Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[sosocurious]

The hiding time is all right but PS would have had to encounter William and conceal him somewhere temporarily well after returning from his first walk and before his wife left for bingo. And also be at home on the landline 9:59 to 10:07. Perhaps he was so often doing stuff in his sheds that his wife didn't notice when he wasn't around.

He was helping his wife clean up the kitchen.

 

[SouthAussie]

Back in 2015 I would like to know what led the police to believe William was still alive? I get that there was zero evidence to conclude otherwise but in most missing persons cases you rarely see after a period of that time that law enforcement has much hope a victim is still alive.

Did they believe he was alive? Or were they operating on the presumption that unless otherwise discovered they were going to investigate as if he was alive?

I don't think they really thought that William was still alive.

“The worst case is not that a body is found,” Jubelin says. “The worst case is that a body is never found.” - 18th Apr 2015

Australian Crime News

 

[sosocurious]

Interesting choice of schools, considering Frank Abbott's location. Coincidence?

Seems they might have, unsurprisingly, been onto Frank Abbott a long time ago.
I wonder what police have that could place him in Kendall on 12th Sept. Probably something to do with Geoff Owen, I would think.

Interesting, too ... possible sighting in Casino. Of all the places. Wish we knew if Savage went to visit his brother later on.

I also wish we knew what 'some evidence' Jubes has.

I thought that maybe you would visit a few schools in the area doing education.
Interesting Heron Creek was mentioned given what we now know.

 

[sosocurious]

Did they believe he was alive? Or were they operating on the presumption that unless otherwise discovered they were going to investigate as if he was alive?

I don't think they really thought that William was still alive.

“The worst case is not that a body is found,” Jubelin says. “The worst case is that a body is never found.” - 18th Apr 2015

Australian Crime News

An exchange of correspondence, seen by The Australian, confirms that “an inquest will proceed in William’s case” after it was referred to Coroner Michael Barnes for consideration in January 2015.
“All coronial matters, not just this matter, take a significant amount of time and resources to proceed to inquest. Some matters can take a few years,” said one of the letters, written by Coroner’s Court registrar Ann Lambino.
Nocookies
The Australian January 16, 2017

 

[JWSleuth]

Perhaps it provided him a perfect excuse for another trip into the bush to see Lyn ..

Lols. Imagine they break him and he finally admits.... to be keeping warm with Lyn and he NFI what was going on.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

From memory there was nothing of any significance found on the CCTV at the tennis club ( from my memory of the 1st tranche of the inquest) & the view of the road was very limited. I'm not able to check my notes atm.

Interesting!

 

[JLZ]

I found a very fair blonde woman in one of the early search pictures. She's holding a dog on a lead and I don't know whether it's a police dog. The dog looks like one of the black drug detection dogs. Does anyone know if the woman is police-linked and if not, who she is? (Scroll about four-fifths of the way down; she's wearing a bright blue T-shirt.)
The day William Tyrrell vanished

 

[sleepinoz]

I found a very fair blonde woman in one of the early search pictures. She's holding a dog on a lead and I don't know whether it's a police dog. The dog looks like one of the black drug detection dogs. Does anyone know if the woman is police-linked and if not, who she is? (Scroll about four-fifths of the way down; she's wearing a bright blue T-shirt.)
The day William Tyrrell vanished

Seriously doubt it JLZ.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

Someone that was at the inquest will be able to tell us if these questions were asked.

Following him, Sergeant Beacroft asks Mr Savage about the speed he walked, if there were wild dogs, about fallen trees, if he kept to the track, when he knew to cut back in via a wallaby track in the bush to the road.

William Tyrrell neighbour spent hours on walk-through with police

Just realised I said Beaumont not Beacroft earlier. Sorry!

 

[sosocurious]

Just realised I said Beaumont not Beacroft earlier. Sorry!

All good so many names to remember. I knew who you meant. I am sure everyone else did as well.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

@WhiteLion^^
I'm hoping there are CCTV images! And if the two cars actually were travelling together, I think that would make them easier to spot. But re the location of the tennis club's CCTV camera: in 2014 it was still in Graham Street. The new tennis centre in Orara Street (the one you've mentioned, near Laurel Street) was only starting earthworks when this article was published in November 2014:
"Kendall Tennis Club takes control", Camden Haven Courier, 07 Nov 2014.

Good pick up and clarification stormbird. That's unfortunate then, as it may mean no CCTV of the cars to corroborate Chapman...

He is either an exceptional liar who has consistently manifested details in a manner that ring true to others, or he saw what he saw.

I think the coroner's hotline is for the fair woman driver in her 20s/30s.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

Just putting a map pic here to visually show ... the old tennis club location (2014) can be seen near the bridge over the Camden Haven River. Still some flat areas where the courts were.
The blue tennis courts of the current tennis club location can be seen at the end of Laurel Street, on Orara.

View attachment 204242
Google Maps

Thankyou SA!

 

[WhiteLion^^]

I'm thinking that Mr Chapman's sighting didn't ruffle too many of his feathers at the time. "Missing kid - they'll find him". Despite all the TV News reports and everyone out searching. He was more upset about the hoons driving on his street and the child not seeming to be buckled in.

He mentioned it to a relative of the police when he went to the club - did he really go to the club to find the police officer, or did he happen to be going there anyway? (Otherwise, why not make the necessary phone call? He had made a helpful phone call to police in the past, why not do that again?)

He never did report his sighting officially. A third party did that several weeks later, having heard it through the grapevine. By then he was too embarrassed that he hadn't officially reported it earlier. The things that people do and don't do out of pride. imo

I agree SA, pride and possibly a bit of power...I wonder if the not pleasant relationship with FGM had an impact. You'd hope not...

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree with all of the above. Which is why the reports of his son, possibly living on the property, intrigue me. Could he have grabbed lil Will and driven off with him quickly?

And PS saw that happen, and then was unsure of what to do?

I remember a photo of a riding "lawn mower man" at Kendall and that it was said (by whom, Idk anymore), that was Sean, PS' son. Is my memory right or wrong?

 

[interested64]

I have been pondering PS all day,thanks for doing the same..I think its because if he did snatch him,who was in the cars with William...here goes.....PS phone call 10.07..thats 8 mins before william went missing at 10.15 roughly..Heather left at 10.37 so thats nearly 20min after and ff must have just got back..so if PS did it he had from 10.08 roughly to walk outside and snatch a child and hide him before 10.37 when Heather left..where do you put a 3 year old for 22 min..I dont believe Heather left at 10.37 at all since he can remember that and nothing else,all he can remember sits outside of the Q police are asking....but saying that..PS has two sons...Sean and Daryll..there were no calls that we know of from his ph before the 10.45 sighting by RC.. my head hurts..the time the posty comes into the street is what i would like to know..im thinking my theory 1 is..Heather left after the 10.07 ph call..PS goes to see the posty to wink at her or just a glance since his wife has left..that puts him maybe 10meters and 5 min closer to William..grabs him and has him in the house, or goes into the bush behind his house..where was the scream and what time ??? andddd this is the part that i cant think how it could connect.....the sighting of blonde women in 4wd etc at .. all in moo and ramblings

 

[SouthAussie]

I remember a photo of a riding "lawn mower man" at Kendall and that it was said (by whom, Idk anymore), that was Sean, PS' son. Is my memory right or wrong?

Funny you should mention that. I was looking back in the threads for something, just a few days ago, and I saw that very post. It was by Makara. However, I remember thinking that we have since found out that was not correct ... we know so much more now than we knew then.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have been pondering PS all day,thanks for doing the same..I think its because if he did snatch him,who was in the cars with William...here goes.....PS phone call 10.07..thats 8 mins before william went missing at 10.15 roughly..Heather left at 10.37 so thats nearly 20min after and ff must have just got back..so if PS did it he had from 10.08 roughly to walk outside and snatch a child and hide him before 10.37 when Heather left..where do you put a 3 year old for 22 min..I dont believe Heather left at 10.37 at all since he can remember that and nothing else,all he can remember sits outside of the Q police are asking....but saying that..PS has two sons...Sean and Daryll..there were no calls that we know of from his ph before the 10.45 sighting by RC.. my head hurts..the time the posty comes into the street is what i would like to know..im thinking my theory 1 is..Heather left after the 10.07 ph call..PS goes to see the posty to wink at her or just a glance since his wife has left..that puts him maybe 10meters and 5 min closer to William..grabs him and has him in the house, or goes into the bush behind his house..where was the scream and what time ??? andddd this is the part that i cant think how it could connect.....the sighting of blonde women in 4wd etc at .. all in moo and ramblings

I think you might be correct about Heather leaving earlier. Heck, at times I have even thought that she was not there at all.

Savage seemed to have no problem wavering from his prior statements. And being a non-adversarial environment at the inquest, he was not really challenged on that. His lawyer put it down to confusion.
But the Coroner would have his statements right in front of her and know if she was hearing a different version, or hearing other than Heather said in her statement, or hearing differently from what another Friday morning bingo player has told police.

 

[interested64]

theory 2..PS did see something and knows who it was and has been threatened..a few other Q i have if anyone knows..what car did the fg drive.. what colour hair Lyn has,as i believe if BC said hair in a bun,most likely real hair all tho it may have been dyed..did BC go on regular walks ?

 

[Ms Kite]

None of those explanations make sense to me.

If you watched the evening news, and realised that you had seen a child being kidnapped, earlier that day---what would you do?

Would you expect the police to come to your house, so you would wait for that? That makes no sense to me at all. Why not just call them and tell them what you saw?

He had evidently done that exact same thing in an earlier case.

That report to a family friend is even less convincing, imo.

He says he went to a social club to look for a family friend who was an officer, and he said he 'mentioned it' to her sister in law, at the club. That is the least reliable way of getting urgently important info about a kidnapped child to the investigators, I have ever heard.

It does not seem credible to me, because on one hand, he says he is 100% certain that it was the kidnapped child, yet on the other hand, he does next to nothing to get that child any help. Who does that?

He even knows the grandmother, so he could have gone down the street and told her himself. Did his dislike for her get in the way?

There are so many things that don't seem to make sense with this case IMO.

There are still question marks around MS and BS...

PS isn't winning people over with his testimony...

And why are there so many dodgy sex offenders in the Kendall district????

 

[interested64]

sorry me again Heather left..PS heard a 4wd and thought it was the posty..again theory went up to letter box to wink at posty since his wife had left..witnessed abduction or just 4wd or TJ or BS or FA or RD..got scared as in breeching bail conditions and ? it may come out to his family he was maybe seeing Lyn and thats what he went walk about for,to tell her to sushh..and the missing 30 min from William being taken to 10.45 sighting,maybe they were calming him down etc..