Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[Estelle]

Four people (FFC, MFC, FGM, LT) all having knowledge of what happened and lying for 7 years seems unlikely imo. Sounds like LT at no stage saw her brother get hurt. I wonder if she has said that her mother dissapeared for 30 minutes with her grandma's car. Parents sleeping in different rooms sounds like adults fighting not kids to me. Quite easy to put kids to sleep then carry them to a different room

Your comments make a lot of sense to me.

1. Four people (FFC, MFC, FGM, LT) all having knowledge of what happened and lying for 7 years seems unlikely imo.
2. Sounds like LT at no stage saw her brother get hurt.
3. I wonder if she has said that her mother disappeared for 30 minutes with her grandma's car.
4. Parents sleeping in different rooms sounds like adults fighting not kids to me. Quite easy to put kids to sleep then carry them to a different room

 

[drsleuth]

sorry to contradict CO but initially FFC set out from the Benaroon dr house by herself down to Batar Creek rd. where she looked in reeds down near the bus stop and heard the strange bird cry and then went out onto BC road and drove up to the riding school and then returned. FFC only went to AMS after the MFC had returned and he began looking. After talking with AMS, she volunteered to help look. They walked down Benaroon st together and split up at Ellendale. AMS went down to Batar Cr. rd thinking the bus stop might be attractive to little kids cause it has paintings on it. They then met up again with FFC saying she'll have to phone the police and went back up to the house. My info comes from the inquest from AMS.

I've got in my notes that at about 10:40 AMS went out to have a smoke & saw a lady at her fence, it was the FFC, FFC asked if she had seen a little boy. AMS said no. AMS said she was anxious ( FFC ) .

Craddock asked AMS if she recalled how long FFC said WT had been missing, she replied about 5 minutes. She could hear a male voice calling at Williams name.

AMS than went down towards Batar Creek Rd as she though it was the biggest danger. She walked down , looking left to right at each property looking for a spiderman costume. AMS walked around bus stop. She said the FFC pointed to FGM house saying he went missing from there ( AMS didn't know the FGM or who lived there )

Not sure how this fits in with the FFC's drive..............

 

[Ozgal]

But when the Daily Telegraph reported in September that NSW Police had zeroed in on a new person of interest, the foster family issued an angry statement.

"Imagine waking up to an unsubstantiated article published by a large media outlet claiming a 'senior officer' within NSW Police shared that they have a NEW person of interest, while inferring that this case is on the brink of being solved," the couple said on the "Where's William" website.

"Once again we are forced to watch others objectify William for personal gain. Fake news causes more heartache for William's loved ones."

William Tyrrell's foster parents say they have 'nothing to hide' - NZ Herald

Now this is a very odd reaction for grieving parents whose child has been missing for 7 years. A senior officer within NSW Police is hardly an unsubstantiated report. I can understand them being upset that the article was published without the police notifying them first, but this is extreme.

Yep I don't understand that statement either...imo LE may have let on then that oh we know what you did and your our new suspect....hence the angry statement being issued by FP's....if your child was missing you'd support that LE may have found further information and it was a real lead of maybe finding the perpetrator....but instead they just shut it down....very odd IMO

 

[JBowie]

So much of what was said can be true, like "I walked two, three metres" - she could have walked to where he had fallen. Much of the shock and disbelief about this "event" happening could be real shock, albeit with some crucial details missing. Hence why it could be easy to say - a lot is not lies.

The interview I refer to occurred some time after the event. Both foster parents came across as quite calm.

 

[SLouTh]

FFC was letting tea cool abit before drinking

Can anyone at the inquest remember when Craddock QC asked the FM how she normally took her tea???
And what was the answer??

I know it seemed an obscure question at the time...... as it does now.....
IMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm not sure that is correct, as all the evidence I heard at the inquest said he left just before 9am

This article says -

Around 9.15am, William’s foster father left the house to find better reception for an important work phone call.
He headed for town to make a Skype call, and go to the chemist.

Foster mum gives version of events

 

[JBowie]

.if your child was missing you'd support that LE may have found further information and it was a real lead of maybe finding the perpetrator....but instead they just shut it down....very odd IMO

Yes, as I said yesterday, ordinarily you'd expect a reaction like "A new suspect? Great! Who is it?"

 

[inkpink]

Yes, as I said yesterday, ordinarily you'd expect a reaction like "A new suspect? Great! Who is it?"

I think they knew it was themselves...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I have a big problem accepting that FGM would go along with FM’s cover up plans if there had been an accident.

If FM was hysterical, surely FGM would tell her the plan was ridiculous . She seemed to be a well known person in Kendall, who involved herself helping out in the community.
I thought she was recovering from an operation, dont recall her mental capabilities being questioned. Wasnt she only in her seventies?

She was 81 at the time, she died this year at the age of 88.

 

[SLouTh]

I've got in my notes that at about 10:40 AMS went out to have a smoke & saw a lady at her fence, it was the FFC, FFC asked if she had seen a little boy. AMS said no. AMS said she was anxious ( FFC ) .

Craddock asked AMS if she recalled how long FFC said WT had been missing, she replied about 5 minutes. She could hear a male voice calling at Williams name.

AMS than went down towards Batar Creek Rd as she though it was the biggest danger. She walked down , looking left to right at each property looking for a spiderman costume. AMS walked around bus stop. She said the FFC pointed to FGM house saying he went missing from there ( AMS didn't know the FGM or who lived there )

Not sure how this fits in with the FFC's drive..............

It would fit if the drive occurred first .....

IMO

 

[iiiii's]

Does anyone remember the sequence re LH? FFC and AMS went and enlisted LH. But did FFC try LH first and LH just said she hadn't seen William?

yes, I believe I do. When AMS and FFC returned to the house to phone the police, after that they went back down Benaroon drive again, trying to search in people's yards until they came to LH's house. LH had her kids home sick from school and asked if they had seen a little boy in their yard, she searched her own yard while the FFC crossed the road and searched the land behind the bus stop. The MFC was then down near that end of the street and he was running and yelling everywhere which stood out to LH and she asked AMS what the story was with him. Then LH got her little one and put her in a stroller and decided to start looking on BC rd, asking her daughter to call out cause if WT could hear another kid calling out, it might not seem threatening. I don't recall the direction she took but always imagined that she had headed towards the riding school as well. Friends who were driving along, noticed her on BC rd, stopped and asked her what she was doing. She told them about the lost boy and they volunteered to return with their quad bikes and cover the whole tract of land behind her house and behind all the houses down that side of Benaroon dr. They returned within minutes and LH returned to Benaroon dr up to Ellendale where she ran into a police officer. She asked if she could ask people on SM to come help search and was given that permission. heaps of people turned up.

 

[Inplainsight]

The FFC saw 2 cars, this was disputed by the neighbours.

Photos taken as proof of life. The time on the photos is only as accurate as the time on tbe device. It's a variable.

The driver in tbe teal car who turned in the driveway - was he ever identified

The white semi trailer on Batar Creek road - was the driver found

Maybe tbere are just too many points in the testimony that can not be verified

 

[Francesca]

Hands up anyone who believes WT was abducted? Or have we become so cynical we have to now not believe anything in cases like this? When you see cases like DM or CS, it makes you wonder what goes through the minds of those people who carry out these crimes against children or anyone for that matter. On second thoughts I dont think I want to know what goes on in their heads or if they blame bad potty training from their childhood as an excuse for their actions.

The abduction theory in a quiet cul de sac when they were visitors, never made sense to me, but then again, neither did the alternative of him wandering into the bush when I saw the terrain. The other option was a family member from either the foster or biological side, but both options were ruled out by GJ. So I had no idea what happened.
Regarding FM's walk through and how quiet it was... yet she immediately jumped to the idea that one of the cars was suspicious. Even though there was no suggestion that she heard a car while she was looking for William. With or without a car, there's no way William could have vanished into silence. Grabbing a startled child is not a silent business, and the sound of a car would alert a frantic mother.

 

[JLZ]

yes, I believe I do. When AMS and FFC returned to the house to phone the police, after that they went back down Benaroon drive again, trying to search in people's yards until they came to LH's house. LH had her kids home sick from school and asked if they had seen a little boy in their yard, she searched her own yard while the FFC crossed the road and searched the land behind the bus stop. The MFC was then down near that end of the street and he was running and yelling everywhere which stood out to LH and she asked AMS what the story was with him. Then LH got her little one and put her in a stroller and decided to start looking on BC rd, asking her daughter to call out cause if WT could hear another kid calling out, it might not seem threatening. I don't recall the direction she took but always imagined that she had headed towards the riding school as well. Friends who were driving along, noticed her on BC rd, stopped and asked her what she was doing. She told them about the lost boy and they volunteered to return with their quad bikes and cover the whole tract of land behind her house and behind all the houses down that side of Benaroon dr. They returned within minutes and LH returned to Benaroon dr up to Ellendale where she ran into a police officer. She asked if she could ask people on SM to come help search and was given that permission. heaps of people turned up.

Thank you. I find I've got a note that it was 11:30 when FFC and AMS approached LH and LH joined in. LH came home from shopping between 10:30 and 10:45.

 

[Shadow@light]

I did the original comment about the "birds weren't singing" was from the 60 Minutes interview exactly a year after William's disappearance. She did a walk through of the disappearance and I found it "off". It's the same interview were the female police officer says that something is "off" and William isn't missing, something else has happened.

That is quite true it can happen, if some one is facing a terrible situation. The world goes silent, but the birds are not singing it is not them but you or person facing fear your senses cancelled out noise so you can hear your child voice answer back. When you are in a terrible situation or facing one your sensery go on high alert.. When I lived in a Children home at 11 years old(this one was pretty bad) when I wrote for the Royal Commission years later, I describe being in the ground of the place, in was like living in a glass bottle, you could not even hear the birds singing, yet you could see them over the fence. They may been chirping away but looking back on the memory years later I would say there was no sound, strangely when I spoke to the Royal Commission they said it was the same expression other former children spoke off living there. Peole have said to me, things I saw and experienced along with other children, looking at the painful memory just as the FM is recounting the event William gone missing, all sound goes mute, you hear your voice ears straining to hear William to answer back yet there is nonething.

 

[JBowie]

Abduction of random children by strangers is extremely rare.

I guess that depends on the area/region. Opportunistic abductions of kids in cities is, unfortunately, not too rare.

However, down a dead end road in a country backwater, where lurkers would stand out, and where comings and goings tend to be noticed, it's hard to make a case for opportunistic abduction.

I guess the proximity of the bush could make people imagine that a bogey man (pedo) sprang out and swiped William in a flash and quickly dissappered into thicket never to be seen again. I have never bought that scenario.

Frankly, as for motive, originally I thought it most likely that the bio parents may have hired someone to follow the foster family and grab William when opportunity arose, but they would have had to be hanging around in plain view of locals waiting for the off chance that William may come within grabbing reach of them.

Also, having since read quite a bit about the bio family, I strongly doubt that they would have had the wherewithal to organize such a plot.

 

[Francesca]

The exact same was said about CS's abduction. No one would go to a an isolated spot with children at 6.30 at night. The majority of the public did not believe anyone could enter a tent with parents asleep inside and sneak out a child.
The parents were abused, threatened and villified by the public for their interviews and how they responded, how they drove around looking for their child and didn't wait at the tent, why they even went camping with kids in the first place, the way she was dressed, her parenting style, one parent being a step parent so........

Yet while many members of the public immediately suspected the parents, the police soon established there was an outsider in the camp. If the CS scenario had happened in William's case, a neighbour would have stepped up to confidentially tell police he/ she had had a visit from a contact selling drugs. These neighbours were in their usual quiet street, so they were more likely to identify someone out of place, and could have told the police. Tradesmen, verified visitors etc could have been ruled out, but there could have been another "doll collector" in the bunch.
Yes, it's possible that a child could be snatched off a culdesac but it's extremely unusual that nobody saw or heard anything when even an unverified car would stand out.

 

[Estelle]

The FFC saw 2 cars, this was disputed by the neighbours.

Photos taken as proof of life. The time on the photos is only as accurate as the time on tbe device. It's a variable.

The driver in tbe teal car who turned in the driveway - was he ever identified

The white semi trailer on Batar Creek road - was the driver found

Maybe tbere are just too many points in the testimony that can not be verified

It's called embellishment!

 

[drsleuth]

Does anyone remember the sequence re LH? FFC and AMS went and enlisted LH. But did FFC try LH first and LH just said she hadn't seen William?

I'm not sure JLZ, but she did go there with AMS

Can anyone at the inquest remember when Craddock QC asked the FM how she normally took her tea???
And what was the answer??

I know it seemed an obscure question at the time...... as it does now.....
IMO

In the end we learnt that the FFC likes to let her tea sit to cool a bit, so she didn't get to finish her cup of tea

 

[drsleuth]

yes, I believe I do. When AMS and FFC returned to the house to phone the police, after that they went back down Benaroon drive again, trying to search in people's yards until they came to LH's house. LH had her kids home sick from school and asked if they had seen a little boy in their yard, she searched her own yard while the FFC crossed the road and searched the land behind the bus stop. The MFC was then down near that end of the street and he was running and yelling everywhere which stood out to LH and she asked AMS what the story was with him. Then LH got her little one and put her in a stroller and decided to start looking on BC rd, asking her daughter to call out cause if WT could hear another kid calling out, it might not seem threatening. I don't recall the direction she took but always imagined that she had headed towards the riding school as well. Friends who were driving along, noticed her on BC rd, stopped and asked her what she was doing. She told them about the lost boy and they volunteered to return with their quad bikes and cover the whole tract of land behind her house and behind all the houses down that side of Benaroon dr. They returned within minutes and LH returned to Benaroon dr up to Ellendale where she ran into a police officer. She asked if she could ask people on SM to come help search and was given that permission. heaps of people turned up.

Yep , that's what I re-call as well I think, it's so hard to remember every little detail. I don't have much written down for LH's evidence re times etc