Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #64

[Naobh]

We should also be aware of the level of abuse to be found in many bio families as well. Believe me, many foster children are there for valid reasons.

I find many people are in fact aware of this. The awareness of people with high status being potentially abusive isn't there. The issue of class differences, education and how well people speak, things like that... it really can impact naturally on people's perceptions because very bad people can be capable of hiding what they're really like. It's like the difference between BPD and ASPD. One has empathy, one doesn't. But the borderline may be reactive and the antisocial calculating. Times of crisis with borderlines can be very serious but often otherwise stabley unstable. Imo. I find a lot of people are snobs too.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

-----------------------------------------------------------
YES!

Not possible.
She was around 5 years of age.
She would RUN- arguably.
And scream.
And resist.
And make a massive fuss.
And perhaps she liked the new arrangement

<modsnip: No link to support information stated as fact>

Could also be, that, WT sister was left for another day? IF the 2 children had been taken AT the same time, would it not look more suspicious the BF took them? Perhaps she was harder to gain access to?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

According to 7 News the reason why the focus has shifted will be revealed in upcoming inquest hearings when it resumes:

 

[Gotta have Faith]

I don't.. but the comment was.. why didn't she take large car

Because FF had it when he went to town for script call??

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I find many people are in fact aware of this. The awareness of people with high status being potentially abusive isn't there. The issue of class differences, education and how well people speak, things like that... it really can impact naturally on people's perceptions because very bad people can be capable of hiding what they're really like. It's like the difference between BPD and ASPD. One has empathy, one doesn't. But the borderline may be reactive and the antisocial calculating. Times of crisis with borderlines can be very serious but often otherwise stabley unstable. Imo. I find a lot of people are snobs too.

Can you imagine if this happened to people from a low socio economic demographic with the first image released the one of William with the black eye? Nobody including police would be looking for a random kidnapper, all eyes would have been on the FF IMO. Cars would have been seized on the day and forensically examined, house and yard taped off shortly after police arrived, phones seized then and there and FF would not have been allowed to search.

 

[Ozgal]

The cops did take the Fosterers phones and computers. With the phones, couldn't the investigators see exactly where she had been on the day WT went missing?

Maybe they didn't have all their phone's. Media love to leak at times IMO

'She's a very decent human being': Former detective Gary Jubelin stands up for foster mother - 2GB

 

[JBowie]

So in my experience 3 year olds can travel a large distance.

Oh yes, and in a short time too if they are running. I think many of us will have experienced trying to catch a runaway kid.

And as I have mentioned elsewhere, how many times do we hear adults say -- in relation to a kid who has fallen into a swimming pool or a dam -- "I only turned my back for a minute".

 

[JayWill]

Can you imagine if this happened to people from a low socio economic demographic with the first image released the one of William with the black eye? Nobody including police would be looking for a random kidnapper, all eyes would have been on the FF IMO. Cars would have been seized on the day and forensically examined, house and yard taped off shortly after police arrived, phones seized then and there and FF would not have been allowed to search.

Yes, IMO it has be obvious to all from the beginning of this case. I am not accusing them of anything but they should have been thoroughly investigated before anything else IMO.

 

[centred]

According to 7 News the reason why the focus has shifted will be revealed in upcoming inquest hearings when it resumes:

yes it is and has been obvious we will not hear anything found or why the search was resumed and continues is because of the coroner and her questions , I have never expected other wise .

 

[JBowie]

Of course!
But moving children from one bad situation to another bad or worse situation is horrific.

Indeed, but foster parents are checked out pretty carefully before being deemed eligible.

However, the fostering experience can be very challenging (have described that earlier in relation to foster parents that I know).

I gather that DOCS/FACS keeps tabs on how things are going -- at least in the initial stages.

 

[Edgar70]

This bit has always troubled me a little, if your child has gone missing, and in the early stages of panic increasing while looking initially, wouldnt your first call be to your husband who has been out be something along the lines of... "hey I know you arent due home until 1030am, but you by chance didnt come home early and pick WT up and go back out did you? He was playing on the patio and we havent heard him, just want to make sure he isnt with you.."

Granted I know we all behave differently under stressful situations, but given the clarity of head presented in the 000 call, it would seem logical that a step such as this should have taken place...husband conference call or not...

I agree. I would have expected one of the FM's first actions would have been to call the FF to tell him William was missing and ask for help.

This is even stranger for me given that he was in the local area, as compared to a further distance away.

When a child is missing, every action taken is time critical to FIND THEM SAFE AND UNHARMED.

We expect people's EGO's to be pushed to the side during this time.

When EVERY MINUTE COUNTS, do we hear statements indicating a lack of urgency?

IMOO

 

[iiiii's]

So would the drive have taken place after the 000 call but before police arrived do you think?

I don't believe so because the drive was mentioned at the coronial inquest in amongst the things the FFC did, prior to her huband returning or her making 1st contact with AMS. None of the FFC's testimony included the drive after meeting AMS, all that time is accounted for on foot until the police arrive. I also believe it was before the MFC returned because she took the FGM's car to search. MOO

What I get from all the interviews I have heard and the testimony of FFC is that she knows many of the things she did but seems hazy on the order in some sections,i.e. when WT went missing and the car drive and when she went to the neighbors before or after the MFC arrived home. As frustrating as it is,besides seeing it as deceptive, could we accept the possibility that she just doesn't remember and so won't make something up to make it fit?

There are differences in her statement and AMS statement. It doesn't mean the FFC is wrong or lying.....MOO

 

[lrb66]

* William's foster mother made cups of tea before snapping the now iconic photo of the three-year-old boy sitting on the deck dressed as Spider-Man at 9.37am.

Yes if we are expected to take FM timeline verbatim then how is the tea still warm after 11 am . No wonder it was tested in the coroners court . IMO we cannot and LE should not depend on one persons story . Also I noted in MFC walk through he describes himself going here and there and he is adept at scouts etc (paraphrasing ) and spent 90 minutes searching previous before he saw his partner talking to neighbors and saw little of anyone else during this 90 minutes .
He is asked specific questions by LE.

I take statements with the grain of salt when they cannot be verified by someone else and IMO that is why the coroner is not yet satisfied .

Hi, this is my first post
Re proof of life photo- the tiger roar
I have noticed 2 things
It is possible to tell the time by objects and shadows created if you know the date of the photo taken. It involves geometry and other astronomy calculations (which no doubt experts could do)
There are several objects in that photo casting shadows
Also if you look to the rear of the photo is it my imagination or is the rear balcony door open?

 

[Jaded325594]

Indeed, but foster parents are checked out pretty carefully before being deemed eligible.

However, the fostering experience can be very challenging (have described that earlier in relation to foster parents that I know).

I gather that DOCS/FACS keeps tabs on how things are going -- at least in the initial stages.

They do, but it can be difficult to keep tabs when you're dealing with vulnerable children, potential threats, grooming etc. Some kids won't disclose for years after abuse. Also, not having a record doesn't mean you're not abusive, just that you haven't been charged.

I personally know of a case where a child was removed from a single mum. Mental illness, no neglect, abuse or domestic violence but certainly lived an alternative lifestyle.

Child went to foster care for years until mum eventually won legal battle to have child returned.

Child was sexually abused by male foster carer with female foster carers knowledge and consent.

Child did not disclose until adulthood.

Foster carers had multiple other children in care after the first including non-verbal girl.

As far as im aware they could still be registered carers as police never prosecuted.

 

[JBowie]

Can you imagine if this happened to people from a low socio economic demographic with the first image released the one of William with the black eye? Nobody including police would be looking for a random kidnapper, all eyes would have been on the FF IMO. Cars would have been seized on the day and forensically examined, house and yard taped off shortly after police arrived, phones seized then and there and FF would not have been allowed to search.

Yes, it seems that the critical first 48 hours or more in this case were spent 'looking over there' rather than perhaps forensically 'looking here'.

IMO the whole process needs to be reviewed, and not only by the police themselves.

 

[Jaded325594]

Can you imagine if this happened to people from a low socio economic demographic with the first image released the one of William with the black eye? Nobody including police would be looking for a random kidnapper, all eyes would have been on the FF IMO. Cars would have been seized on the day and forensically examined, house and yard taped off shortly after police arrived, phones seized then and there and FF would not have been allowed to search.

Yes i think this played a big part. Hopefully there's been a some lessons learned from this.

 

[Couldbe]

When describing time-frames, the FCs seem to think in terms of 5 minutes intervals: e.g MFC uses the term 'home in five'; FFC uses the term '5 mins ago' on a number of occasions....when describing when she last saw William.
This may cause problems for them...... when they try to actually estimate how many minutes have actually elapsed.
FFC has certainly displayed she has a problem with recounting time-frames.

There are people who are always late for events. They have been consistently unable to be on-time throughout their lives!

 

[Awakening]

This is speculation and hearsay.

I'm friends with 2 foster families (1 in VIC, 1 in QLD).

My sibling worked in child protection for years (WA) and I have a friend working in child protection (VIC).

They've all commented that they find reports of WTs possible adoption as unusual to them.

Because apparently adoption is extremely unusual and complicated and it's easier to do a long term placement.

Some people come into fostering because they think they will ultimately adopt a child and they are quickly told it's highly unlikely.

Adoption is even more unlikely of there is a bio parent or bio grandparent. The child doesn't even have to have contact with a bio parent to still make adoption difficult.

So this situation where WT still had contact with at least 3 members of his bio family, his young age, where he had not been abused by a bio parent and where bio family still wanted him is baffling to them because in their states this would never go down the adoption path.

If nothing else I think the foster system needs a review. I'm wondering are wealthy parents able to unduly influence the system or have there been misrepresentations to vulnerable childless people being told they can adopt when it's likely never to happen because that's cruel too.

I have another friend who has 4 bio kids and 2 adopted kids. They went overseas to adopt because adoption in Australia is virtually non existent. But even overseas adoption is very difficult. Overseas adoptions are often handled by religious organisations who tend to look for people who are: under 40, married, heterosexual, no divorcée's. There are different criteria for different countries and some may have more flexibility.

 

[JBowie]

Hi, this is my first post
Re proof of life photo- the tiger roar
I have noticed 2 things
It is possible to tell the time by objects and shadows created if you know the date of the photo taken. It involves geometry and other astronomy calculations (which no doubt experts could do)
There are several objects in that photo casting shadows
Also if you look to the rear of the photo is it my imagination or is the rear balcony door open?

My main problem with that 'iconic' photo is where William is looking, which is not at the camera.

The FM's complicated explanation of that has never satisfied me.

Most people taking such individual portrait type pics of their kids want the kid to be facing the camera and will re-shoot the pic if the kid looks away.

If she were squatting down at his level then IMO something/someone has caused him to look up, away from the camera lens.

 

[JayWill]

When describing time-frames, the FCs seem to think in terms of 5 minutes intervals: e.g MFC uses the term 'home in five'; FFC uses the term '5 mins ago' on a number of occasions....when describing when she last saw William.
This may cause problems for them...... when they try to actually estimate how many minutes have actually elapsed.
FFC has certainly displayed she has a problem with recounting time-frames.

There are people who are always late for events. They have been consistently unable to be on-time throughout their lives!

I have a friend like that, but I don't think that she has any problem with time passing. IMO it is a lack of consideration for other people.