Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

[SouthAussie]

It looks as though he might have been ambushed as he was heading into the Legal Aid office.

View attachment 166245

Yes, I think you are right. Good spotting!

I wonder if MSM are keeping an eye on him and followed him there, or if they are receiving tips.

Could be receiving tips, I think - if they were ready and waiting for him.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

Is it normal to have representation at an inquest if you are just a witness or a person who made a statement ? I really don't have any knowledge about inquests.

 

[Violet77]

It could even be that he was witness to something & was threatened into silence.

 

[SouthAussie]

It could even be that he was witness to something & was threatened into silence.

He could have been the one who informed the police that he spotted a 4WD outside grandma's house that morning. And/or that he saw a 4WD leaving the cul-de-sac.
I wonder if he went for his walk that morning. Seems that he went 'most' mornings.

Police believe a 4WD spotted outside the home of missing toddler William Tyrell could shed light on the three-year-old’s disappearance a year ago this week.
Witnesses have recalled a 4WD leaving the cul-de-sac of Benaroon Drive where William disappeared from his grandmother’s home a year ago this Saturday.

The Australian - September 8, 2015

 

[SouthAussie]

Is it normal to have representation at an inquest if you are just a witness or a person who made a statement ? I really don't have any knowledge about inquests.

When reading lawyers' websites about inquests, they recommend a lawyer if a person is a witness.

Appearing as a witness in the coroners court
Coronial Inquests QLD & NSW | McMillan Criminal Law

 

[Blues Clues]

Has there been any mention in MSM that anyone recalls of the neighbour in #35 by anyone other than PS and his son?

From his house directly opposite William’s grandmother’s former home, an elderly man named Paul (surname withheld for privacy reasons) and his son, Sean, have watched long-time friends and neighbours slowly drift away from Benaroon Drive.
“A lot of them have moved,” he says. “One bloke left because he felt intimidated by the police. He had a few problems. He wasn’t a crook or a bad bloke, just a bit of a loner. He wanted out.”
“A recluse,” says Sean. “I think all of the attention sort of frightened him.”
“They were coming around checking everything and he got scared,” Paul says. “Just the fear of that.” He shrugs his shoulders. “You got to let them do their job and they’re still following up on everything. They’re doing a good job.”

I've reached my daily limit on The Australian, can't provide link sorry. The article is titled - Fears Fill Void Little Boy Left.

 

[Warshawski]

I think there's something really off about this legislation. Ostensibly it's for privacy, but cases have shown that it doesn't help when things go really pear shaped. It stops foster kids from having a voice and a public face, which they deserve. It almost de-persons them.

I note it doesn't apply to any foster child who is deceased. So if the upcoming coronial inquiry concludes that William is deceased, and he legally becomes a deceased person, the subsequent, resulting trial for his murderer/s will be public.

I'm with you on those thoughts Eloise.

I've often pondered over Why the Need to Hide the fact that a child is being cared for by a 'Foster' parent / family etc. ?
Why is there a Stigma over that situation? Why do we inflict that on our children? Why should children feel anything but loved & cared for no matter the biological involvement or otherwise ?
IMO, there's numerous children in 'biological' environments who would be so much better off with someone who genuinely cared about them & their welfare... Why is it right or fair for any one in a judiciary position to continue the Stigma with their statements or suggestions for further secrecy.

I'd personally be happy to hear them ruling instead on much better attention, management & funds allocation for the care, support & development of our young - if only from the selfish perspective of preparing for the future ! !

My thoughts on this could go on forever, but I'll spare you in that they don't help find William. Perhaps you'll join me in a prayer as I ask for safety & peace for this precious little boy William; for love, support & peace for all those connected with him & struggling with his disappearance & loss, and for strength and guidance for those invested in solving this awfully sad situation.. Thank you Lord.

 

[Bohemian]

Has there been any mention in MSM that anyone recalls of the neighbour in #35 by anyone other than PS and his son?

From his house directly opposite William’s grandmother’s former home, an elderly man named Paul (surname withheld for privacy reasons) and his son, Sean, have watched long-time friends and neighbours slowly drift away from Benaroon Drive.
“A lot of them have moved,” he says. “One bloke left because he felt intimidated by the police. He had a few problems. He wasn’t a crook or a bad bloke, just a bit of a loner. He wanted out.”
“A recluse,” says Sean. “I think all of the attention sort of frightened him.”
“They were coming around checking everything and he got scared,” Paul says. “Just the fear of that.” He shrugs his shoulders. “You got to let them do their job and they’re still following up on everything. They’re doing a good job.”

I've reached my daily limit on The Australian, can't provide link sorry. The article is titled - Fears Fill Void Little Boy Left.

BBM. Not that I remember, Blue.

 

[SouthAussie]

I've often pondered over Why the Need to Hide the fact that a child is being cared for by a 'Foster' parent / family etc. ?
Why is there a Stigma over that situation? Why do we inflict that on our children? Why should children feel anything but loved & cared for no matter the biological involvement or otherwise ?

The stigma, unfortunately, comes to play in the school environment ... amongst other children. It is sad, but we all know how cruel the taunting between children can be.

For a child who has already suffered the abuse/neglect/whatever that has them removed from their biological parent/s, for a child who then has to readjust to a life living with others, taunting about their removed-then-fostered situation by other children can add further difficulties and heartbreak to their lives.
This type of taunting can be a very negative factor for a child who we all want to feel 'normal', who we all want to go on and do well in their life.

Although it should be a level playing field for all children, it is not.
Their home situations count a lot for all children, who seek and recognise a sense of 'normalcy'.

It is up to the child who they tell that they are fostered, it is not up to the adults to exacerbate the child's situation.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just to add ... there is a lot of reading material out there about the stigma of being a foster child. It is worth reading, when wondering why all the secrecy by the authorities and foster parents.

A couple of examples, but there is much, much more:
https://chronicleofsocialchange.org/child-welfare-2/stigma-associated-youth-foster-care-system
5 Stigmas About Foster Care Children and Foster Parents | Care2 Healthy Living

 

[Bohemian]

Fairly comprehensive explanation of an ‘interested party’ (aka ‘interested person’) and their need for legal representation at an inquest, eg:

‘In a coronial inquest, a particular party may find significant importance in being able to appear and ask questions at the Coroner’s Court. Clearly, if the situation is leaning towards the Police or other agencies laying blame in the matter, then they should be represented. The reason for this is simple; you want to get your point of view across.

However, to be represented at a coroner’s inquest it is necessary to be considered an interested party.

Interested parties are also allowed access to the inquest brief prepared by police. This is very important in trying to assess whether, potentially, criminal charges may be faced at a later point.

[...]

There are several types of relationships that might give rise to sufficient interest and therefore allow a person to attend as an interested party. Obvious examples [in William’s case] include:

• A person or persons closely related to the deceased
• Any person who may have caused or contributed to the death
• Any person who may reasonably anticipate that the coroner may make a finding adverse to their interests’

Appearing as an interested party at a coronial inquest

A more comprehensive explanation:

‘Who may appear at an inquest?
Persons with sufficient interest may be granted leave to appear in inquests and inquiries: s 57. A person with a sufficient interest will generally be a person, natural or corporate, whose reputation may be scrutinised or subject to adverse comment in a coroner’s findings, riders, recommendations or reasons for decision or to whom recommendations may be made.

Unless exceptional circumstances dictate otherwise, relatives of the deceased person, the subject of the inquest, are presumed to have standing: [...]’

‘Parties must seek leave to appear and demonstrate to the coroner that they have an interest to protect by appearing. If they cannot do so, they should be allowed to attend the inquest or inquiry with a watching brief. If a coroner thought it appropriate, he or she might invite a person with a watching brief to make comment or submissions before making findings, but this would be the exception rather than the rule.

Persons granted leave to appear are entitled to be legally represented: s 57.’

Coronial matters [50-020] Death investigation and the coroner

 

[Bohemian]

Fairly comprehensive explanation of an ‘interested party’ (aka ‘interested person’) and their need for legal representation at an inquest, eg:

‘In a coronial inquest, a particular party may find significant importance in being able to appear and ask questions at the Coroner’s Court. Clearly, if the situation is leaning towards the Police or other agencies laying blame in the matter, then they should be represented. The reason for this is simple; you want to get your point of view across.

However, to be represented at a coroner’s inquest it is necessary to be considered an interested party.

Interested parties are also allowed access to the inquest brief prepared by police. This is very important in trying to assess whether, potentially, criminal charges may be faced at a later point.

[...]

There are several types of relationships that might give rise to sufficient interest and therefore allow a person to attend as an interested party. Obvious examples [in William’s case] include:

• A person or persons closely related to the deceased
• Any person who may have caused or contributed to the death
• Any person who may reasonably anticipate that the coroner may make a finding adverse to their interests’

Appearing as an interested party at a coronial inquest

A more comprehensive explanation:

‘Who may appear at an inquest?
Persons with sufficient interest may be granted leave to appear in inquests and inquiries: s 57. A person with a sufficient interest will generally be a person, natural or corporate, whose reputation may be scrutinised or subject to adverse comment in a coroner’s findings, riders, recommendations or reasons for decision or to whom recommendations may be made.

Unless exceptional circumstances dictate otherwise, relatives of the deceased person, the subject of the inquest, are presumed to have standing: [...]’

‘Parties must seek leave to appear and demonstrate to the coroner that they have an interest to protect by appearing. If they cannot do so, they should be allowed to attend the inquest or inquiry with a watching brief. If a coroner thought it appropriate, he or she might invite a person with a watching brief to make comment or submissions before making findings, but this would be the exception rather than the rule.

Persons granted leave to appear are entitled to be legally represented: s 57.’

Coronial matters [50-020] Death investigation and the coroner

See also:

CORONERS ACT 2009 - SECT 57 Representation in coronial proceedings

 

[bearbear]

ive always felt the simplest scenario in williams disappearance is that a person living very close to him took him, and because family have been cleared the next logical person would be a close neighbour, i dont think a stranger drove in at exactly the right time and did this, it had to be someone with a reason to be there and possibly watched/heard the children playing, someone who could grab him and carry him to their home, and quickly drive him out while everyone was distracted with the search, bs and ps may know each other?

 

[Bohemian]

ive always felt the simplest scenario in williams disappearance is that a person living very close to him took him, and because family have been cleared the next logical person would be a close neighbour, i dont think a stranger drove in at exactly the right time and did this, it had to be someone with a reason to be there and possibly watched/heard the children playing, someone who could grab him and carry him to their home, and quickly drive him out while everyone was distracted with the search, bs and ps may know each other?

The only other thing I’ve thought is that William’s disappearance may have been the result of an accident, say an MVA, and someone has covered it up by disposing of William’s remains on their own behalf or that of one of their family members. I don’t know about any conspiracy between Spedding and Savage. That doesn’t seem to be a simple explanation for William’s disappearance to me.

 

[bearbear]

yes an accident covered up is another explanation, so do you think its not likely to be a neighbour, i always thought how easy for someone to hide on their property and watch him play then grab him or lure him over with a toy, then easily drive him to the forest 20 mins away while everyone searches?
maybe ps was a witness or has knowledge of a neighbours habits?
no i dont think theres any conspiracy between bs and ps either, just wondering where/if bs fits in with this

 

[Bohemian]

yes an accident covered up is another explanation, so do you think its not likely to be a neighbour, i always thought how easy for someone to hide on their property and watch him play then grab him or lure him over with a toy, then easily drive him to the forest 20 mins away while everyone searches?
maybe ps was a witness or has knowledge of a neighbours habits?

I think if it was an accident, it could have been anyone who was living in, visiting or working in Benaroon Drive. I’m not sure if William’s disappearance was as well-planned as someone laying in wait for him. I think they saw their opportunity and took it. They may have lured him into a car or they could have snatched him from the roadside and taken him elsewhere. It could have been 20 minutes, or 20 kms away, or more. Who knows?

As for Savage, I think his involvement may be a little more than simply being a witness, or innocent bystander, if you will. He has indicated that he is seeking legal representation at the inquest which smacks of him being an ‘interested person/party’ to me (see definition above).

 

[SouthAussie]

The only other thing I’ve thought is that William’s disappearance may have been the result of an accident, say an MVA, and someone has covered it up by disposing of William’s remains on their own behalf or that of one of their family members. I don’t know about any conspiracy between Spedding and Savage. That doesn’t seem to be a simple explanation for William’s disappearance to me.

An MVA ranks pretty low on my list ... mostly because in my own personal experience, nothing much happens to a person who is guilty of negligent driving. I would think particularly if it involved a young child who ran out into the street.
My eldest niece was killed (many years ago, we have dealt with our personal feelings now) by a negligent driver, who was even driving using his brother's license. Not one thing happened to him. An investigation, no charges laid, even though my niece was found to have done nothing wrong - this happened in Victoria.

Though, it is pretty clear that Jubes has considered an MVA.

I agree about the conspiracy. I don't believe such a thing happened. One perp, one mighty big secret. imo

 

[Bohemian]

An MVA ranks pretty low on my list ... mostly because in my own personal experience, nothing much happens to a person who is guilty of negligent driving. I would think particularly if it involved a young child who ran out into the street.
My eldest niece was killed (many years ago, we have dealt with our personal feelings now) by a negligent driver, who was even driving using his brother's license. Not one thing happened to him. An investigation, no charges laid, even though my niece was found to have done nothing wrong - this happened in Victoria.

Though, it is pretty clear that Jubes has considered an MVA.

I agree about the conspiracy. I don't believe such a thing happened. One perp, one mighty big secret. imo

Yes, like Jubes, an MVA is just one of a few possibilities I’ve thought of. We know that negligent driving in the case of an MVA may not attract a penalty, but not everyone does. Some people may panic in the case of an accident and want to hide their crime.

I know you and your family may have dealt with your grief but still I’m sorry for the loss of your niece, SA.

I’m not a big believer in any conspiracies in William’s case; except for the ‘someone [who] knows something’. Even in that case, I believe that it wasn’t a true conspiracy but more knowing after the fact, therefore concealing a serious crime. I’m more one of the KISS crew in this case. Yep, one perp; one big secret.

 

[bearbear]

i wonder if william was in the white 4wd seen speeding out of the street/area that day?

 

[Bohemian]

i wonder if william was in the white 4wd seen speeding out of the street/area that day?

Me too. Hopefully, the mystery of William’s disappearance will be solved and we will know all of the answers soon. I have high hopes that some resolution will come from William’s inquest.