Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[JLZ]

Yes I think that is correct about FF leaving by 0900hrs as FM was trying to get him out the door with the least amount of stress as possible … (she said "you look after you, and I will look after the kids" in a soothing manner....)

The phone call was made after FF left … after breakfast...and phone records show the phone call was made at 9.03..

In Caroline Overington's New Book she states that the FF left the house at 0840hrs - CCTV shows his car on the road on the way out of town, to confirm this ..

I will edit the Timeline to reflect this

EDIT to add Reference Missing William Tyrrell

Brilliant. Does she say when his conference started and ended?

 

[bearbear]

BBM, did she say that at the inquest though or is that from an early article? It would have been about the same time as MFC left for his internet thing and I don't believe that link was ever made, just that the kids were riding bikes in the driveway, which possibly they did more than once that morning.

im wondering that too, it seems about the same time ff was leaving so could easily have been him driving out quickly in the gravel, and especially if he was a bit annoyed (as mentioned by fm about william being noisy etc) maybe driving fast?

 

[madoodi]

SLouTh,
Mr C sounds a bit unsure about the car: "He thought he heard the car stop and do a U Turn, or maybe turn in a circle before heading off again." Was he already listening to the car before it stopped or turned, or was that when he started listening?
Does he say that the car turned around before stopping at No.48, or did it stop at No.48 first and then turn around? (Or maybe it stopped before turning around and then stopped at No.48?)
Thanks!

I re-listened to some of the first episode of Lia's podcast and the FFC says when she was out with the kids on the bikes they saw a car (I believe she said green/grey) pull in slightly to the Miller's driveway and reverse out before driving away. Could this be the same car heard by the other neighbours?

 

[SLouTh]

Very helpful thank you.

For who ever is updating there's a slight error here...
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
… it was actually 10.37.

Thanks for pointing this error out - greatly appreciated... I will try and fix it now.... its a group effort timeline that has never been properly completed etc

I've made the alteration and reposted the whole timeline to keep a hard copy …..as it is a living document...

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8:40 FF Leaves 48 Benaroon Drive for teleconference - his car captured on CCTV ( Reference: CO Book)
8.55-9.00-FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home

9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....

 

[JLZ]

im wondering that too, it seems about the same time ff was leaving so could easily have been him driving out quickly in the gravel, and especially if he was a bit annoyed (as mentioned by fm about william being noisy etc) maybe driving fast?

It can't have been MFC leaving for his conference (now put at 8:40, but even if it was 9:15) that the Crabbs heard, because it was after their 9:30-35 return from their outing that they heard it. My concern was that FFC didn't relate a supposedly 9:00 car sighting to several other events that were reported as happening around the same time, which made me question whether it was around 9 or whether it was rather later as she also apparently thought at one time, or even imaginary. Putting things in sequence is a method I use to test my own memories, which get mixed up with dreams.

 

[SLouTh]

I re-listened to some of the first episode of Lia's podcast and the FFC says when she was out with the kids on the bikes they saw a car (I believe she said green/grey) pull in slightly to the Miller's driveway and reverse out before driving away. Could this be the same car heard by the other neighbours?

A lot of discussion in recent times of this important and valid point.... and I think it was conceded that they couldn't be the same car …. as in, the two cars were heard at very different times ..

9.10ish- Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver

10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car

However nothing to say the first car that FM actually saw, didn't come back later, unseen....

 

[JLZ]

JLZ,

The red search area shown below - which looks to run parallel to the track in your post - was searched very early in the 2018 police forensic search. (I think it's labelled "Week 1, Day 2", but it's hard to see.) Maybe your scenario explains why it was of interest.

Search area:
View attachment 234808

Track:
View attachment 234809

Colour-coded map of the 2018 forensic search, from "Nowhere Child: New documents released at inquest into William Tyrrell's disappearance", The Australian, 16 August 2019. Week 1 search areas are red. Week 2: purple. Week 3: grey. Week 4: mauve.

In that scenario someone has lured William for a walk up by the cemetery and is bringing him back to leave him in Benaroon Drive, with the expectation that he won't be articulate enough to explain what happened. But the search is already underway; William begins to run towards FFC, the perpetrator trips and silences him (the shriek) and quickly backtracks, carrying William, to where s/he's left the car; perhaps at the cemetery, perhaps near the start of the track off Batar Creek Road. Perhaps s/he heads down Laurel Street although I would expect at that point William to have been exhibiting distress.

 

[JLZ]

A lot of discussion in recent times of this important and valid point.... and I think it was conceded that they couldn't be the same car …. as in, the two cars were heard at very different times ..

9.10ish- Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver

10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car

However nothing to say the first car that FM actually saw, didn't come back later, unseen....

Or having located the children the driver came back via the track at the top of Benaroon, without bringing the car into the street. And the other car was the postie.

 

[SLouTh]

Brilliant. Does she say when his conference started and ended?

Not that I have found yet.... I will keep looking...….
But it does say that Police did ping all of the Mobile Towers that morning....

 

[JLZ]

A lot of discussion in recent times of this important and valid point.... and I think it was conceded that they couldn't be the same car …. as in, the two cars were heard at very different times ..

9.10ish- Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver

10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car

However nothing to say the first car that FM actually saw, didn't come back later, unseen....

Was it FFC who thought MFC left about 9 or up until 9:15? And also that the kids were playing on their bikes at about 9? If she was out by at least 20 minutes with regard to the first, wouldn't she be mistaken in the same way about the second? so wasn't the biking earlier, perhaps from 8:30-8:40? If the Wilsons heard the children playing outside, and left home at about 9, it wouldn't make sense that the children weren't out there until 9:10-ish.

 

[SLouTh]

Or having located the children the driver came back via the track at the top of Benaroon, without bringing the car into the street. And the other car was the postie.

So many different scenarios and they are all are valid, and could all work, with the "abduction theory."

 

[SLouTh]

I have found something in Missing William Tyrrell that is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….

the subject has already caused some discussion …. so I thought I'd post the Book Version

Missing William Tyrrell
as it is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….​

"Not long after FM called BS about the washing machine (that call lasted 38secs)" ...

" short time later, the phone rang again, but it wasn't Mr Spedding.'

'The phone records show that local handyman GO called at 0910hrs to ask about some repairs that William's FGM needed done to the deck.'

'The FM has no recollection of receiving this call'

"She was, as it seems, already outside with William." at that time...

This would account for GO talking to the "FGM Daughter"…. but not on the Thursday - the day before..as previously reported .... there is also no mention of the "quote" being accepted...

edit spelling typo

 

[SLouTh]

She made tea before 9:37 and they were still drinking it when she missed William? I remember her saying it was lukewarm, but still . . . !

Another point to note from that article (74, this is to you) is that FFC didn't read the text message until after she'd missed and begun searching for William.

I'm not sure the making tea at 9.37 is correct in that article ….I'm with you JLZ seems way too early

Most do suggest it was closer to 10:00am

Missing William Tyrrell states
"William's FM put the kettle on and began to prepare tea for herself and her mum and it was by now, 10am, and she can clearly remember the details of events that follow, as morning tea was a ritual in her family,"

There is more about how they made the tea and if anyone wants all of that detail let me know and I will post it.....

And remember Mr Craddock made a big deal about making the cup of tea ????

 

[deugirtni]

.... Another point to note from that article (74, this is to you) is that FFC didn't read the text message until after she'd missed and begun searching for William.

I don't believe that is a fact. It also isn't clear in that link. imo.

 

[Hilly]

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book.

MFC leaves around 8.40
Kids have breakfast
Kids dressed teeth brushed
FFC called BS at 9.03
William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked. Lindsay stays inside with FGM.
GO calls at 9.10. FFC outside with William so didn’t recall that call.
FFC hurts hand while playing with William so they went back inside tends to hurt hand. Maybe around 9.15
Lindsay wondered what they were playing outside and she wants to play mummy monsters too. So back out they went to play. Collect sticks and leaves for cards.
Then maybe around 9.30 start making cards. William photo 9.37.
After awhile FGM says lets have a look at those new bikes. So out they went to driveway to ride bikes.
I’m thinking they went to ride bikes around 9.45 till around 10.00
While riding bikes FFC and Lindsay see green/grey car. Lindsay falls into garden. William copies her FGM said that’s enough time to put bikes away.
FFC says she goes in makes teas around 10.00. Kids on deck. She comes back out plays dice with the kids talks with FGM. William gets bored starts playing Daddy tiger Lindsay wants to work on her card so she stays on deck while William playing roaring running around corner it goes quiet. FFC goes looking maybe around 10.15

I think the only times we can be sure of are phone call and photos. The other times could be out 5 - 10 mins.

 

[SLouTh]

After awhile FGM says lets have a look at those new bikes. So out they went to driveway to ride bikes.
I’m thinking they went to ride bikes around 9.45 till around 10.00
While riding bikes FFC and Lindsay see green/grey car. Lindsay falls into garden. William copies her FGM said that’s enough time to put bikes away.

Great summation Hilly.....

BBM
This part is strange to me re FGM …….. why didn't she also see this green/grey car??

She was out there with the children and the bikes.... and was the person saying "ready, set, go" etc for the kids racing their bikes …….and was still there to suggest packing them up at the end....

Especially with Lindsay asking about the car?? You would expect FGM to have a look - probably expecting to say "oh that is so&so and he's a local etc "

It's just that, another Adult seeing the car, and able to provide a further description etc would have been so much more helpful …..

Unless of course it was suppressed information as well.....

 

[peekinandy]

View attachment 234545
Is that gravel on the driveway ?​

I'm not sure if we are talking about the same thing Whang - but my post was removed - so better not go into that. Nothing severe - just no link

 

[peekinandy]

deleted

 

[peekinandy]

I have found something in Missing William Tyrrell that is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….

the subject has already caused some discussion …. so I thought I'd post the Book Version

Missing William Tyrrell
as it is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….​

"Not long after FM called BS about the washing machine (that call lasted 38secs)" ...

" short time later, the phone rang again, but it wasn't Mr Spedding.'

'The phone records show that local handyman GO called at 0910hrs to ask about some repairs that William's FGM needed done to the deck.'

'The FM has no recollection of receiving this call'

"She was, as it seems, already outside with William." at that time...

This would account for GO talking to the "FGM Daughter"…. but not on the Thursday - the day before..as previously reported .... there is also no mention of the "quote" being accepted...

edit spelling typo

Wow.. Does this mean GO did have contact with the FGM's household? - even if the day before (it isn't clear to me) but if so - he could have been alerted to the fact that grandkids were coming the next day??

 

[deugirtni]

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book.

MFC leaves around 8.40
Kids have breakfast
Kids dressed teeth brushed
FFC called BS at 9.03
William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked. Lindsay stays inside with FGM.
GO calls at 9.10. FFC outside with William so didn’t recall that call.
FFC hurts hand while playing with William so they went back inside tends to hurt hand. Maybe around 9.15
Lindsay wondered what they were playing outside and she wants to play mummy monsters too. So back out they went to play. Collect sticks and leaves for cards.
Then maybe around 9.30 start making cards. William photo 9.37.
After awhile FGM says lets have a look at those new bikes. So out they went to driveway to ride bikes.
I’m thinking they went to ride bikes around 9.45 till around 10.00
While riding bikes FFC and Lindsay see green/grey car. Lindsay falls into garden. William copies her FGM said that’s enough time to put bikes away.
FFC says she goes in makes teas around 10.00. Kids on deck. She comes back out plays dice with the kids talks with FGM. William gets bored starts playing Daddy tiger Lindsay wants to work on her card so she stays on deck while William playing roaring running around corner it goes quiet. FFC goes looking maybe around 10.15

I think the only times we can be sure of are phone call and photos. The other times could be out 5 - 10 mins.

The photo times are also not times of which we can be sure afterall. The coroner requested they be independently forensically examined by professionals at the end of Inquest Tranche#2, as police were unable to explain how the adjusted time was arrived at. We have not yet heard the results. imo.