Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[deugirtni]

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book.

MFC leaves around 8.40
Kids have breakfast
Kids dressed teeth brushed
FFC called BS at 9.03
William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked. Lindsay stays inside with FGM.
GO calls at 9.10. FFC outside with William so didn’t recall that call.
FFC hurts hand while playing with William so they went back inside tends to hurt hand. Maybe around 9.15
Lindsay wondered what they were playing outside and she wants to play mummy monsters too. So back out they went to play. Collect sticks and leaves for cards.
Then maybe around 9.30 start making cards. William photo 9.37.
After awhile FGM says lets have a look at those new bikes. So out they went to driveway to ride bikes.
I’m thinking they went to ride bikes around 9.45 till around 10.00
While riding bikes FFC and Lindsay see green/grey car. Lindsay falls into garden. William copies her FGM said that’s enough time to put bikes away.
FFC says she goes in makes teas around 10.00. Kids on deck. She comes back out plays dice with the kids talks with FGM. William gets bored starts playing Daddy tiger Lindsay wants to work on her card so she stays on deck while William playing roaring running around corner it goes quiet. FFC goes looking maybe around 10.15

I think the only times we can be sure of are phone call and photos. The other times could be out 5 - 10 mins.

Didn't GO testify that he had called FGM's home phone on the day prior to W's disappearance, and FGM's other daughter had answered the phone? Did he call again the next day? Or are these days getting mixed up??

 

[peekinandy]

Didn't GO testify that he had called FGM's home phone on the day prior to W's disappearance, and FGM's other daughter had answered the phone? Did he call again the next day? Or are these days getting mixed up??

Wow, this the $1 million dollar question... Did GO have knowledge of the families' arrival? Wasn't he in town on Friday to pay his 'advertising' - very coincidental! Who was with him, or was he alone?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Didn't GO testify that he had called FGM's home phone on the day prior to W's disappearance, and FGM's other daughter had answered the phone? Did he call again the next day? Or are these days getting mixed up??

Btw, if there is another daughter indeed , then there would be another witness to that morning of abduction also. Where is/was she? Did she show up at the inquest?

 

[deugirtni]

Btw, if there is another daughter indeed , then there would be another witness to that morning of abduction also. Where is/was she? Did she show up at the inquest?

I'm not sure, but to my knowledge FM only has one sister.. and FM reportedly picked that sister up from the airport on one of the days following W's disappearance, and that is when she remembered about the two cars she had seen on the morning of W's disappearance. So if FM's sister was there at FGM's house on the day before W's disappearance, but then at some point left, and then had to be picked up from the airport, did she fly both times or did she drive on the day before? So confusing. imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Was it FFC who thought MFC left about 9 or up until 9:15? And also that the kids were playing on their bikes at about 9? If she was out by at least 20 minutes with regard to the first, wouldn't she be mistaken in the same way about the second? so wasn't the biking earlier, perhaps from 8:30-8:40? If the Wilsons heard the children playing outside, and left home at about 9, it wouldn't make sense that the children weren't out there until 9:10-ish.

In any case, I thought, the biking was before the playing/running/climbing/roaring?? Always felt so, until today, when I find another sequence, to my astonishment.

 

[Wexford]

Thanks for pointing this error out - greatly appreciated... I will try and fix it now.... its a group effort timeline that has never been properly completed etc

I've made the alteration and reposted the whole timeline to keep a hard copy …..as it is a living document...

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8:40 FF Leaves 48 Benaroon Drive for teleconference - his car captured on CCTV ( Reference: CO Book)
8.55-9.00-FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home

9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....

What time does MFC return? Who is the male voice AMS hears calling at 10.40?

 

[Chrissy74]

I have found something in Missing William Tyrrell that is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….

the subject has already caused some discussion …. so I thought I'd post the Book Version

Missing William Tyrrell
as it is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….​

"Not long after FM called BS about the washing machine (that call lasted 38secs)" ...

" short time later, the phone rang again, but it wasn't Mr Spedding.'

'The phone records show that local handyman GO called at 0910hrs to ask about some repairs that William's FGM needed done to the deck.'

'The FM has no recollection of receiving this call'

"She was, as it seems, already outside with William." at that time...

This would account for GO talking to the "FGM Daughter"…. but not on the Thursday - the day before..as previously reported .... there is also no mention of the "quote" being accepted...

edit spelling typo

Interesting.. that’s the first time I’ve heard this..

 

[interested64]

Ho

Thanks for pointing this error out - greatly appreciated... I will try and fix it now.... its a group effort timeline that has never been properly completed etc

I've made the alteration and reposted the whole timeline to keep a hard copy …..as it is a living document...

8.30 Breakfast FM FGM and Kids - Scrambled egg and toast and orange juice
8.40 - AMS reverses out of her house to take her child to daycare to arrive at 9am. Says there are no cars parked on the street that day when she leaves.
8:40 FF Leaves 48 Benaroon Drive for teleconference - his car captured on CCTV ( Reference: CO Book)
8.55-9.00-FFC said in her evidence that the MFC had already left when kids were riding bikes on the driveway.
9.00 - Mrs Wilson hears little children outside, leaves house? Doesn't notice any strange cars in the street.
9.03 - FM calls BS, can't remember which phone she uses (she used the landline), leaves a message asking about when the part arrives
9.10? - Kids riding bikes in the driveway, FM notices an Ltd teal coloured car do a 3 point turn in the next door neighbours driveway, remembers driver
9.10- FF plays with WT in the backyard that overlooks Benaroon Dr. Notices the 2 parked cars that she noticed earlier that day are still parked there, tries to get WT to climb a tree
9.30-9.35 Crabb's get home

9.37- the last of 5 photos is taken of WT in his spiderman outfit while playing on the back deck, The kids have been drawing pictures to take to the cemetery later in the day
9.59 Savage on phone for 8 Minutes by Der Beacroft
10.05-10.15 Crabb's heard car ( they said about 40mins after they got home )
*** 10.05 - 10.15 Estimated time of disappearance by Det L Beacroft ..
*** 10:10 by Laidlaw
10.07 Savage on telephone - Det L Beacroft
10.15 - 10.30 - WT is playing Mummy Tiger and hiding game around the side of the house, WT is bored and restless waiting for FF to return, FM expecting a text from FF that usually states he will be home in 5 minutes. FM says to kids shall we go down the front and look for Daddy's car'
10.19 - FF has script filled at Lakewood chemist
10.30? - The Crabbes at 51 both noticed hearing a car driving up Benaroon dr, turning and driving away fast, they thought it sounded like the postie. So if that car left the street it went out the Batar Creek rd end of the street.
10.30 approx,- FF states he sent a text via Siri that he is 5 minutes away.
10.30 - FM notices it's quiet and start looking for WT
10.30 - 10.35 - LH is unpacking groceries from her car, she sees the man opposite on his ride on mower when she comes in and gives him a wave. Didn't hear or see any cars.
9.37 Heather Savage leaves for Bingo and doesn’t see anything
10.40 - FM is at the front gate of AMS place, meeting for the 1st time, AMS notices she can hear a male calling out for WT from the area behind the FGM's house, begins to start help searching. Because she knows someone is searching uphill she decides to head down towards the Batar Creek rd end of Benaroon Dr. It seems the women split at Ellendale rd. AMS goes down to the bus stop but has no recollection of seeing the man on his ride on mower at that stage. When she returns up the street she sees the FM coming out of Ellendale and the FM says to her, he has hit his head and can't respond or he is not here and now I have to call the police.
10.41 Savage on Phone to X-ray - Det L Beaucroft
10.45 Ronald Chapman’s sees Beige 4WD with child in the back in Laurel Street
statement signed and walkthrough interview April 2017 -LH
10.56 - FM calls the police from her mother’s landline, her husband has arrived home somewhere in this time and is searching frantically.. - FM stayed home to care for daughter while FD searched
11.00 Rowley first saw job
11.06 Rowley arrives @ #48 Benaroon - doorknocked and looked around houses, canvassed every house and business that may have had CCTV showing vehicles entering or leaving area, identified someone at local café had asked for directions, first spoke with FM about cars she saw 3 days later(15th)


Hope this may help clarify, if we do now know new information please edit and change....

How long to walk to AMS house..did they see Heather...im thinking 10.15..10.30 window is more likely

 

[interested64]

I have found something in Missing William Tyrrell that is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….

the subject has already caused some discussion …. so I thought I'd post the Book Version

Missing William Tyrrell
as it is very different to what was reported in MSN from the Inquest - 2nd Tranche...….​

"Not long after FM called BS about the washing machine (that call lasted 38secs)" ...

" short time later, the phone rang again, but it wasn't Mr Spedding.'

'The phone records show that local handyman GO called at 0910hrs to ask about some repairs that William's FGM needed done to the deck.'

'The FM has no recollection of receiving this call'

"She was, as it seems, already outside with William." at that time...

This would account for GO talking to the "FGM Daughter"…. but not on the Thursday - the day before..as previously reported .... there is also no mention of the "quote" being accepted...

edit spelling typo

So he could of got no reply or fgm answered etc...but did he pop in when he was getting advert done that morning

 

[Blues Clues]

On what GO said at the inquest

When he said to Craddock he spoke to FGM's other daughter on the Thursday, FFC turned to the lady next to her, shrugged her shoulders and gave a facial expression of "no clue what or who that's about".

He didn't say "she said she was FGM's daughter". Maybe he just assumed.

Now with what CO has said in her book, it is even more confusing.

 

[Blues Clues]

I'm reluctant to take CO's version on anything as factual.

In this piece she talks about Ron Chapman's place being one of the 21 homes in the Benaroon/Ellensdale Estate. It's not at all. He lived in Laurel St in town 1.6kms from Benaroon Drive.

What else is she misreporting?

Australia 'needs to bring William Tyrrell home' | Sky News Australia

 

[Whàngarei]

The person who drove the Freelander visiting the fifgm house the day before according to PS , May have been female and may have answered the phone on behalf of ffgm. Not necessarily the daughter.

 

[JLZ]

On what GO said at the inquest

When he said to Craddock he spoke to FGM's other daughter on the Thursday, FFC turned to the lady next to her, shrugged her shoulders and gave a facial expression of "no clue what or who that's about".

He didn't say "she said she was FGM's daughter". Maybe he just assumed.

Now with what CO has said in her book, it is even more confusing.

Or he's making it up as he goes along. He realized what he said didn't make sense, or he saw incredulity in FFC's face, and quickly amended to "the other daughter".

 

[Blues Clues]

Or he's making it up as he goes along. He realized what he said didn't make sense, or he saw incredulity in FFC's face, and quickly amended to "the other daughter".

Quite possible he isn't being completely honest. It was his comment re "the other daughter" though that brought FFC's reaction.

 

[drsleuth]

Here is my attempt at a Timeline

Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Friday 12 the September 2014

06:30 ish : PS goes for his walk

06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up

07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses

07:30 : breakfast & dress etc

08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.

08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )

08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan

09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )


09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds

09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also

*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),

*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”

* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.

* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”

* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.

* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave

* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”

* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )

* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.

* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”

* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.

* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”

09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

10:00 -10:30ish :

FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )

Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.

Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.

WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .

He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing

10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing

10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist

10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school

10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising

10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go

10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars

10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.

10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )


10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars

10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.

10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.

11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job

11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.

Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.

11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive

11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives

11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search

12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )

12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )

"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )

12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons

13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )

13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )

14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile

16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital


Feel free to add or correct . It's not complete.......

 

[Hilly]

Great summation Hilly.....

BBM
This part is strange to me re FGM …….. why didn't she also see this green/grey car??

She was out there with the children and the bikes.... and was the person saying "ready, set, go" etc for the kids racing their bikes …….and was still there to suggest packing them up at the end....

Especially with Lindsay asking about the car?? You would expect FGM to have a look - probably expecting to say "oh that is so&so and he's a local etc "

It's just that, another Adult seeing the car, and able to provide a further description etc would have been so much more helpful …..

Unless of course it was suppressed information as well.....

Thanks Slouth

I wondered why FGM didn’t see car maybe she went to toilet or suppressed like you say.

I have been so confused by all the different times and information being reported was hoping CO would have info as close as possible for the book.

 

[Hilly]

The photo times are also not times of which we can be sure afterall. The coroner requested they be independently forensically examined by professionals at the end of Inquest Tranche#2, as police were unable to explain how the adjusted time was arrived at. We have not yet heard the results. imo.

That’s true hopefully we will find out about that.
Thanks deugirtni for reminder.

 

[JLZ]

Quite possible he isn't being completely honest. It was his comment re "the other daughter" though that brought FFC's reaction.

The reaction you saw. I was supposing she may have had a surprised look when he said he spoke to her on Thursday, before "other daughter" put her completely at a loss.

 

[JLZ]

Ho

How long to walk to AMS house..did they see Heather...im thinking 10.15..10.30 window is more likely

Across the back yard and across the road: a minute, two at most.

 

[Hilly]

I'm reluctant to take CO's version on anything as factual.

In this piece she talks about Ron Chapman's place being one of the 21 homes in the Benaroon/Ellensdale Estate. It's not at all. He lived in Laurel St in town 1.6kms from Benaroon Drive.

What else is she misreporting?

Australia 'needs to bring William Tyrrell home' | Sky News Australia

Yes that is a slip up haven’t got to that yet. Disappointing.