Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

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SouthAussie said:
Though, that still amounts to perjury, as a magistrate would have to authorise a search warrant or surveillance warrant. Perjury is something that I don't believe that Jubes would risk for himself or for his other officers.
He is too well experienced for that. That would be a rookie type of move. imo

Really good that we are all starting to think about the options. Instead of just bagging Jubes and assuming the worst.
They have all been praised by the chief of the division for the excellent efforts of the investigative team.
As well as the NSW Premier, Gladys Berejiklian, thanking Jubes for his contribution.
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The breach is only an allegation at this stage as far as I know. I could see this originating from BS and his lawyer. They find out (from the inquest papers?) that BS has been listened to, and the lawyer thinks to investigate the background to the warrant. BS denies what might be a detail, a difference of memory perhaps, and having a long-established dislike for Jubelin and being enmeshed in legal proceedings anyway, decides to run with it.
 
JLZ said:
The breach is only an allegation at this stage as far as I know. I could see this originating from BS and his lawyer. They find out (from the inquest papers?) that BS has been listened to, and the lawyer thinks to investigate the background to the warrant. BS denies what might be a detail, a difference of memory perhaps, and having a long-established dislike for Jubelin and being enmeshed in legal proceedings anyway, decides to run with it.
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I couldn't agree with you more. His lawyer seems to be an aggressive type, too, judging by his verbal warning to attending journos. And with a lot of money at stake for himself via the defamation suits (presumably 1/3 of any awarded funds, as per usual terms).

Just doing 'the best for his client' despite the havoc it wreaks to William's case.
 
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SouthAussie said:
I couldn't agree with you more. His lawyer seems to be an aggressive type, too, judging by his verbal warning to attending journos. And with a lot of money at stake for himself via the defamation suits (presumably 1/3 of any awarded funds, as per usual terms).

Just doing 'the best for his client' despite the havoc it wreaks to William's case.
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Havoc to the justice system and to William. Treat everyone in accordance to the laws regulations and guidelines and there us no damage to William's case. Do the alternative and damage is caused
to William's case. The allegations are very serious. Jubelin jumped what damage did that cause? If the allegations are founded then he must wear the consequences.

I doubt whether the allegations involve Spedding or his legal in any way. If they do it is his lawful right to raise them.
 
papertrail said:
Havoc to the justice system and to William. Treat everyone in accordance to the laws regulations and guidelines and there us no damage to William's case. Do the alternative and damage is caused
to William's case. The allegations are very serious. Jubelin jumped what damage did that cause? If the allegations are founded then he must wear the consequences.
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I agreed to disagree with you on this, as per TOS.
I only responded to the last post #676 because I actually agreed with it.
 
Ms Cadfael said:
Good point... im not sure myself? Does anyone here know if an affidavit from the officer/police, needs to be presented to the court/judge along with the warrant? Or does the warrant and oral evidence suffice??
TIA!
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There is a warrant application form that is filled out by the officer applying for the warrant. The officer must detail in the application why the warrant is sought. I do not believe an affidavit is made out.

An affidavit is normally a document that is made out in preparation for a court matter. Not in an application process for a warrant as part of an investigation.
 
Ms Cadfael said:
Good point... im not sure myself? Does anyone here know if an affidavit from the officer/police, needs to be presented to the court/judge along with the warrant? Or does the warrant and oral evidence suffice??
TIA!
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I found a report of a Victorian incident where the judge was at fault for having granted a surveillance warrant on the basis of a police officer's "unsworn affidavit". So it seems that at least in Victoria, affidavits are used in support of warrant applications.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ased-on-unlawful-searches-20111025-1mi3y.html
 
I mentioned previously today that I believed a police officer who prepared a brief is also required to make out an affidavit that is attached to the brief

The below link takes you to the transcript of the latest Bowraville appeal. Jubelin prepared thmhe brief for the Attorney General who made the appeal application. There are 6 occasions in the doc attachment where reference is made to an Affidavit by Jubelin.

I am not insinuating this Affidavit is the one that is subject of current allegation of falsifying affidavits as per media. I have used the attached to show that Jubelin prepared an Affidavit as part of the Brief process.

Attorney General for New South Wales v XX [2018] NSWCCA 198 (13 September 2018)
 
JLZ said:
I found a report of a Victorian incident where the judge was at fault for having granted a surveillance warrant on the basis of a police officer's "unsworn affidavit". So it seems that at least in Victoria, affidavits are used in support of warrant applications.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ased-on-unlawful-searches-20111025-1mi3y.html
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Here is an explanation for NSW processes.
Surveillance Devices Act 2007 (NSW) - Wikipedia

And here is the Oaths Act 1900 NSW referred to in above link.
NSW Legislation
 
Ms Cadfael said:
Is "sworn and affirmed" the same as an affidavit? I found this detail-
In New South Wales, applications for search warrants must be made in writing and they must be sworn or affirmed to be true and correct. The relevant laws in New South Wales are in Part 5 of the Law Enforcement (Powers & Responsibilities) Act 2002, Division 3 of the Crime Commission Act (NSW) 2012, and in Section 3E of the Crimes Act (Commonwealth) 1914.

Police Search Warrants in NSW | Understand Criminal Law
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I wish we could find an actual search warrant ... see if it contains a part that says "I swear and affirm this". Or if a covering affidavit is required.

Though, I think all this fuss might be as JLZ theorised .. yet-unproven allegations by a lawyer on behalf of their POI client.
 
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From the NSW Ombudsman, BBM:

Surveillance device warrants are issued by eligible Judges of the Supreme Court or eligible Magistrates in the case of a surveillance device warrant authorising the use of a tracking device only, or f or a retrieval warrant in respect of a tracking device. Appli cations must include certain information and be accompanied by an affidavit setting out the grounds for se eking the warrant. While the inspection of the records includes an examination of the matters required to be specified, it does not examine the sufficiency or otherwise of the information p rovided in support of the application. That i s for the relevant judicial officer to determine.
https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/l...69774/Ombudsman s 49 Surveillance Devices.pdf (page 2)
 
SouthAussie said:
I wish we could find an actual search warrant ... see if it contains a part that says "I swear and affirm this". Or if a covering affidavit is required.

Though, I think all this fuss might be as JLZ theorised .. yet-unproven allegations by a lawyer on behalf of their POI client.
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The warrant itself would probably only feature the judge's authorisation for such-and-such to be done. Any affidavit would form part of the application for warrant.
 
Thebottomline said:
Where are you William ?
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I know this is upsetting, TBL. And is not helping to find William, at all. I feel the same way myself. But if we hash this out properly, instead of some just bagging Jubes, we may find where there was a slip up, or a malicious complaint, regarding this yet-unproven allegation ... that only one MSM source is alleging.
More reputable sources like The Australian, ABC, SBS (imo) have said nothing about this particular allegation, at all.

Jubes is far too experienced to do something that might attract a perjury charge.

But some people are not so caring as to not try to disrupt William's investigation, and have two officers removed from the case. imo
 
It seems that with an affidavit, in addition to the signing and witnessing, the deponent needs to verbally take an oath or make an affirmation as to the truth of the document before the authorized witness. New laws for witnessing affidavits, statutory declarations and affirmations Apparently in the past with respect to warrant applications this was sometimes not done, so the judge or magistrate would see the prepared document and assume that as it was appropriately signed, the oath had also been taken--when it hadn't. That might well be called "falsifying an affidavit".
 
SouthAussie said:
I couldn't agree with you more. His lawyer seems to be an aggressive type, too, judging by his verbal warning to attending journos. And with a lot of money at stake for himself via the defamation suits (presumably 1/3 of any awarded funds, as per usual terms).

Just doing 'the best for his client' despite the havoc it wreaks to William's case.
Click to expand...

I think you are being a little harsh regarding BS and his lawyer. "Doing the best for his client" is actually doing the job he is paid to do. Hopefully, we all do our best in our jobs we are paid to do.
If the reason Jubelin left is because he did something outside the law regarding BS, then that is no-one's fault but his own. You talk about damaging William's case, but, if BS is innocent, should he just accept being collateral damage?
 
louisepiglet said:
........ if BS is innocent, should he just accept being collateral damage?
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Snipped by me

Let me think about that.

Spedding (a man who has been charged with historical child sex crimes with no outcome published)
VS
Jubes (a man who has done so much good in his life for all of NSW)


Pretty sure I will come down on the side of Jubes every time.
 
I don't think you have to sign an affidavit to apply for a Search Warrant. According to the link below, Search Warrants can also be applied for by Telephone/Fax etc.

There are penalties for giving false information in the actual application however it is applied for.

I doubt that this is what is being mentioned in regard to Falsifying Affidavits.

LAW ENFORCEMENT (POWERS AND RESPONSIBILITIES) ACT 2002 - SECT 63 False or misleading information in applications

I also don't think it has anything to do with BS, I do however believe it has something to do with the person that had Bio's names made public :oops:
 
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