examples being Daniel -

As I see it, all those circumstances which makes this whole scenario so unbelievable, is exactly why the perp thought they had just stumbled across a golden opportunity.
I don’t think they were prowling the dead end streets of Kendall, lurking in the bushes waiting for some child to be left momentarily unattended long enough to be carted off. But rather, the perp was on the street for some other reason, no one else around, a little boy comes into sight. Maybe they waited a minute or two to see if Mum was following, while weighing up the situation - dead end street means a car is less likely to come by as a witness, the houses are buzzing with activity, no one saw you drive/walk to that location. All these unbelievable factors turn out to be the reason why William was snatched - when Mum does not appear, the temptation to take advantage of this situation is too much, William is grabbed & carried off.

Well yes, that is what LE have been saying, and why GJ has referred to it as a once in a generation crime. The chances of all of those things coming together all at the same time *in addition* to the person who just happened upon this 'golden opportunity' would have had to have been a pedophile with the inclination to take such a huge risk, which makes it even *more* unlikely.

I don't recall *ever* seeing this case referred to as a 'once in a decade' crime, do you have links?

 

[coincidencehasreason]

With each passing day with no solid and significant info by police on WT, I think it is possible that somebody like Cowan in MC case happen to be driving in the area, saw a vulnerable little person who is not able to defend himself, who arrived in this world only two years ago, nabbed him and threw him somewhere very far from Kendall

 

[deugirtni]

Police
FACs workers
Foster parents
People in a group who regularly meet and talk about having foster kids

Would foster parents know this? Would even FACS workers think of it in terms of 'hindering investigations'? I would think FACS would perceive it more as 'protecting children'? jmo.

 

[Violet77]

We don't know if anybody was aware of William being there on that day. There is a chance that somebody did know.
If a car drove up the road and done a u-turn and pulled up, but left the engine running, there would be very little noise, no sound of an engine starting.
The houses in the street are on fairly large blocks, one of the houses closest to FGMs was empty, apart from that there may have been one or two houses that would have had any kind of view of where William went missing from. What are the chances that at that exact time, one of those people just happened to be looking out their window?
I have neighbours right beside me, but unless I hear some loud yelling etc, I would have no idea what is going on right next door, because I very rarely look out my window. I'm usually looking at a computer screen, tv , kitchen sink etc.
There was no scream? Wouldn't any kidnapper with half a brain place their hand over a child's mouth before anything else?
A young child momentarily unsupervised? Rare ... but yes, it can happen. My daughter was around two, and in the time it took me to roll up an extension cord, she disappeared. I was terrified because it happened so quickly, I assumed somebody must have grabbed her. But she had actually wandered out of the yard (the first time she ever had), wandered down the road, and was luckily picked up by a bus driver, who immediately called the police. You would be stunned at how quickly things can happen.

Agreed! Little kids can move very fast!
A few years back, while driving my sister home at around 6pm, we saw a small girl, of around two years old, belting her way down the footpath alone alongside the road. I pulled into the community center car park & stopped her. She was too young to articulate where she had come from, or where she was going. I took her back in the direction from which she came & asked her at every house if it was where “Mummy” was. It was at least 3/4 of a km until we found her home, with an unaware mother inside, she had left her child in front of the tv having a snack while she was in the bathroom, the girl had climbed out of the window.

But speaking of predators & circumstances in which they will snatch a child - while trying to get information out of the little girl on the side of the road, a man pulled up on the other side of the road, he offered to take the girl back to her mother, something about him made me suspicious & I asked him a few questions- the girls name, where did she live & where her mother was - all of which he couldn’t answer but kept insisting he knew her & should take her back to her mother. I asked the girl if she knew the man, she shook her head & at that point I threatened to call the police, he sped off before I could get my phone out of my pocket to photograph his license plate. I reported it to the police anyway & told the child’s mother.
Here we were, on a semi main road, daylight, myself, my sister & her two children as witnesses & this man tried to take advantage of an anonymous child!

 

[deugirtni]

I suspect she was 'advised' not to speak (although by whom is an interesting question). The first question that would be asked (and of course was) was 'why was William in foster care' and the answer was probably not something she personally really needed made public as it would expose her history. I also wonder if there were not other 'family' members of William's who are higher profile than her who did not need this information in the media.

I see KT as having been between a rock and a hard place. If one puts her/himself in *her* shoes and thinks in terms of having 2/4 of your kids in foster care, wanting to bring them home, one of them mysteriously disappearing into thin air while under the care of the entity that took the two away from you and deemed you unfit.. I think we could possibly imagine some of the thoughts that may have been going through her mind? However, for her to speak up would have endangered any success she may have felt she may have had in bringing those two children back home to her care at some point. She was danged if she did, and danged if she didn't, imho.

 

[Violet77]

Well yes, that is what LE have been saying, and why GJ has referred to it as a once in a generation crime. The chances of all of those things coming together all at the same time *in addition* to the person who just happened upon this 'golden opportunity' would have had to have been a pedophile with the inclination to take such a huge risk, which makes it even *more* unlikely.

I don't recall *ever* seeing this case referred to as a 'once in a decade' crime, do you have links?

Sure do -

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/link/2818a4e2123acd11a3748e4591003492?domain=theaustralian.com.au

William’s disappearance is a “once in a decade crime”, according to Dr Olav Nielssen, a psychiatrist from the University of NSW who has studied juvenile homicides.

 

[coincidencehasreason]

Another rather unlikely scenario could be , abduct the child and bring him back to place where he "belongs" (bio patents).

But it went horribly wrong, may be child had an asthma attack or suffocated and abductors decided to drive as far as possible and bury/throw the body.

May be somebody who had sympathy with BPs lived in Kendall or surrounds and helped in implementation in some ways and therefore GJ statement that smeone in the area knows something

 

[Violet77]

I see KT as having been between a rock and a hard place. If one puts her/himself in *her* shoes and thinks in terms of having 2/4 of your kids in foster care, wanting to bring them home, one of them mysteriously disappearing into thin air while under the care of the entity that took the two away from you and deemed you unfit.. I think we could possibly imagine some of the thoughts that may have been going through her mind? However, for her to speak up would have endangered any success she may have felt she may have had in bringing those two children back home to her care at some point. She was danged if she did, and danged if she didn't, imho.

I agree. KT also does not seem like the type to be a public “loud mouth” even though her criminal history would suggest that is how she may act in private, or during times of distress, facing the public & media is very different.

 

[iailwa]

@deugirtni --rare things happen rarely-- is a little saying that has always stuck with me, and maybe that's why i think it's possible. It makes me think all these factors can come together. Why not? Two worlds colliding. Hope something is imminent & he's bought home soon

 

[frogwell]

I see KT as having been between a rock and a hard place. If one puts her/himself in *her* shoes and thinks in terms of having 2/4 of your kids in foster care, wanting to bring them home, one of them mysteriously disappearing into thin air while under the care of the entity that took the two away from you and deemed you unfit.. I think we could possibly imagine some of the thoughts that may have been going through her mind? However, for her to speak up would have endangered any success she may have felt she may have had in bringing those two children back home to her care at some point. She was danged if she did, and danged if she didn't, imho.

All that and being very pregnant with another of Wt's siblings.

 

[Wexford]

Would foster parents know this? Would even FACS workers think of it in terms of 'hindering investigations'? I would think FACS would perceive it more as 'protecting children'? jmo.

I'm sure most would not even look at it as being able to hinder investigations. But there are always those who see how to take advantage of a situation as well. In my dealings with FACs and foster parents I have seen workers and parents who are the absolute salt of the earth...and I have seen others who are not so much. I dare say there are worse ones than that. Look at poor Tiahleigh Palmer's case.

 

[Bohemian]

@deugirtni --rare things happen rarely-- is a little saying that has always stuck with me, and maybe that's why i think it's possible. It makes me think all these factors can come together. Why not? Two worlds colliding. Hope something is imminent & he's bought home soon

It can happen. My cul-de-sac has 12 terrace houses. One morning at around 9am I was sitting out on my front verandah, concealed by a tall, bushy shrub. I didn’t immediately see or hear a car or the driver but I did see my neighbour’s 5 year old daughter out of the corner of my eye open her gate and walk towards the road. I got up to tell her to go back inside as her Mum was nowhere in sight or hearing. As I did, she had walked around to the driver’s side of the car where a stranger (a woman) had opened the door and had walked around to meet the girl. I told the girl very firmly to go back inside and asked the woman who she was. She jumped back in her car and took off before I could get her number plate. The car and my neighbour’s daughter were less than 20 feet away from me at most the whole time. They were also in full view of the office of a children’s community centre, the whole event occurred within the space of about 10-15 seconds and no one but me heard or saw a thing. What that woman was up to and why she called a 5 year old girl over to her car, I (and the police) will never know but my neighbour could have lost her daughter in the blink of an eye had someone not happened to be out on their front verandah for mere seconds that day.