Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #62

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I beg to differ with you:

Human DNA has been recovered from a Neanderthal fossil 70,000 years old. That's a record, but there may be plenty of DNA recoverable from a human body 10, 50 or even 150 years after death.

How long does DNA last?

I wasn't referring to the DNA of the dead person. I was referring to finding DNA from the killer.

In the McStay family case, after the children and parents were found buried in the high desert, in an area much like the bush, ---there was no identifiable DNA from the perpetrators found on the bodies. There was enough DNA to identify the bodies. But not DNA to show who killed and buried them. It had decomposed from the elements during the years they were decomposing.

‘Monster’ Slaughters Entire Family — Mom, Dad, 2 Young Sons — And Buries Them In The Desert | Oxygen Official Site
In the fall of 2013, an off-road motorcyclist found parts of a skull in the desert in Victorville, California, about 100 miles from Fallbrook. There were two shallow graves. Each burial site contained remains of an adult and a child.

Since so much time had passed, there was no useful DNA, but dental records were used to confirm the remains as those of the McStays, the San Bernardino Sheriff’s Department announced at a news conference. A three-pound sledgehammer was also found at the site. The cause of death for all four victims was determined to be blunt force trauma.
 
I seem to remember hearing that going horse riding was part of the days plans and that it was all booked in. Maybe it was a podcast I listened to - maybe it was “Nowhere Child” by The Australian. Does anyone else recall this?

Yes, I believe it was WiWT Podcast. I heard it just last week and I went looking for it yesterday and it appears to have been edited out unless I just keep missing it again.

IIRC FFC stated that she had searched online for activities to do and I believe she did say horse riding. When I realised where the new search is I got goose bumps. I can't remember if she searched the night before or that morning though. Very bizarre imo.
 
When we first got a mobile we had to leave the house and stand in the middle of the street to use it! Things have improved a lot since then but we still have intermittent problems.

The guy I mentioned is in a valley between the road and big hill at the rear of his property. He told me the suggested fixes were expensive and he will probably not bother.
 
Media Watch just covered the way police have used media in this case to put pressure on suspects .. it was scathing. Will post the video when it’s available. I think I’ll reserve judgement on these latest developments until I see some actual evidence.

Ep 42 - William Tyrrell mystery
i saw that too, not a good look for media!
 
How would you describe an actual psychopath?

So here’s my very layman descriptions. I have a narcissist ex (I’m sure I’m not alone) though a psychologist thought he was a sociopath

Psychopath - no empathy, capable of pure evil and enjoys every moment of your suffering

Sociopath - lacks empathy, doesn’t care about your feelings, capable of killing if you get in his way

Narcissist - low empathy, believes himself to be far superior to you, enjoys gaslighting, capable of killing if cornered (about to be exposed)
 
A couple of snippets from Wiki on Factitious disorder imposed on another (Munchausen)

"In one study, the average age of the affected individual at the time of diagnosis was 4 years old. Slightly over 50% were aged 24 months or younger, and 75% were under six years old. The average duration from onset of symptoms to diagnosis was 22 months. By the time of diagnosis, six percent of the affected persons were dead, mostly from apnea (a common result of smothering) or starvation, and seven percent had long-term or permanent injury. About half of the affected had siblings; 25% of the known siblings were dead, and 61% of siblings had symptoms similar to the affected or that were otherwise suspicious. The mother was the perpetrator in 76.5% of the cases, the father in 6.7%"

"Management of FDIA may require putting the child in foster care".

Ahhhh, the irony.

Speculation RE FDIA is a massive reach IMO. There’s no evidence of this at all. I do agree there’s evidence that could point towards FFC being an aloof, highly strung perfectionist, but nothing to imply WT had multiple hospital visits or repeated injuries/illness.

Whilst I have huge empathy and compassion for WT’s parents and would not downplay Mum’s concern that he seemed ‘thin’ and her horror at his having a black eye, it’s not unknown for parents of a child in care to express their dissatisfaction with care arrangements in such a way. They were in a very helpless situation and wanted WT returned to their care so would naturally have been critical of aspects of the alternative care. Much as FFC may have been legitimately concerned about the impact of family contact on WT’s emotional wellbeing and behaviour.

We’ve seen photos of WT, he didn’t look underweight or unhealthy and the explanation for his bruised eye was accepted by workers and treated in hospital as far as I can recall.
 
Welcome fellow lurker :D

I'm very bothered by this too. She uses verbs incorrectly in her 'recollections'.

I also noticed in the police interview that she was already talking about Williams sister growing up as an only child, while also purporting to have hope he's still alive.

In all of her statements she uses incorrect tense.

IMO only.
My first reply so I hope I'm in the right/write space!. I feel the person was speaking very much about them self and the daughter and spoke only of WT's name when prompted. It seemed the "learning to play" and "grow up as an only child" was a done deal to the FFC even when they still hoped he was alive. The FFC is all over the place in tense IMO because she is trying to be extra careful for some reason. "The lady doth protest too much" is all over this IMO.
 
I’m wondering if this was maybe Williams shoes? Could this be the sudden interest if he had bare feet or not??
If a shoe or pair of shoes/sandals was thrown out of the FFGM's car by the FFC, I think it would have been on the return trip to wherever she went, as opposed to on the way there.

Thrown out as a clue to lead the way to William's body, or in an attempt to dispose of evidence?
 
For seven years, police and media have pursued different theories and suspects, but no one has ever been charged over William Tyrrell’s disappearance.

With police conducting a new search and identifying a new person of interest, we look at how the media has covered the case and what lessons have been learnt.
Ep 42 - William Tyrrell mystery

MARK FERGUSON: He's been missing for more than seven years. Today detectives made a devastating admission — they are now looking for William Tyrrell's remains. A new search is underway on the mid-north coast, police acting on fresh evidence, hoping to finally answer the question — what happened to the little boy in the Spider-Man suit?

- Seven News (Sydney), 15 November, 2021

Hello, I’m Paul Barry, welcome to Media Watch.

And seven years after the boy in the Spider-Man suit went missing, the mysterious disappearance of three-year-old William Tyrrell was making headlines again last week. And almost everyone in the media was pulling out the same old cliche:

SANDRA SULLY: Tonight, a stunning new twist in Australia’s biggest mystery.

- Ten News First (Sydney), 16 November, 2021

ANGELA COX: Tonight, a twist in the William Tyrrell case, the same day police launch a new search for the missing boy.

- The Latest, Seven Network, 15 November, 2021

ALLISON LANGDON: … there’s been a shocking new twist in the William Tyrrell case.

- Today, Nine Network, 17 November, 2021

So, what kicked off the latest twisting frenzy? And how should the media behave in cases like this?

Tonight, we’re going to look at how New South Wales Police have used the media to put pressure on suspects since William Tyrrell went missing in September 2014.

And we’ll look at the damage that trial-by-media can do to people who are wrongly accused.

So, let’s start at the beginning, with last Monday’s press conference, where police announced that they were launching a massive new search at the house where the boy went missing:

DARREN BENNETT: … we’re anticipating two to three weeks of work. In that time there’ll be hundreds of police officers and other people engaged. There’s a number of locations and a very high-intensity search being planned.

- Sky News Australia, 15 November, 2021

That evening, with police search teams already in action, cameras and reporters from all the networks were out on the scene near Kendall State Forest:

KELLY FEDOR: … for the first time outside specialists are being brought in to help with the search. That includes an archaeologist and water expert, officers determined not to miss a single clue.

- Nine News (Sydney), 15 November, 2021

And just as desperate to miss no clues were the Sydney papers, who served up fresh titbits for their readers next morning:

TYRRELL TWIST

A SUSPECT in the disappearance of William Tyrrell has had a child removed from her custody and an AVO sought against her …

- The Daily Telegraph, 16 November, 2021

At this stage, the Tele and others weren’t identifying the so-called suspect. But if you matched that report with The Sydney Morning Herald it was obvious who was being accused:

Police seek AVO against Tyrrell’s foster parents

- The Sydney Morning Herald, 16 November, 2021

And on radio, the New South Wales Police Commissioner was narrowing it down even further by telling Ben Fordham:

MICK FULLER: … there is certainly one person in particular that we are looking closely at.

- Ben Fordham Live, 2GB, 16 November, 2021

And by next day, just about all the media were making it clear that police suspected the foster mother.

Ex-detective now criminologist Terry Goldsworthy was shocked that the media was being used to point the finger:

TERRY GOLDSWORTHY: The fact they’ve come out and said that so openly, and you’re talking about the Commissioner down saying this, I think is a deliberate strategy by them to put a lot of pressure on someone.

ALLISON LANGDON: Well, that’s it, are they trying to smoke someone out here, do you think?

TERRY GOLDSWORTHY: Yeah, look, I think they are. The media’s a very powerful investigative tool …

- Today, Nine Network, 18 November, 2021

And on 2GB, another criminologist was also taken aback:

XANTHÉ MALLET: I am quite surprised at how much information is coming out, it is quite unusual to be getting as much as we are. But obviously, strategically, the police think that this is the right way to engage …

- Drive with Jim Wilson, 2GB, 17 November, 2021

And if pressure on the suspect was what police were after, the media certainly delivered.

Although child protection laws and a suppression order make it illegal to identify the foster parents, The Sydney Morning Herald was soon knocking on their door and talking to neighbours, with one woman admitting:

“I didn’t realise that they lived so close to us …”

- The Sydney Morning Herald, 17 November, 2021

She certainly does now.

And the TV cameras had already got the foster mum walking in the street near their North Shore home.

Meanwhile, on A Current Affair, we were seeing the couple being interviewed by detectives back in 2014:

SIMON BOUDA: This footage was filmed soon after William went missing during what’s known as a walk through at the home where he was last seen alive ...

MAN: I then said to [bleep]: ‘Well, where is he, where’s he gone?’ She said: ‘He was here five minutes ago, here five minutes ago.’

- A Current Affair, Nine Network, 16 November, 2021

And soon the Tele was telling us to expect the new search would bring rapid results:

Detectives hunting for tragic little William Tyrrell believe they are close to cracking the country’s most baffling missing child case.

- The Daily Telegraph, 17 November, 2021

So, what did the police now believe had happened?

The media were privy to that too, with a genuinely shocking twist that it may have been an accident:

DID HE DIE IN A FALL

Search begins under balcony ...

- The Courier-Mail, 17 November, 2021

And a theory that the foster mother may have covered up such an accident by driving the dead child away:

Car seized in William Tyrrell investigation was 'driven by his wealthy foster MUM on the morning he vanished' …

- Daily Mail Australia, 17 November, 2021

But several stories admitted there was not enough evidence to charge the foster mother. And what the police apparently had seemed pretty thin.

Although it was enough for a Tele front-page splash about “a crucial piece of evidence”. And this double-page spread inside posing the question:

A CUTE PIC OR JUST A BARE FOOT LIE?

- The Daily Telegraph, 18 November, 2021

So, what was the crucial evidence supposedly showing the foster mother had lied to police?

She said he was wearing shoes because of the bindiis in the lawn or in case he stepped in dog droppings. It is now believed that there were no bindiis at the property and the family dog was dead.

- The Daily Telegraph, 18 November, 2021

Wow. The police will need a lot more than that to mount a case in court. Or indeed to defend a defamation action.

Even if the Tele was quick to tell readers — no doubt to please its lawyers:

The Daily Telegraph is not suggesting the foster mother is guilty, only that police are investigating.

- The Daily Telegraph, 18 November, 2021

Yeah, right.

And perhaps the police do have a real lead. But if it does all come to nothing, do not be surprised.

Because there’ve been 600 persons of interest in the Tyrrell investigation. And the media have told us regularly — and as recently as two months ago — of new twists and new suspects:

MARK FERGUSON: There’s a disturbing twist in the mystery of William Tyrrell …

- Seven News (Sydney), 27 September, 2021

ALLISON LANGDON: William Tyrrell bombshell, a fresh twist in the investigation into the missing boy.

- Today, Nine Network, 7 September, 2021

PETER MITCHELL: There’s been another twist in the William Tyrrell case …

- Seven News (Melbourne), 19 August, 2019

ROBERT OVADIA: … there have been so many twists and turns in this case over the period of seven years …

- Sunrise, Seven Network, 16 November, 2021

In fact six suspects have been named and shamed by the media in the seven-year investigation starting with a local tradesman, Bill Spedding, who had quoted to fix the washing machine on the property:

DETECTIVE MOYNIHAN: Did you take William Tyrrell?

BILL SPEDDING: No.

DETECTIVE MOYNIHAN: Do you know who took William Tyrrell?

BILL SPEDDING: No.

- Four Corners, ABC, 4 November, 2019

The police let it be known that Spedding was a person of interest. And the media soon had him as their prime suspect:

PERSON OF INTEREST

Police swab and quiz local tradie over missing boy

- The Daily Telegraph, 22 January, 2015

CRIME SEEN

Bill Spedding drives his van past the search site yesterday morning …

- The Daily Telegraph, 3 March, 2015

Spedding was in the hot seat for months as police searched his house and van, dug up his yard and drained his septic tank, with cameras there to film every move.

And the media also bailed him up in the street:

REPORTER: What do you want to say to the Tyrrell family?

- Four Corners, ABC, 4 November, 2019

In 2016, Spedding was made to look even more guilty when New South Wales Police arrested him for historic sexual assault of two young girls in Victoria in 1987 and did so in plain sight of the media, who just happened to be there.

Refused bail, Spedding was jailed for eight weeks then released to face another media scrum:

REPORTER: How was jail, Bill?

- Four Corners, ABC, 4 November, 2019

But when the historic assault case finally came to court in Ballarat, the prosecution withdrew the charges and Spedding walked free.

And all this time he had in fact had an alibi on the morning that William vanished. He was with his wife in a cafe 20 minutes away and then at a school prizegiving. That alibi was confirmed at the coronial inquest in 2019.
But by then, as he told Four Corners, his life was ruined:

BILL SPEDDING: … we've basically got to restart over again. But the thing is that the publicity was worldwide. It wasn't just New South Wales, it was Australia and worldwide. And that is damage that can never be repaired.

- Four Corner, ABC, 4 November, 2019

Bill Spedding sued The Daily Telegraph and Daily Mail for defamation and settled out of court for a substantial sum.

He’s also sued the New South Wales Police for $1 million, with the hearing scheduled to go ahead next year.

But Spedding is not the only one who’s been accused by police and media:

EVIL WEB

EXCLUSIVE

- The Daily Telegraph, 5 September, 2015

In 2015 there were two new names:

SENIORS GROUPS LINKED TO HUNT FOR WILL

Convicted paedophiles Paul Bickford (top) and Anthony Jones.

- The Daily Telegraph, 5 September, 2015

The next prime suspects belonged to a local social group called GAPA, or Grandparents as Parents Again, which the media suggested was linked to a paedophile ring:

Two paedophiles who are 'persons of interest' in the case of missing William Tyrrell may have 'met up on the day he went missing'

- Daily Mail Australia, 25 February, 2016

In early 2016, Bickford and Jones were both facing charges of indecent assault involving two different 11-year-old girls.

And when Bickford appeared in court he was naturally a target:

ASHLEA BROWN: But you are a convicted paedophile.

PAUL BICKFORD: Yeah, I am. But doesn’t mean I, we run a paedophile ring ...

ASHLEA BROWN: People think you should be living in jail.

PAUL BICKFORD: Yeah, well maybe.

- Seven News (Melbourne), 20 January, 2016

Bickford and Jones have not been charged over Tyrrell’s disappearance and are presumably no longer suspects.

Next in the media spotlight was Paul Savage, a neighbour who lived across the road, who was called as a witness in the Tyrrell inquest in 2019.

And he too got the full treatment, with this encounter on Nine’s A Current Affair:

PAUL SAVAGE: Get away with that bloody thing, mate. I don’t need your rubbish.

SIMON BOUDA: This is Paul Savage ...

Why would they ask you to come in, questioned with a lawyer, do you think?

PAUL SAVAGE: As I say, you’ll have to find that one out yourself. I don’t know myself.

- A Current Affair, Nine Network, 29 January, 2019

Savage, who is now also contemplating suing the police, was also never charged.

And the same is true of a fifth person to get the prime suspect treatment, Frank Abbott:

Six witnesses, one 'dirty old man' and a NEW person of interest: Twist in William Tyrrell case as all eyes turn to a caravan-dwelling paedophile …

- Daily Mail Australia, 5 October, 2020

Seven was still pointing the finger at Abbott only a few weeks ago:

MARK FERGUSON: A convicted paedophile who lived close by has no alibi for the day the toddler disappeared.

- Seven News (Sydney), 27 September, 2021

And Seven’s “exclusive” was this:

ASHLEA HANSEN: Now, a former friend of Abbott’s has spoken out.

FRIEND: Quite a while, about three months, he was always saying, ‘they know where I was on the Thursday, I got my pension out on the Thursday’. And after hearing that for so long I thought I’d looked the day up that he went missing and it was the Friday!

- Seven News (Sydney), 27 September, 2021

Abbott is now in jail for unrelated sex crimes, but he was never charged over Tyrrell’s disappearance.

And nor was this man, Derek Nichols, who briefly attracted the attention of The Daily Telegraph:

Perv pianist investigated


Tyrrell probe turns to child *advertiser censored* fiend

EXCLUSIVE

- The Daily Telegraph, 13 January, 2016

So, what’s the chance that the police and media’s case against the latest person of interest will also come to nought?

The foster parents have said repeatedly they had nothing to do with William’s disappearance, as they did in this interview with 60 Minutes in 2015:

FOSTER MOTHER: And I walked inside and I walked past his room, I just, I had no legs, I just collapsed. We had to go back to our house, our family, without him. It’s just, it was heart wrenching.

- 60 Minutes, Nine Network, 6 September, 2015

The journalist behind that interview was Michael Usher, who’s now at Seven.

And last week he expressed surprise that the foster mother is now a suspect:

MICHAEL USHER: I’m deeply shocked and very conflicted by what is going on, Mark. I’ve known the family for quite some years, when I did that interview with them, obviously met with them for many days and weeks beforehand, I’ve kept in contact with them …

And Mark, in the time that I’ve spent with them and kept in contact with them, they’ve only ever held the line. I’ve never seen a crack in their story — that they were determined to find who took William …

And certainly, and I've spoken to each of them individually over many years, I've never seen any different version of that story.

- Seven News (Sydney), 17 November, 2021

And more recently, the parents told Channel Ten’s podcast series ‘Where’s William Tyrrell?’, that in relation to the police investigation:

FOSTER MOTHER: We have nothing to hide, we gave them everything.

- Ten News First (Sydney), 17 November, 2021

Also casting doubt on the latest police theory was Gary Jubelin, who ran the Tyrrell investigation for four years and was sledged last week by the New South Wales Police Commissioner for leaving it in, quote, a “bit of a mess”.

On Thursday he told Ben Fordham that the foster mum was a “decent human being” and he’d seen no signs of her being involved in William’s disappearance:

GARY JUBELIN: … I basically ambushed the parents and then I interrogated the parents and I formally interviewed the parents and then released the parents with a covert operation running …

… they were again eliminated.

- Ben Fordham Live, 2GB. 18 November, 2021

So, apart from speculation, what is there for the media to go on? Not much.

But thanks to the police strategy of allowing access to the search, we’ve had plenty of material for TV, with the cops helpfully providing vision of the car once owned by Wiliam’s foster grandmother being taken away to the lab.

And live crosses to the search team for even the smallest development:

KIERAN GILBERT: Danica, there appears to be a potentially significant breakthrough happening right behind you now …

DANICA DE GIORGIO: I’m just going to show you exactly what’s going on right at the moment in the background here. What you can see is a number of officers paying particular attention to one part of the soil.

- Afternoon Agenda, Sky News Australia, 17 November, 2021

It is gripping stuff. And what did they find? Well, Ten News had all the details:

STEVE HART: A heart-stopping moment. Police found a piece of red stringy fabric. Was it part of William Tyrrell's famous Spider-Man suit he was wearing when he vanished? Officers believe this is his graveyard. Detectives compared the find to a sample suit and while not convinced either way, they bagged two pieces of the material to be sent away for further forensic testing …

- Ten News First (Sydney), 17 November, 2021

But the short-lived excitement soon faded, with suggestions the police had discounted it.

On Friday, the media claimed another breakthrough after police spent three hours draining the local creek, with the Daily Mail capturing the moment a piece of blue cloth was found and calling it a “mysterious” discovery.

And the media circus will ramp up another notch tomorrow when the foster parents appear in a Sydney court to defend a charge of common assault of a child who is not William, with Seven News warming up for the hearing last Wednesday in its prime-time bulletin:

MARK FERGUSON: Mylee Hogan is at Hornsby Court for us tonight. Mylee, when are they due to appear there?

- Seven News (Sydney), 17 November, 2021

A live cross to an empty court, six days before the foster parents are due to appear. It is absurd.

And after that, more pictures of the couple outside their family home:

REPORTER: Is there anything that you would like to say about the investigation?

- Seven News (Sydney), 17 November, 2021

No doubt, the pressure and the pursuit will continue.

But if the police turn up nothing? What then?

Criminologist Xanthé Mallett told the Herald this weekend “it’s going to be highly problematic for them” — them being the police — adding that she finds their theory “a little inconceivable” and “incredible to be honest”.

But it will also be highly problematic for the media who’ve pointed the finger at the foster mother.

Because, as Caroline Overington observed in The Weekend Australian, “half the world thinks she maybe killed the boy.”

You can expect to see some big defamation payouts if the police do not deliver.

So what should the media have done?

Put simply, be more careful and less credulous. And don’t convict anyone until the evidence is in.

Journalist Neil Mercer, a 40-year veteran of police and crime reporting, told Media Watch:

It’s very disturbing that police have singled out the foster mother, in effect saying she’s guilty of something in relation to William, with no evidence presented publicly.

- Email, Neil Mercer, Journalist, 21 November, 2021

And adding:

The Tyrrell case needs some context and a healthy dose of scepticism about what seems to have developed into some sort of NSW Police public relations campaign.

- Email, Neil Mercer, Journalist, 21 November, 2021

That is good advice, even if it is too late for the media in this case.

With the police search and forensic testing expected to go for several more weeks, stand by for a lot more speculation.
https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/tyrrell/13642850
 
I am intrigued by the FFC use of present tense when doing the walkthrough and in her later interview I saw some approx 18 months later. I posit that most people when remembering speak in the past tense. The FFC keeps coming back to "I'm seeing, I'm doing" etc. when recollecting. It seems to see IMHO to be a re-membering, a re-imagining rather than a true recall. Perhaps a manipulation by presenting the story in the present tense it is more authentic??? To put the listener into the protagnonist's narrative? That and the positive positions of words preceding the negative in the phrases just get me. ie: "I heard nothing", "we know nothing", "I saw nothing". Repeatedly.

Interesting observation. Yes, I think most of us would use the past tense. Talking in the present tense does suggest maybe watching a movie playing in the mind.
 
I just noticed, FF said he got FG the paper from town that day because she had asked him to. But in this photo she is sitting there reading the paper. Might be nothing.

I also compared it to another photo and the person in that chair is in completely different clothes.
Old newspaper, same clothes imo
 
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