Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

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Blues Clues said:
It was 9.00am when the FFC saw the car drive past and turn in the neighbours drive.
The Crabbs arrived home 9.30-9.35am.

Couldn't have been the same car. However it's possible the person driving the car at 9.00 came back maybe even in a different car.
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So that means ff was still at the house when fm saw the car because he left sometime between 9am 9:15am?
 
JLZ said:
BBM, did she say that at the inquest though or is that from an early article? It would have been about the same time as MFC left for his internet thing and I don't believe that link was ever made, just that the kids were riding bikes in the driveway, which possibly they did more than once that morning.
Click to expand...

Yes sorry you're right JLZ.
It seems the children started riding their bikes after MFC left at 9am. The photo was taken at 9.37 on the deck. It must have been between those times FFC locked eyes with the driver of the car which did a U-turn.
  • William's foster father went to nearby Lakewood about 9am for a solid internet connection for the call. He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am.
  • William and his sister started riding bikes on the driveway after he left.
  • Another man drove past them in the dead-end street. The foster mother locked eyes with him as he continued down the road in an old teal-coloured car.
  • William and his foster mother played a game called "mummy monster" where they would roar at one another.
  • They explored the tree-lined yard as William's sister sat inside with their grandmother drawing art for their late grandfather's grave.
  • William's foster mother made cups of tea before snapping the now iconic photo of the three-year-old boy sitting on the deck dressed as Spider-Man at 9.37am.
Tyrrell's foster father searched everywhere
 
Blues Clues said:
Yes sorry you're right JLZ.
It seems the children started riding their bikes after MFC left at 9am. The photo was taken at 9.37 on the deck. It must have been between those times FFC locked eyes with the driver of the car which did a U-turn.
  • William's foster father went to nearby Lakewood about 9am for a solid internet connection for the call. He had a prescription filled at a chemist there at 10.19am.
  • William and his sister started riding bikes on the driveway after he left.
  • Another man drove past them in the dead-end street. The foster mother locked eyes with him as he continued down the road in an old teal-coloured car.
  • William and his foster mother played a game called "mummy monster" where they would roar at one another.
  • They explored the tree-lined yard as William's sister sat inside with their grandmother drawing art for their late grandfather's grave.
  • William's foster mother made cups of tea before snapping the now iconic photo of the three-year-old boy sitting on the deck dressed as Spider-Man at 9.37am.
Tyrrell's foster father searched everywhere
Click to expand...
She made tea before 9:37 and they were still drinking it when she missed William? I remember her saying it was lukewarm, but still . . . !

Another point to note from that article (74, this is to you) is that FFC didn't read the text message until after she'd missed and begun searching for William.
 
JLZ said:
She made tea before 9:37 and they were still drinking it when she missed William? I remember her saying it was lukewarm, but still . . . !

Another point to note from that article (74, this is to you) is that FFC didn't read the text message until after she'd missed and begun searching for William.[/
When fm drove around the nearby streets looking for William was this before or after ff came home?
Click to expand...
 
This was part of the "Thread Timeline" that was being worked on a while ago... please note it hasn't been recently updated after Jube's Trial.... and there may be things that need updating.... It's still a work in progress....
Thought it might be of assistance in this discussion about times etc

**** Please note a lot of this was put together by Frogwell after she attended first inquest...****

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8:40 FF Leaves 48 Benaroon Drive for teleconference - his car captured on CCTV ( Reference: CO Book)
8.55-9.00-FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....
 
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JLZ said:
She made tea before 9:37 and they were still drinking it when she missed William? I remember her saying it was lukewarm, but still . . . !

Another point to note from that article (74, this is to you) is that FFC didn't read the text message until after she'd missed and begun searching for William.
Click to expand...
Yes I did note that however I’m thinking there would have been a time mentioned obviously between the couple prior to leaving to make call that would have given fm the impression that daddy was just around the corner so to speak or was expected home fairly soon..
 
Christ74 said:
When fm drove around the nearby streets looking for William was this before or after ff came home?
Click to expand...
I though it was after FF arrived home as there was some question as to why she didn't use their car …. instead of FGM car

We don't have this in the "timeline"... but we do need it...for completeness.

One of the Members who have been here from the get-go are sure to be able to give us link on this ….
 
Christ74 said:
Yes I did note that however I’m thinking there would have been a time mentioned obviously between the couple prior to leaving to make call that would have given fm the impression that daddy was just around the corner so to speak or was expected home fairly soon..
Click to expand...
Yes, sounds reasonable, but also FFC was running out of resources to keep the children and FGM at peace and that was why she directed them to expect daddy.
 
SLouTh said:
This was part of the "Thread Timeline" that was being worked on a while ago... please note it hasn't been recently updated after Jube's Trial.... and there may be things that need updating.... It's still a work in progress....
Thought it might be of assistance in this discussion about times etc

**** Please note a lot of this was put together by Frogwell after she attended first inquest...****

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8.55-9.00- FF heads off for a teleconference at Lakewood -
MFC leaves, FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....
Click to expand...
Brilliant Slouth thank you. Timeline helps me see much more clearly. What stands out to me in this timeline is the time between 10:08 and 10:41. That being the time of Savaage’s 9:59 phone call finishing to his next phone to X-ray place starting at 10:41. This gap is crucial because it’s within this timeframe that wt goes missing. This is unaccounted for time from ps. This is a red flag to me
 
JLZ said:
View attachment 234785
(Sixmaps)
Reedy area lower right adjacent to Benaroon Drive and Batar Creek Road; track mid-right to centre top; Albert Street centre top to top left, with part of cemetery showing upper left.
Click to expand...
JLZ,

The red search area shown below - which looks to run parallel to the track in your post - was searched very early in the 2018 police forensic search. (I think it's labelled "Week 1, Day 2", but it's hard to see.) Maybe your scenario explains why it was of interest.

Search area:
image.jpeg

Track:
image.png

Colour-coded map of the 2018 forensic search, from "Nowhere Child: New documents released at inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance", The Australian, 16 August 2019. Week 1 search areas are red. Week 2: purple. Week 3: grey. Week 4: mauve.
 
Keeping in mind that the time in which it would have taken someone to grab William and go would have been quick. In and out. Who in that short period of time was in the best position to do that? I know my answer
 
JLZ said:
I don't know. My notes say MFC left "about 9". But FFC rang and left a message for Spedding at 9:03; what would be the order of those 3 events?
Click to expand...
Yes I think that is correct about FF leaving by 0900hrs as FM was trying to get him out the door with the least amount of stress as possible … (she said "you look after you, and I will look after the kids" in a soothing manner....)

The phone call was made after FF left … after breakfast...and phone records show the phone call was made at 9.03..

In Caroline Overington's New Book she states that the FF left the house at 0840hrs - CCTV shows his car on the road on the way out of town, to confirm this ..

I will edit the Timeline to reflect this

EDIT to add Reference Missing William Tyrrell
 
Last edited:
SLouTh said:
This was part of the "Thread Timeline" that was being worked on a while ago... please note it hasn't been recently updated after Jube's Trial.... and there may be things that need updating.... It's still a work in progress....
Thought it might be of assistance in this discussion about times etc

**** Please note a lot of this was put together by Frogwell after she attended first inquest...****

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8:40 FF Leaves 48 Benaroon Drive for teleconference - his car captured on CCTV ( Reference: CO Book)
8.55-9.00-FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....
Click to expand...

Very helpful thank you.

For who ever is updating there's a slight error here...
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
… it was actually 10.37.
 
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