Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

[mussopossum]

I have the impression now, after reading all the questions, which were put to him, that he isn't an "old man", who is mentally confused. Rather seems he be used to lying and defending himself very quick and cheeky and confident. When he fears to get trapped, he plays a little confused from time to time. MOO
IF he perhaps belongs to a group of like minded men, he has to have these abilities (lying, defending) since a long time. Maybe, he didn't something to little W himself, but was the first in the line of several abductors? - Also MOO.

I wonder IF at the time SFR / Jubelin when they realized of his ramblings change story and concerns to his mental health or his situation with his memory
If they brought in any medical specialists to access dementia etc? There was mention of a psychologist I think in Jubelins case last week in regards to was it his recorded ramblings at the house?

 

[intriguedinterest]

I have the impression now, after reading all the questions, which were put to him, that he isn't an "old man", who is mentally confused. Rather seems he be used to lying and defending himself very quick and cheeky and confident. When he fears to get trapped, he plays a little confused from time to time. MOO
IF he perhaps belongs to a group of like minded men, he has to have these abilities (lying, defending) since a long time. Maybe, he didn't something to little W himself, but was the first in the line of several abductors? - Also MOO.

I am intrigued why Jubelin has obviously ignored the considered opinion of Beacroft regarding the time she opined of 10.05 that William vanished. A whole 32 minutes prior to Heather Savage departing her residence at 10.37. As Mussopossum posted this morning, Heather's car was possible viewed on the cctv footage captured by the tennis club camera. If Mr Craddock did in fact say the time of 10.37 for her departure, I am intrigued to find where he obtained that information from? Police files containing a statement by Heather or Paul Savage or cctv footage information contained within police files.

 

[kiwi50]

I wonder if he is saying "sorry love" to Heather because of the infatuation with the post lady and any further woman (if there is or was any)

Surely his late wife would have known about this AVO?

I wonder If and what she knew and also, did she ever have any confrontations to the post lady either at the letterbox or around town / in the post office.

Agree, it would be very interesting to know about her reaction to postlady, I’m usually here defending PS, but must say I’m thinking it wasnt a good look to be spending so long with lady in caravan, with an AVO against you. Surely Heather would have pointed that out to him.

As far as we know the caravan lady wasnt scared of him, so maybe some of the stuff with postlady was exaggerated or misconstrued.

 

[mussopossum]

So the FGM used to catch the train to Sydney.

Here are a list of train stations where the XPT country Link train from Brisbane to Sydney stops. None of which are Gordon. The first stop as you come into Sydney for anyone on the North Shore suburbs is Hornsby. Although it is not far from Gordon it is still far enough with many stops before that. XPT only has set stops so no way it stopped in Gordon. Also no other train from the north coast to Sydney I dont think? So had to be XPT?

https://transportnsw.info/regional-north-coast-line

 

[intriguedinterest]

But why would PS have even been expected to have heard anything when he was seeing his wife off to bingo? It was reportedly at 10:37-10:38.. FD had arrived home at 10:35; that is a matter of 2-3 minutes and clocks may have differed slightly. FM didn't go to AMS until after she'd already met FD in the driveway (by the time FM went to AMS, she reportedly heard FD yelling in the background by then); we're talking about a very close timeframe. FM greeted FD and told him about W, asked him if he was with him, etc., all of which takes seconds as well, FD gets out of the car and reportedly immediately goes running around the property looking for him? He may or may not have been yelling yet? We also learned that PS may be a little on the hard-of-hearing side.

Wasn't it also 10:30am when Lyd.H got back from grocery shopping and was unloading her car? That is said (by FM) to have been the time that W disappeared. She also didn't hear anything or see anything. Also nothing has been said about lawnmower man having heard anything, and he was out too, by the time the ladies went looking - he may have been out earlier as well? And then there is the postie that GJ accuses PS of sticking around to see - what did she see and hear? She hasn't even been in MSM, nor at the inquest at all, as far as we have heard. How is it fair to centre around PS not hearing or seeing anything when it seems there were quite a few people who saw and heard nothing?

And we still have not heard a time the postie was in Benaroon Drive? There is no proof Mr Savage was 'hanging' around anywhere is there? No sightings of Mr Savage by anyone ie neighbours in the vicinity saying so that I know of. I agree with your discussion around who was within earshot but heard nothing as well. Jubelin's concentration on two men ie Mr Spedding and Mr Savage got no where to uncover the truth of what occurred on Benaroon Drive that fateful morning.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe because of people he had connections to ?? He could have "passed" WT on??

I believe there were certainly enough reasons for police to take the actions they did.

IMO William could have easily been secreted out of Benaroon Drive very easily early on & also could have been hidden easy enough as well.

A 3 year old boy is tiny.

Lots of hiding spots to fit & it would have been impossible for police to search every place initially. I'm sure they tried their best , but unfortunately they were looking for a little boy who had gotten lost & rightly so IMO

Well, one thing is for sure ... the police had reasonable grounds to get a warrant for listening devices inside Savage's home. They are not allowed to go on a fishing expedition with their devices.

 

[intriguedinterest]

So the FGM used to catch the train to Sydney.

Here are a list of train stations where the XPT country Link train from Brisbane to Sydney stops. None of which are Gordon. The first stop as you come into Sydney for anyone on the North Shore suburbs is Hornsby. Although it is not far from Gordon it is still far enough with many stops before that. XPT only has set stops so no way it stopped in Gordon. Also no other train from the north coast to Sydney I dont think? So had to be XPT?

So the FGM used to catch the train to Sydney.




View attachment 230775

 

[SouthAussie]

And lets be reminded that Police publicly stated this week that PS is NO longer an "Active POI"....

A potential trial, that is already at risk, as according to the law, obtaining taped evidence without a warrant, is illegal.

I thought it was Beacroft who said that she 'didn't believe' Savage was still an 'active' POI. Sounds to me that she isn't sure as she is likely no longer involved in the seemingly-much-reduced investigation. This may not be an entire 'police' opinion.
What is a non-active POI? Perhaps one that is still on the list but the investigation into them has stalled (for however long).

Detective Beacroft today said she believed Mr Savage was no longer an "active" person of interest, despite there there being nothing which could rule him out.
Police made secret recordings of William Tyrrell person of interest Paul Savage speaking to dead wife


I am not sure that we can state that a trial is at risk when ...
1. We have no idea who would be put on trial for this crime
2. We have no idea if the current judge is going to agree or disagree that Jubes had a legal and legitimate operational right to make those recordings.

 

[intriguedinterest]

Having loads of trouble posting - keeps showing double posts even when I am posting after the "quote" brackets.

My consideration is that if Mr Savage was the wearer of false teeth they were not in place at times he was self talking his speech may have been quite unintelligible, what officers say they heard - 'Gordon' may have in fact been - 'Jubelin'.

 

[intriguedinterest]

Well, one thing is for sure ... the police had reasonable grounds to get a warrant for listening devices inside Savage's home. They are not allowed to go on a fishing expedition with their devices.

All recording devices MUST be noted on the warrant as far as I can see from the current Trial, is that the use of Jubelin's personal mobile was done outside the expiration of a warrant and not included on a warrant prior to its expiration. That's my understanding.

 

[intriguedinterest]

None of this discussion about Jubelin is assisting to uncover why William vanished.

 

[intriguedinterest]

Agree, it would be very interesting to know about her reaction to postlady, I’m usually here defending PS, but must say I’m thinking it wasnt a good look to be spending so long with lady in caravan, with an AVO against you. Surely Heather would have pointed that out to him.

As far as we know the caravan lady wasnt scared of him, so maybe some of the stuff with postlady was exaggerated or misconstrued.

Your bolded section. Could well be in my opinion. I am intrigued to know if the vehicle the Crabb's say to Beacroft they heard, was the postie vehicle or did someone else do the postie delivery using another vehicle on 12 September just 2 days after Jubelin says the female postie accused Mr Savage of contravening the AVO.

Further intrigue for me is, the vehicle that the foster mother says did a turn in the (northern) neighbour's driveway at the time the children were said by the foster mother to be playing with their bikes on the driveway of 48 - around or just after 9am from memory. Was this a replacement postie's vehicle with the weathered redheaded man driving a replacement postie?

 

[mussopossum]

None of this discussion about Jubelin is assisting to uncover why William vanished.

It may not be solving the crime however it is giving us further clarity into a past or current (???) POI and reasoning as to why SFR / Jubelin fixated on PS. We still have no clue if PS is indeed involved or who is is involved.

I just don't feel they are any closer to solving what happened to little William IMO, if anything I have learnt from Jubelin being on trial at the moment it is that.

 

[WhiteLion^^]

I thought it was Beacroft who said that she 'didn't believe' Savage was still an 'active' POI. Sounds to me that she isn't sure as she is likely no longer involved in the seemingly-much-reduced investigation. This may not be an entire 'police' opinion.
What is a non-active POI? Perhaps one that is still on the list but the investigation into them has stalled (for however long).

Detective Beacroft today said she believed Mr Savage was no longer an "active" person of interest, despite there there being nothing which could rule him out.
Police made secret recordings of William Tyrrell person of interest Paul Savage speaking to dead wife


I am not sure that we can state that a trial is at risk when ...
1. We have no idea who would be put on trial for this crime
2. We have no idea if the current judge is going to agree or disagree that Jubes had a legal and legitimate operational right to make those recordings.

Could it be that GJs case needs to be sorted before any progress can be made on WTs inquest / move to trial of an individual? Ruling in the recordings as legally admissable or not would be a big factor, yes? Maybe LE is trying to avoid any issues that a 'technicality' would create at an eventual trial. IMO

There may be more in the recordings in question, and others not relevant to GJs charges, that haven't been released because of various reasons. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Could it be that GJs case needs to be sorted before any progress can be made on WTs inquest / move to trial of an individual? Ruling in the recordings as legally admissable or not would be a big factor, yes? Maybe LE is trying to avoid any issues that a 'technicality' would create at an eventual trial. IMO

There may be more in the recordings in question, and others not relevant to GJs charges, that haven't been released because of various reasons. IMO

Yes, I have a feeling that we are only getting part of the picture with regards to Savage (and with regards to Jubes and his operational reasons). The court has gone into closed sessions during this trial at least several times.

 

[Chrissy74]

BUT HS didn't look like the blonde woman with white shirt in the racing car, the "flower expert" (his name I'm not remembering atm) had seen with little W in his spider man costume or did HS?

How can we believe a person who decided to not provide crucial information until weeks months years after the fact.. if what RC saw that morning and who he saw was absolute truth any sane decent logical person who have either walked into a police station that day or at least phoned the station.. that information if true would have been a game changer as it would have gone from lil boy lost to lil boy stolen within 24hrs.. who wouldn’t inform police ASAP if that were truth.. in fact rc response to that question was he believed police were door knocking and so thought he would wait until they came to his front door.. really.. after 1 2 3 4 days still no knock ummmmmmm then surely you would go to them.. but no he still waited n waited n waited

 

[JLZ]

So the FGM used to catch the train to Sydney.

Here are a list of train stations where the XPT country Link train from Brisbane to Sydney stops. None of which are Gordon. The first stop as you come into Sydney for anyone on the North Shore suburbs is Hornsby. Although it is not far from Gordon it is still far enough with many stops before that. XPT only has set stops so no way it stopped in Gordon. Also no other train from the north coast to Sydney I dont think? So had to be XPT?

https://transportnsw.info/regional-north-coast-line


View attachment 230775

So she would have had to change trains at Hornsby--why not?

 

[sleepinoz]

So the FGM used to catch the train to Sydney.

Here are a list of train stations where the XPT country Link train from Brisbane to Sydney stops. None of which are Gordon. The first stop as you come into Sydney for anyone on the North Shore suburbs is Hornsby. Although it is not far from Gordon it is still far enough with many stops before that. XPT only has set stops so no way it stopped in Gordon. Also no other train from the north coast to Sydney I dont think? So had to be XPT?

https://transportnsw.info/regional-north-coast-line


View attachment 230775

XPT's only stop at major stations. If you were going to Gordon anyone catching an XPT would have to change at Hornsby. Going to other area's of Sydney you would change at Strathfield or Central.

Gordon is only 6 stops from Hornsby.

 

[Chrissy74]

Thanks Deugirtni for your feedback on reporters.. I completely agree.. it just so happens Lia Harris has dedicated her reporting of this case right from the very beginning and as I’ve read a plethora of information from a wide range of media sources and am fully aware of the bias that comes with.. Lia’s twitter page and reporting live from the inquest is what I found to be the most accurate as her comments/ communication was live and in real time and that leaves very lil to get it wrong.. I have never given my opinion based on anybody else’s other than my own from what I’ve interpreted from all those who have testified at the inquests and so I’m just relating words that come straight from the horses mouth so to speak

 

[deugirtni]

And then we have a police officer Beacroft (with experience at child exploitation matters) stating that in her opinion William vanished at around 10.05am so when Heather Savage is believed to have departed (10.37am) as stated by Mr Savage in media reports (and maybe a statement to police) William had vanished by a good half an hour.

I would love to hear Beacroft's reasoning for not believing FM saying he'd disappeared right before FD got home. Also Beacroft wasn't present when it happened (but FM and her mother were), so on what and how is she basing her theory of the time on? If PS had taken W from the neighbour's property half an hour before his wife left for bingo, where and how did he hide W for that half hour and how did he keep him quiet so as not to rouse his wife's suspicion that he'd stolen the neighbour's child? Then, after his wife left, what did he do with W then? Put tape on his mouth and hide him in a secret place in his house that for sure wouldn't be searched? (Police even opened up neighbour's attic accesses to check into them.)

If he made W unconscious, then how did he know that by the time W came to, and started screaming as he surely would be expected to, all the fuss on the street would be gone and nobody would hear him? (It wasn't, and they would have). We know his vehicle(s) was examined forensically, so he didn't take him anywhere in his vehicle(s). So if not unconscious, then did he kill him right away before his wife even left? And if so, why? The sheer logistics and circumstances here seem to suggest that it just wasn't possible for PS to have taken him and gotten away with it for five plus years?