Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

[SouthAussie]

The Coroner's investigation team check everything briefed up.

Could I please see the link that speaks of this?

I have always been under the impression that the Coroner sends the police back to re-investigate if there is anything that the Coroner thinks needs further investigation.

I would like to learn more about this Coroner's investigation team. I have googled but cannot find anything about it myself.

 

[SouthAussie]

It will be interesting to see what the allegations against Jubelin involving falsifying affidavits as detailed in a media link I posted a couple of days ago.

Possibility of mis-reporting by the media too. MFC did leave Benaroon at around 9am and he does drive a dark grey 4wd.

BBM
Highly possible that the info that Brenden Hills has written about that specific said allegation against Jubes is mis-reporting, as well.

I have full access to that Telegraph article, as well as the two others (The Advertiser and The Daily Mail) that repeated Brenden Hills' words ... and quoted the Telegraph as the source.

I find it very interesting that no other independent MSM source has reported that specific allegation. None that I can find anyway. I would feel more comfortable about said allegation if a reputable source had supplied the information, instead of an unknown source to a reporter who published it in their very lengthy article re-iterating the things that we already know.

 

[SouthAussie]

Where do you have that information from? Is this thread about William or a beat up of GJ

There is a lot that is not being mentioned here, TBL.

Jubes is taking a lot of beating, but The Telegraph article also mentions how DS Lambert (the other officer in the 'altercation') was given leave, then reassigned to the Unsolved Homicide Review division when he returned.
Both Lambert and Jubes were taken off William's case.

William's SFR lost not just one but two experienced officers who both knew much about the investigation.

It is a very sad situation for William and all who love him.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Thebottomline]

There is a lot that is not being mentioned here, TBL.

Jubes is taking a lot of beating, but The Telegraph article also mentions how DS Lambert (the other officer in the 'altercation') was given leave, then reassigned to the Unsolved Homicide Review division when he returned.
Both Lambert and Jubes were taken off William's case.

William's SFR lost not just one but two experienced officers who both knew much about the investigation.

It is a very sad situation for William and all who love him.

The FF carers were reported to be devastated . Hopefully they will continue to keep contact with GJ. Maybe he can now give them a little more info about the case ?

 

[SouthAussie]

More like Jubelin's focus on Spedding once put him in the picture as you say but things seemed to have changed now. .... (snipped by me, as not relevant to my reply) ....

Since Jubelin's removal from the case there appears to be a different focus.

It does not seem that the focus is any different to when Jubes was on this case.


"(An inquest) makes us go over all the evidence collected in the last four years - it's an enormous task," Homicide Squad commander Scott Cook said.
"The coroner will consider that and may well ask us to do further things.”

A spokesperson from NSW Police said a ‘small pool of high risk persons of interest are actively being investigated’.
Detective Superintendent Cook praised the investigators working on the case for their "excellent work".
A police source told AAP detectives working on William's case will push for specific persons of interest - those "at the top of the list" - to give evidence at the inquest.

Many of the people have never been named in the media, the police source said, adding only "some names" came out publicly during the investigation.

Coronial inquest to shine spotlight on Tyrrell persons of interest

 

[frogwell]

There is a lot that is not being mentioned here, TBL.

Jubes is taking a lot of beating, but The Telegraph article also mentions how DS Lambert (the other officer in the 'altercation') was given leave, then reassigned to the Unsolved Homicide Review division when he returned.
Both Lambert and Jubes were taken off William's case.

William's SFR lost not just one but two experienced officers who both knew much about the investigation.

It is a very sad situation for William and all who love him.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

This article is paywalled, would you please copy and paste the relevant paragraphs and tell us the date of the article? TIA

 

[SouthAussie]

This article is paywalled, would you please copy and paste the relevant paragraphs and tell us the date of the article? TIA

No official complaint was made about the Det Lambert v Det Jubelin incident, which was witnessed by several other officers who helped break up the heated confrontation in the homicide squad offices.

After a short time on leave, Det Sgt Lambert returned to the SCC earlier this year but was rostered to a position on the Unsolved Homicide Review Team.

Brenden Hills, Court Reporter, The Sunday Telegraph
March 30, 2019 11:30pm

 

[Freddo Frog]

Ah yes a known relative or associate & that’s where I have that unshakable 6 degrees of separation but the immediate BF & FCers have been cleared.
IMO if our cops didn’t have an open mind on who took William we’d all still ONLY be looking at a washing machine man, the GAPA’s of the area or this world wide pedophile ring.
That’s still on the table but, unbeknownst to us, we now have some questionable neighbours.

TGY - this is not a direct question for you, rather, merely piggy-backing off your post.

"Police have not drawn the positive conclusion that a known relative or associate was not involved in William's disappearance," Mr Craddock said.

Seventy-four per cent of children who are abducted and murdered by strangers are killed within three hours of being abducted, the court heard.

But "William is not a statistic", Mr Craddock warned, and the court makes decisions based on evidence.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...he-vanished-inquest-told-20190324-p51739.html

And this makes me wonder... again, if the IMMEDIATE parents (bio or foster) have been cleared, as per Jubelin, does this bring us back to NC's associates as we have discussed previously?

Additionally, the "William is not a statistic" quote from Craddock makes me wonder what he means. Is he not a statistic because he is still presumed to be alive, or not been abducted by a stranger, or he has died and it was not within the three hours? Is Craddock warning people to not write William off as dead? To not dismiss or trivialise his disappearance?

I wish there was some kind of Q&A session we could do with the Coroner, I feel like there are so many cryptic statements being made (but they are probably erring on the side of caution I guess).

 

[Freddo Frog]

Not to mention the BGMA and her media appearances. I don't think that BD needed that kind of exposure about his habits and behaviour. It seems as though this event with William has broken him, something the whole country likely didn't need to hear if he has any chance of recovery and living a normal life with good job prospects.

My heart really goes out to the BF. I originally had suspicions that William's disappearance may have been the result of some kind of payback to him (admittedly, I suspected it was for a drug debt or something drug-related), but I now do not think he had anything to do with the disappearance. I feel like he is genuinely broken and desperately trying to get his life on track but his mother is his biggest hinderance. I feel she is an enabler or some kind. I have no respect for her as I have stated that a few times in previous threads.

 

[sleepinoz]

Side note - it's interesting to see that despite the suppression orders in place certain names have not been redacted in this article.

Because there were many articles written prior to the NPO, they won't change them. It really doesn't apply to anything outside the time frame of the Inquest.

If repeated, you are certainly breaking the NPO's that the Coroner has installed.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Because there were many articles written prior to the NPO, they won't change them. It really doesn't apply to anything outside the time frame of the Inquest.

If repeated, you are certainly breaking the NPO's that the Coroner has installed.

Fair enough, but there have been so many articles that we have gone back to down the track that have been modified, so I would have presumed anything mentioning their names would have been edited. MSM can be so frustrating.

 

[SouthAussie]

TGY - this is not a direct question for you, rather, merely piggy-backing off your post.

"Police have not drawn the positive conclusion that a known relative or associate was not involved in William's disappearance," Mr Craddock said.

Seventy-four per cent of children who are abducted and murdered by strangers are killed within three hours of being abducted, the court heard.

But "William is not a statistic", Mr Craddock warned, and the court makes decisions based on evidence.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...he-vanished-inquest-told-20190324-p51739.html

And this makes me wonder... again, if the IMMEDIATE parents (bio or foster) have been cleared, as per Jubelin, does this bring us back to NC's associates as we have discussed previously?

Additionally, the "William is not a statistic" quote from Craddock makes me wonder what he means. Is he not a statistic because he is still presumed to be alive, or not been abducted by a stranger, or he has died and it was not within the three hours? Is Craddock warning people to not write William off as dead? To not dismiss or trivialise his disappearance?

I wish there was some kind of Q&A session we could do with the Coroner, I feel like there are so many cryptic statements being made (but they are probably erring on the side of caution I guess).

There are so many known associates in this picture, aren't there?
Known associates could also mean a person FGMA knows on Benaroon Drive or in the village, a person FGMA knows because they have done work at her house, a person that any of them know who is not considered to be a friend .... associate really only means a person connected to another person through any variety of means.

William may not be considered a statistic because he is many people's dear little loved one. Craddock may have been trying to emphasise the real humanity in this case, I think.

 

[they'll get you]

Because there were many articles written prior to the NPO, they won't change them. It really doesn't apply to anything outside the time frame of the Inquest.

If repeated, you are certainly breaking the NPO's that the Coroner has installed.

Side note - it's interesting to see that despite the suppression orders in place certain names have not been redacted in this article.

I should've known better & that was my mistake as I quoted it directly from the article

 

[they'll get you]

Just to add to that, they couldn't see number plates from the Tennis court CCTV:

“Unfortunately, it’s not a head on or behind shot where we would have number plates, it’s only descriptions of cars."

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

There could be a vehicle with distinguishing roof racks, wheel rims or even sign writing.
I remember the cops asked for anyone driving any Holden Captivas in the vicinity of a roundabout in the murder of Allison Baden-Clay and the same went for any black Mercedes Coups in the hunt for Karen Ristevski's murderer.
It's the process of elimination.
Vehicles can yield a multitude of secrets.

 

[papertrail]

I don’t think Jubelin in any way would have jeopardised Williams case in any way. Such a shame to lose him.

He was removed for a good reason obviously.

 

[papertrail]

Where do you have that information from? Is this thread about William or a beat up of GJ

Yes it is about William and Jubelin was chief of Rosann Taskforce and very serious allegations were raised about his actions including falsifying affidavits during the time as detailed in the media and linked upthread and he was Chief and he was removed.

This article gives a very clear explanation about background processes for a Coronial Inquiry. The Coronial investigation team still includes police and the services of a senior counsel who is currently Mr Craddock. The Coroner's responsibility is to investigate a suspected death.
Coronial matters

The Coroner does not carry out a Coronial Inquiry on behalf of the Police. Coroners have much greater power than Police do.

 

[papertrail]

All information in the media indicated a person of great interest was to be questioned on 1st day of the inquest and that person had not been previously identified as a person of interest. So who is it?

 

[SouthAussie]

All information in the media indicated a person of great interest was to be questioned on 1st day of the inquest and that person had not been previously identified as a person of interest. So who is it?

On the first day of the inquest?

I thought it was during the second round of the inquest, with the first day and first sitting of the inquest laying out the circumstances of William's disappearance and relevant info pertaining to that .....


The closely-guarded persons of interest list, which ballooned to include hundreds of names over the years, has been whittled down for the inquest’s second sitting in August.
Some names on that list have been previously released by police but sources say one so-far unidentified person will be watched closely when they are called in front of the inquest.
‘Where’s the red?’: Mum’s frantic search

 

[SouthAussie]

He was removed for a good reason obviously.

I wonder why Lambert was removed? Same reason?
No point in continually saying that Jubes allegedly did wrong when he wasn't the only senior officer that was moved elsewhere.
For all we know they both were subject to an internal investigation, but Lambert is less 'newsworthy'.
Or they both were subject to huge stress, due to this case, and needed to be removed from the stress ... for their own benefit and the benefit of the other strike force personnel.

The strike force has suffered hugely with the loss of these two officers and their combined case knowledge. imo
And both officers have likely suffered from the years of stress they have been under. They are normal human beings with feelings and health effects, like us all.


"Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin ..... has been behind a desk in the State Crime Command’s executive offices on level nine, away from his homicide squad colleagues.

After a short time on leave, Det Sgt Lambert returned to the SCC earlier this year but was rostered to a position on the Unsolved Homicide Review Team."

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
How desperate search for missing William Tyrrell split strike force
Brenden Hills, Court Reporter, The Sunday Telegraph
March 30, 2019 11:30pm

 

[SouthAussie]

I think another thing to be taken into consideration is that Jubes was not put on administrative leave while the internal investigation was carried out. That, to me, shows the lack of gravity of the allegations.
(What kind of leave did Lambert take? That has not been revealed.)

If this had been a serious infraction of some kind, the force does not keep an officer on active duty. They step them down onto administrative leave while they investigate.
It is possible that the allegations are malicious, and the police know that, but they have to internally investigate anyway to show that they have done the right thing.

Jubes is a far too important and effective officer for the force to lose him ... but now they will lose him, of his own accord.