Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[Karinna]

We would have to ask @drsleuth if we have Mr Crabb's statement …. ???

There have been a few reports of the times , but I don't know about them actually receiving mail.... I would imagine if they did get mail that day , and if the Millers received mail that day, then they would have heard and possibly seen the car....

They knew that Mr Savage didn't get mail that day and that the car stopped at FGM House to deliver mail...

Sometimes I wish that every body in the street had mail delivered that day! The "Postie" has certainly caused much discussion...…. IMO

Edit to add...… It may not have been the Postie's car that they heard.... but whoever was driving the car, stopped at FGM House but did not stop at PS House or any others up that end of Benaroon Drive...

BBM, Agree, and none of any of it has panned out in being any closer as to what happened to WT, as far as we know. WT wasn't even seen by anyone either that we are aware of, so where exactly was he when he supposedly was taken?

 

[SLouTh]

BBM, Agree, and none of any of it has panned out in being any closer as to what happened to WT, as far as we know. WT wasn't even seen by anyone either that we are aware of, so where exactly was he when he supposedly was taken?

The Million Dollar question.... sadly....

 

[JLZ]

If the C's were waiting for the post why wouldn't they just go and look out their window or outside to see if the postie had been i wonder? The post normally comes around the same time each day in most places unless it's an extremely busy time like Xmas or something.

I doubt they'd be able to see by inspection of the box from the house whether it contained mail or not. They might have a narrow view of the street peering around their back verandah so perhaps could have got up and looked for the vehicle right when they heard it. I guess it wasn't quite that urgent.

 

[Blues Clues]

Thinking about who had reason to be in the top end of the street that morning and who would have reason to panic....all speculation and imo.

his scent was found on the driveway or to the letterbox

"he went to look for Daddy's car"

The couple [Crabbs] both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.

Desperate search for William captured


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.

'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

According to tyre marks on the kerb, 'probably' the post vehicle drove on the wrong side of the road for ease of reaching out the window to place mail in the letterbox.



The day William Tyrrell vanished


The hit and run theory was suggested to PS by GJ as possibly something that occurred with his wife or himself. PS denied such a thing occurred and I have to wonder if Heather or Paul did hit William, what reason would they have for covering such an accident.
The post lady on the other hand - if she had an accident more or less in front of Savages house she would be more likely to panic as she would want to avoid PS.

The post lady said she came into the street earlier than usual. Why? and was there proof of this?

I can see why Lambert wanted to investigate the post lady, if nothing else she and the car she drove that morning need to be eliminated. imo

 

[SLouTh]

Thinking about who had reason to be in the top end of the street that morning and who would have reason to panic....all speculation and imo.

his scent was found on the driveway or to the letterbox

"he went to look for Daddy's car"

The couple [Crabbs] both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.

Desperate search for William captured


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.

'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

According to tyre marks on the kerb, 'probably' the post vehicle drove on the wrong side of the road for ease of reaching out the window to place mail in the letterbox.

View attachment 234729

The day William Tyrrell vanished


The hit and run theory was suggested to PS by GJ as possibly something that occurred with his wife or himself. PS denied such a thing occurred and I have to wonder if Heather or Paul did hit William, what reason would they have for covering such an accident.
The post lady on the other hand - if she had an accident more or less in front of Savages house she would be more likely to panic as she would want to avoid PS.

The post lady said she came into the street earlier than usual. Why? and was there proof of this?

I can see why Lambert wanted to investigate the post lady, if nothing else she and the car she drove that morning need to be eliminated. imo

I think you are right on the money here Blues... with all of this....
I think "Going to look for Daddy's car" by himself, turned out to be fatal….. and I can also see why the Police are putting the time of 10.05hrs as being the likely time William went missing....

 

[stormyseas]

“The NSW government has announced it will not support reforms that could have paved the way for a retrial of the man accused of murdering three Bowraville children, in what the family member of a victim has described as a "kick in the guts".”

“One family member, Michelle Jarrett, said a similar reward announced in 2016 in relation to the William Tyrrell disappearance had not helped that case.
"Has it done anything for William Tyrrell? Why not $3 million? If we went to court they would split them [the cases] up then, but when it's time for a reward they put it into one," the aunt of Evelyn Greenup, said.”
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/na...orms-for-bowraville-case-20200226-p544nj.html

 

[Chrissy74]

I’m trying to keep an open mind and look at the possibilities from every angle but they somehow all seem to lead back to Paul Savage. I don’t believe for a second that William was snatched by a random person who just happened to be there at that precise time n decided to take a chance. This was planned. Someone watched and waited for the perfect moment when no one else was around. They would have known Judy Wilson wasn’t home they would have known the Millers were away they would have had some idea who was at work and who was at home that day. And I don’t believe that heather left for bingo that morning at 10:37 because both she and Paul would have heard some sort of commotion coming from right across the street.. the only car that exited the street that morning the same time as the disappearance was apparently heathers. I just doesn’t add up to me

 

[JLZ]

I’m trying to keep an open mind and look at the possibilities from every angle but they somehow all seem to lead back to Paul Savage. I don’t believe for a second that William was snatched by a random person who just happened to be there at that precise time n decided to take a chance. This was planned. Someone watched and waited for the perfect moment when no one else was around. They would have known Judy Wilson wasn’t home they would have known the Millers were away they would have had some idea who was at work and who was at home that day. And I don’t believe that heather left for bingo that morning at 10:37 because both she and Paul would have heard some sort of commotion coming from right across the street.. the only car that exited the street that morning the same time as the disappearance was apparently heathers. I just doesn’t add up to me

Do you think Heather transferred William somewhere while she was out? Or do you think William was in the car unknown to her and she brought him right back into the commotion of the search early afternoon? I can't see an advantage in that for PS.

 

[Ms Kite]

I’m trying to keep an open mind and look at the possibilities from every angle but they somehow all seem to lead back to Paul Savage. I don’t believe for a second that William was snatched by a random person who just happened to be there at that precise time n decided to take a chance. This was planned. Someone watched and waited for the perfect moment when no one else was around. They would have known Judy Wilson wasn’t home they would have known the Millers were away they would have had some idea who was at work and who was at home that day. And I don’t believe that heather left for bingo that morning at 10:37 because both she and Paul would have heard some sort of commotion coming from right across the street.. the only car that exited the street that morning the same time as the disappearance was apparently heathers. I just doesn’t add up to me

I feel the same - that it was planned to some degree. I am not convinced that there was an accident (that was covered up) on the street either. PS raises so many red flags for me. I feel he must know something.

All IMO..

 

[Chrissy74]

I feel the same - that it was planned to some degree. I am not convinced that there was an accident (that was covered up) on the street either. PS raises so many red flags for me. I feel he must know something.

All IMO..

Savage was quoted by the “sunshinecoastdaily“ as saying. They wouldn’t go wandering. They would stay close to their grandmother. You’d never see them unless you were walking or driving past. That gives me chills. Savage seems to know the fine details of certain things that require ones full attention and observation yet conveniently can’t recall others like how he got lost on his way back searching. I honestly don’t mean to point the finger at ps but for me all roads lead back to him

 

[Chrissy74]

Do you think Heather transferred William somewhere while she was out? Or do you think William was in the car unknown to her and she brought him right back into the commotion of the search early afternoon? I can't see an advantage in that for PS.

At first I did but now I’m wondering if savage left his house as well sometime just before his wife not for long but long enough to make a drop off. He made a call to his brother around 10am finished call by 10:10 then no one knows after that because there were too many teas and toasts breaks. He claims not to know for sure if heather went to bingo after waving goodbye and can’t remember for certain which car was and wasn’t parked the garage but is certain on the time heather left right down to the minute being 10:37 not 10:35 or 10:30ish but 10:37

 

[SLouTh]

I’m trying to keep an open mind and look at the possibilities from every angle but they somehow all seem to lead back to Paul Savage. I don’t believe for a second that William was snatched by a random person who just happened to be there at that precise time n decided to take a chance. This was planned. Someone watched and waited for the perfect moment when no one else was around. They would have known Judy Wilson wasn’t home they would have known the Millers were away they would have had some idea who was at work and who was at home that day. And I don’t believe that heather left for bingo that morning at 10:37 because both she and Paul would have heard some sort of commotion coming from right across the street.. the only car that exited the street that morning the same time as the disappearance was apparently heathers. I just doesn’t add up to me

Heather did also give a statement to Police … so she may have also confirmed the time???
Also if you go way back to very early interviews the reason PS was specific about the time was because Heather usually left at a particular time every week for Bingo... (it was either 10.30 or 10.35am from memory) and that morning she was running a few minutes late because she was preparing for visitors before she left... Bingo was a weekly outing and Heather had a set time for leaving each week.... like a habit.....
And that is how he knew the time …. he was worried she was going to be late...
IMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Thinking about who had reason to be in the top end of the street that morning and who would have reason to panic....all speculation and imo.

his scent was found on the driveway or to the letterbox

"he went to look for Daddy's car"

The couple [Crabbs] both heard a car on Benaroon Drive that Friday before they were told about the missing boy, which they say did a U-turn before it drove off but sounded exactly like the postman.

Desperate search for William captured


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.

Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.

Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.

'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

According to tyre marks on the kerb, 'probably' the post vehicle drove on the wrong side of the road for ease of reaching out the window to place mail in the letterbox.

View attachment 234729

The day William Tyrrell vanished


The hit and run theory was suggested to PS by GJ as possibly something that occurred with his wife or himself. PS denied such a thing occurred and I have to wonder if Heather or Paul did hit William, what reason would they have for covering such an accident.
The post lady on the other hand - if she had an accident more or less in front of Savages house she would be more likely to panic as she would want to avoid PS.

The post lady said she came into the street earlier than usual. Why? and was there proof of this?

I can see why Lambert wanted to investigate the post lady, if nothing else she and the car she drove that morning need to be eliminated. imo

sounded exactly like the postman. There's the rub, there are vehicles that sound like the postie's. There's often a discrepancy with what we hear and what is true, I've heard vehicles drive up my road and swore it was one of the neighbours, but on inspection it wasn't, it just 'sounded' like their vehicle.

The postie would be easy to eliminate, they delivered mail in other streets before FGM's part of the street, there would be dozens or more people that would've seen the postie, not just heard the sound of the vehicle. Unless, there's a suggestion the postie waited somewhere to enter the street after 10am?

It's been established by the police, the postie came into the street BEFORE 10 am. Whether it was 10 minutes or more earlier, we don't as yet know, if it were important, we'd hear about it, imo.

 

[Chrissy74]

Heather did also give a statement to Police … so she may have also confirmed the time???
Also if you go way back to very early interviews the reason PS was specific about the time was because Heather usually left at a particular time every week for Bingo... (it was either 10.30 or 10.35am from memory) and that morning she was running a few minutes late because she was preparing for visitors before she left... Bingo was a weekly outing and Heather had a set time for leaving each week.... like a habit.....
And that is how he knew the time …. he was worried she was going to be late...
IMO

I hear what your saying but i think savage is a better liar than what we’d like to believe. Truth is savage may not have even been home when heather left or just got home as she was leaving n that’s why the time stuck in his mind. He may have come back from his walk realised the postie came early n was pissed off. His behaviour is unpredictable. I think he likes everyone to think he’s just your average friendly next door neighbour but there’s stuff that runs deep there and that has shown itself more and more of late. No body in the street saw anything out of the ordinary. Why? Because nothing was out of the ordinary. Whoever took William lived in that street and that’s why nothing looked suspicious

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Sounds to me like PS stirred things up in that street. I have no idea what he's capable of but he deserved scrutiny. He's lived there for 12 yrs and on that particular day got lost on a walk he'd taken nearly every day? The 2 hours after he saw the suit is unaccounted for too?

Did PS witness something crucial but he's too ashamed to reveal it now because he didn't when WT was taken. Was he too concerned about the postie, the AVO and police involvement?
Hit and runs happen frequently, a cover up for a small child isn't an outlandish idea, but why did WT run down to PS's area in the first place? Did WT have a ball outside on that day and it rolled down the road?

The other candidates are the handyman who turns up unannounced, they've done a job there before and were in the area so popped round. This person could've taken WT without anyone knowing. Those handymen who've worked there or associate with known paedophiles who also do handman work, they're probably the most likely, imo.

 

[JLZ]

sounded exactly like the postman. There's the rub, there are vehicles that sound like the postie's. There's often a discrepancy with what we hear and what is true, I've heard vehicles drive up my road and swore it was one of the neighbours, but on inspection it wasn't, it just 'sounded' like their vehicle.

The postie would be easy to eliminate, they delivered mail in other streets before FGM's part of the street, there would be dozens or more people that would've seen the postie, not just heard the sound of the vehicle. Unless, there's a suggestion the postie waited somewhere to enter the street after 10am?

It's been established by the police, the postie came into the street BEFORE 10 am. Whether it was 10 minutes or more earlier, we don't as yet know, if it were important, we'd hear about it, imo.

Second paragraph--yes one would think she'd have a fair alibi both before and after delivery to Benaroon. However, third paragraph--I'm not aware that police established that? She said she normally delivered there between 10 and 10:30 but was running early. That might mean she's not sure of the exact time but it would have been closer to 10; not that it was necessarily before 10. I'm also not sure it's been established that William didn't disappear just before 10. It's only various opinions that put it after. As to what we'd hear about--what we hear is what police want us to hear, and it seems to me they manipulate public opinion to serve their current theory.

Edit: And it seems to me that if the car heard by the Crabbs was definitely not the postie, that's an important point to be noted.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I hear what your saying but i think savage is a better liar than what we’d like to believe. Truth is savage may not have even been home when heather left or just got home as she was leaving n that’s why the time stuck in his mind. I may have come back from his walk realised they postie came early n was pissed off. His behaviour is unpredictable. I think he likes everyone to think he’s just your average friendly next door neighbour but there’s stuff that runs deep there and that has shown itself more and more of late. No body in the street saw anything out of the ordinary. Why? Because nothing was out of the ordinary. Whoever took William lived in that street and that’s why nothing looked suspicious

PS is definitely a liar, GJ said there were several witnesses to his performances about the postie not wanting to see him, but he denied it. Could be shame but it's still a lie,
and I agree, he's unpredictable and doesn't respect boundaries, and nothing out of the ordinary is often the case.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Second paragraph--yes one would think she'd have a fair alibi both before and after delivery to Benaroon. However, third paragraph--I'm not aware that police established that? She said she normally delivered there between 10 and 10:30 but was running early. That might mean she's not sure of the exact time but it would have been closer to 10; not that it was necessarily before 10. I'm also not sure it's been established that William didn't disappear just before 10. It's only various opinions that put it after. As to what we'd hear about--what we hear is what police want us to hear, and it seems to me they manipulate public opinion to serve their current theory.

Isn't the FM a good source?

If one or several people living in the next street spoke to doorknocking police and said, the postie delivered at 9.45am, wouldn't that establish her time in Benaroon Drive? It'd be easy to verify where she was, she's a potential witness, her timing would be of paramount importance because her usual delivery time is 10-10.30 am.
My postie usually comes between 10 am - 11am, but on occasion has come at 8.30am or as late as, 2.30pm.

 

[SLouTh]

sounded exactly like the postman. There's the rub, there are vehicles that sound like the postie's. There's often a discrepancy with what we hear and what is true, I've heard vehicles drive up my road and swore it was one of the neighbours, but on inspection it wasn't, it just 'sounded' like their vehicle.

The postie would be easy to eliminate, they delivered mail in other streets before FGM's part of the street, there would be dozens or more people that would've seen the postie, not just heard the sound of the vehicle. Unless, there's a suggestion the postie waited somewhere to enter the street after 10am?

It's been established by the police, the postie came into the street BEFORE 10 am. Whether it was 10 minutes or more earlier, we don't as yet know, if it were important, we'd hear about it, imo.

Yes totally agree Prime..... and as they have now released her name to the public, you would think they would clear up the whole "time" business..... unless the Police are withholding that particular time, on purpose, as it relates to some other piece of relevant evidence that they have acquired????

Also....they have released the name of the female postie, (which is odd after all this time and so many other names given to the media etc..). But have they actually said that she did the deliveries that day?? Or have I missed that??
She could have been off sick and someone else filled in, for example, etc etc....
We know from Jube's trial that one of the officers suggested looking into the Postie, but not sure if that ever happened ??

 

[SLouTh]

Second paragraph--yes one would think she'd have a fair alibi both before and after delivery to Benaroon. However, third paragraph--I'm not aware that police established that? She said she normally delivered there between 10 and 10:30 but was running early. That might mean she's not sure of the exact time but it would have been closer to 10; not that it was necessarily before 10. I'm also not sure it's been established that William didn't disappear just before 10. It's only various opinions that put it after. As to what we'd hear about--what we hear is what police want us to hear, and it seems to me they manipulate public opinion to serve their current theory.

BBM - so very true JLZ!!! and we must also remember the same can also be said of the Media!!!
And there are a lot of discrepancies regarding the "actual truth" of a subject, when reported by the media....