I think I agree with your last sentence, if we're talking about health care costs. Perhaps I'd prefer to expand Medicare allowances for mental health treatment to include everyone who qualified on a clinical needs basis. At present you can get 10 psychologist visits a year, which isn't enough for someone presenting in an acute state. That's if you're able to find a practitioner who bulk bills. I have the impression BM talked about those sort of problems in her TV interview but I may be misremembering.
Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #42
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Bohemian
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You’re preaching to the converted here regarding the lack of mental health treatment, JLZ. Although, despite our hardships and socioeconomic status, we battle through, even in the face of heartbreaking tragedy.
As far as I know there is another avenue for the family and friends of missing persons to receive free counselling and join support group meetings; through the Families and Friends of Missing Persons Unit(FFMPU) of the Department of Justice. Hopefully, all of William’s loved ones are taking advantage of those services.
Help for families and friends of missing persons
https://www.missingpersons.justice.nsw.gov.au/Documents/fs_what-to-expect.pdf
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Bohemian
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I think it was released to the legal representatives, not sure about MSM. They might have to report on it as it happens.
Thank you for your detailed notes and thoughts Papertrail.
I agree that it is unlikely that William disappeared 20 minutes before the 000 call. I don’t think we will ever know how long it was from when the FFM last heard William to when she then started looking for him. I think your time of 26 minutes is more likely.
I was surprised it took them as long as it did to call the police. I know, that the podcast went out of its way to say that they called the police a lot earlier than what's normally done. Even saying that research produced at the inquest backed this up, apparently, it normally takes parents two hours to call the police when their child goes missing. But I’d really like to see this research, I mean what age do they define a “child” as? William was so young, I would have thought you’d call earlier than that especially if he had been missing for say longer i.e. 26 minutes. Of course, easy to judge in retrospect.
I also enjoyed Dennis Martin’s insights. Looking forward to seeing what the police have in this regard at the inquest (vehicle movement, petrol stops, toll roads, CTV, mobile phone data etc...).
On second listen to the podcast, I picked up something that’s new to me – the FF don’t think that William wandered down the slope towards the road (bolded by me).
6:14 FFC: “So what made me think that he was snatched, that somebody had taken him? Was the fact that I couldn’t see him going into the bush. I couldn’t see him running down the slope to the street.
6:29 MFC: Nup, he just wouldn’t do it.” (ref: One Last Roar)
So where exactly do they think he was snatched from? Just around the corner from where they were sitting?
Remember that this goes against what Jubelin thought happened, that William wandered down the slope and was taken by someone near the road as described in his 60minutes interview from 2015.
11:00 REPORTER: “Detective Jubelin believes William wandered down the slope towards the tree where he’d been playing with his mother just an hour before.
11:11 JUBELIN: I'm looking here and thinking, well a child’s not going to wander up in the bush, it’s a steep hill, it’s thick bush, it’s scary for a 3-year-old child, it’s scary. There’s a fence line there, I can’t see him going through the fence line. I can see a child wandering off down the slope.” (ref: https://www.youtube.com/nTh6DM5FEAY)
Further in the interview the reporter says:
8:52 REPORTER: “(Jubelin) discounts the idea an abductor ran up the yard and onto the property to take the little boy.” (ref: https://www.youtube.com/0H5fhsGSVOM&t=673s)
So again, do the FF believe he was abducted from next to the house? I guess not cordoning off the yard would make finding any evidence of William being abducted closer to the house (if that's the case?) difficult.
6:14 FFC: “So what made me think that he was snatched, that somebody had taken him? Was the fact that I couldn’t see him going into the bush. I couldn’t see him running down the slope to the street.
6:29 MFC: Nup, he just wouldn’t do it.” (ref: One Last Roar)
So where exactly do they think he was snatched from? Just around the corner from where they were sitting?
Remember that this goes against what Jubelin thought happened, that William wandered down the slope and was taken by someone near the road as described in his 60minutes interview from 2015.
11:00 REPORTER: “Detective Jubelin believes William wandered down the slope towards the tree where he’d been playing with his mother just an hour before.
11:11 JUBELIN: I'm looking here and thinking, well a child’s not going to wander up in the bush, it’s a steep hill, it’s thick bush, it’s scary for a 3-year-old child, it’s scary. There’s a fence line there, I can’t see him going through the fence line. I can see a child wandering off down the slope.” (ref: https://www.youtube.com/nTh6DM5FEAY)
Further in the interview the reporter says:
8:52 REPORTER: “(Jubelin) discounts the idea an abductor ran up the yard and onto the property to take the little boy.” (ref: https://www.youtube.com/0H5fhsGSVOM&t=673s)
So again, do the FF believe he was abducted from next to the house? I guess not cordoning off the yard would make finding any evidence of William being abducted closer to the house (if that's the case?) difficult.
frogwell
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I haven't listened to the podcast as yet but it is an interesting point you make. What comes to mind for me is from around the area of the lower driveway. One of my thoughts was that in a previous interview the FFC called out to WT, "can you see Daddy's car?:" and then noted that there was no response. There has also been reference to the MFC regularly texting when he was 5 minutes away so that the children could come out and greet him. He seemed to be expected back at the time WT was noticed missing and I thought in one of the more recent articles since the coronial inquest that it was said that the FFC took both children into the back yard to look out for the MFC as they were growing restless, but I am unclear on that last point. I also wonder if the MFC parked the car they were using in the lower driveway and left from there which would maybe give WT the idea to hang around that section of the yard when he was running around the corner and hiding. The idea of him hanging around the upper driveway and carport is more troublesome to me because I would think that a vehichle would be heard from the patio at that point. The lower driveway, maybe not. I have always felt it was around that section of the yard was where WT disappeared from. IMO
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Bohemian
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Do you think it’s possible that, in the early stages of William’s disappearance, his FP considered that his BP or persons associated with them may have abducted him?
Later, once DCI Jubelin had ruled out a familial abduction, and had satisfied himself that William’s disappearance wasn’t due to misadventure, he then formed a hypothesis that William must’ve ventured further down his FGM’s yard, had been abducted by a person(s) unknown and transported by vehicle.
frogwell
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Yes, I think in the early stages the FP considered the BP could be responsible. I don't think that theory was truly ruled out for GJ based on what Counsel assisting the Coroner has stated in his opening address that extended family and associates cannot positively be ruled out. Besides that scenario, I think other scenarios have not been able to have the door closed upon them definitively and a theory about BS and those cars has developed as well. IMO
No being on hold before getting the operator? I have done this, but I can't remember. And as it was a while ago, it's likely they've trimmed their staff numbers since then.
Great points Frogwell.
Yes, it seems the MFC arrival home was something the kids always looked forward to so I can definitely imagine William waiting in the driveway for him, maybe he heard something and ventured around to see. Especially if, like you said, they parked in the lower driveway.
Okay, I've found a reference from the inquest to what you said about the children growing restless and then going to see if they could see the MFC's car.
“(FFC) told the court that William had been “getting very bored” just before he vanished and they were waiting for his foster father to return from the nearby town of Laurieton.
She had been expecting her husband to return from a visit to the chemist and a telephone conference meeting between 10.15am and 10.30am that morning.
“William’s sister was still drawing,” she said.
“He was getting very bored with the game. He was running up and down.
“I said to William (and his sister) ‘you know what? Why don’t we go down and see if Daddy’s car is here yet’.” (ref: William Tyrrell’s foster mum heard a 'high-pitched' scream while searching)
The FFC says “down" (as bolded by me above) which makes me think she’s referring to the lower driveway?
Also, she says this was "just before he vanished" which really does seem to give a legit reason as to why he may wander.
I don't have a time reference but in the podcast (I think the most recent episode) they say something along the lines of, 'the FP never suspected the BP'. Which is kind of surprising? You would think because of the BPs history of hiding William from authorities they might think they were capable of taking him unless they didn't know about this? Further to this, it seems the FP really didn't think anyone knew that they were there as it was, in their words, a "surprise" visit, that no one (including the BPs) knew about.
Okay, found the actual quote from the latest podcast episode:
46:32 HARRIS: “So obviously the police initially began questioning them about this situation with the birth family. FFC and MFF actually immediately declared that they didn’t believe the birth family could be responsible for it. But, police certainly did feel there was a strong possibility this was a case of parental abduction.”
(ref: One Last Roar)
Thebottomline
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Every scenario that comes up seems almost impossible to have gone unnoticed. This really is the most baffling case.
frogwell
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I have needed to use a service recently and there was a waiting time which was long and surprising but the waiting time was from the service to a vehichle to respond which meant that until the vehichle to respond was confirmed I was stuck on the line giving feedback of the situation and taking instructions from the service. Whilst writing that, I was thinking about the 1st responder being quite close by when the call came in which was quite lucky. He was from Kendall and was in the area and knew the street when he 1st came to the house. I imagine that he was based at either Kew or Laurieton police stations which are quite close by.
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Apologies for not providing a link.....
It was recently said the interest and information generated by Thomas Hedley's Teachers Pet podcast and the resulting charges was one of the reasons for a podcast for William. Lia Harris hoped the Where's William Podcast would bring new information to assist the investigation.
It was recently said the interest and information generated by Thomas Hedley's Teachers Pet podcast and the resulting charges was one of the reasons for a podcast for William. Lia Harris hoped the Where's William Podcast would bring new information to assist the investigation.
mussopossum
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From the first day Williams disapearance hit MSM that he was missing it was evident that William had not wandered off ( I say this after the first few hours searching) as the time they realised he was missing and the time the search started and ended that day, IMO a child that age just couldnt get far. The amount searchers at the time and ground covered they would found him. Cant remember how close the nearest body of water was.... I know there was a creek or something close that was searched later but they would have found him IMOO. When did they first suspect that William did not wander off / get lost? Was it after the dogs were brought in and failed to detect any scent passed the driveway of William? With the recent MSM articles from the FF saying that the area was not sealed off and forensic material lost due to the amount foot traffic it leads me to beleive that there was never a hint of thought that he may have been abducted in the beginning by the police or the FP. When did they finally have that heart wrenching consideration / thought?
they'll get you
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Without going back to the very first posts I remember zooming into the drains thinking he could’ve climbed/fallen or followed a cat down into one so for the first couple of days we all were thinking he was a little boy lost but we considered an abduction.
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