Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #75

[SouthAussie]

Someone will remember this argument in a few months and be positive that blood was found in FGM's car because we talked about how it got there.

Yep. I was thinking the same about the comment earlier that "William had never been in FGM's car". Something which I have not seen or heard in MSM. Though I did ask for the link, so I will wait and see if that is forthcoming.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO - An explanation of how FM might have removed William’s body from 48 Benaroon:-

If William’s body had been placed in a handy nearby garbage/garden waste bag and then transferred into the boot of the Mazda, any evidence of that having occurred might have to be discovered by Police later:

…. Perhaps by using a method of examining and comparing photos taken at the crime scene.
i.e. garbage bags viewed in some of the photos could have been discovered to be absent from the property altogether….. leaving it to be explained where had that missing garbage gone? MOO

Edited to add 'garden waste' to description of the bag.

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO - An explanation of how FM might have removed William’s body from 48 Benaroon:-

If William’s body had been placed in a handy nearby garbage/garden waste bag and then transferred into the boot of the Mazda, any evidence of that having occurred might have to be discovered by Police later:

…. Perhaps by using a method of examining and comparing photos taken at the crime scene.
i.e. garbage bags viewed in some of the photos could have been discovered to be absent from the property altogether….. leaving it to be explained where had that missing garbage gone? MOO

Edited to add 'garden waste' to description of the bag.

So, FM removed William right under the police noses? And drove to Batar Creek Road?
Rubbish bags were there in some photos that the police took, then they weren't there in other photos that the police took?

 

[LolaAngelina]

The point is that dead bodies leak. There may be characteristic combinations of leaked fluids that suggest a fresh corpse.

Not immediately they don’t. Decomposition takes days. If we go by the police theory he was put in the car immediately after death none of those fluids would be present.

24-72 hours - the internal organs decompose

3-5 days - the body starts to bloat and blood containing foam leaks from the mouth and nose

The Stages Of Human Decomposition | Aftermath Services

Explore the journey through the four stages of human decomposition. From initial decay to skeletal remains, uncover the science behind the natural process of decomposition.

www.aftermath.com

 

[Couldbe]

So, FM removed William right under the police noses? And drove to Batar Creek Road?
Rubbish bags were there in some photos that the police took, then they weren't there in other photos that the police took?

Not impossible

 

[LolaAngelina]

Someone will remember this argument in a few months and be positive that blood was found in FGM's car because we talked about how it got there.

Yep no doubt!

 

[JLZ]

Not immediately they don’t. Decomposition takes days. If we go by the police theory he was put in the car immediately after death none of those fluids would be present.

24-72 hours - the internal organs decompose

3-5 days - the body starts to bloat and blood containing foam leaks from the mouth and nose

The Stages Of Human Decomposition | Aftermath Services

Explore the journey through the four stages of human decomposition. From initial decay to skeletal remains, uncover the science behind the natural process of decomposition.

www.aftermath.com

I'm not talking about decomposition, but immediate leakage as continence muscles cease working.

 

[LolaAngelina]

I'm not talking about decomposition, but immediate leakage as continence muscles cease working.

Like urine? That’s not an indicator of death though. I think they could be explained away when a 3yo is involved

 

[JLZ]

JMO - An explanation of how FM might have removed William’s body from 48 Benaroon:-

If William’s body had been placed in a handy nearby garbage/garden waste bag and then transferred into the boot of the Mazda, any evidence of that having occurred might have to be discovered by Police later:

…. Perhaps by using a method of examining and comparing photos taken at the crime scene.
i.e. garbage bags viewed in some of the photos could have been discovered to be absent from the property altogether….. leaving it to be explained where had that missing garbage gone? MOO

Edited to add 'garden waste' to description of the bag.

I was thinking about the pullups, whether some extras were used after William's death and brought back and put with the others, and then there were perhaps excessive explanations accounting for them all.

 

[Burtrito]

Off topic, sort of… I can’t find any examples of where a parent has covered up accidental death… other than maybe Kyesha Abrahams. Which I might argue was not exactly accidental in the sense that she did suffer abuse leading to her death. Is there any examples, anywhere of an accidental death that has occurred and a parent has covered it up?

 

[Dannywood]

BBM Yes the blood obviously leaves the body when the person is alive. If someone is killed in a home and blood is left there and then the person puts them in a car and blood transfers, there is no test that can say the blood in the home is from an alive person and the blood in the car is from a dead person.

It's not obvious. Blood can and does leave a body after someone is already deceased and as someone is dying there's changes in their pathology.

And there's several ways to test it. For one, the pH in blood immediately changes upon death. Blood also changes colour after death. Coagulation is different in blood after death.

Decomposition starts instantly upon death. Maybe you're confusing decomposition with putrefaction. Putrefaction takes days, but that's the last stage of the decomposition process.

Biochemistry Changes That Occur after Death: Potential Markers for Determining Post-Mortem Interval

Death is likely to result in very extensive biochemical changes in all body tissues due to lack of circulating oxygen, altered enzymatic reactions, cellular degradation, and cessation of anabolic production of metabolites. These biochemical changes may ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Most people expel urine and saliva and defecate immediately upon death. They wouldn't just be looking for blood. They'd be looking for any tissue with Williams DNA, IMO

 

[JLZ]

Most people expel urine and saliva and defecate immediately upon death. They wouldn't just be looking for blood. They'd be looking for any tissue with Williams DNA, IMO

That's about what I'm saying. Maybe you're confusing me with Lola. Anyway I'm out of this particular topic. Poor baby.

 

[Dannywood]

Off topic, sort of… I can’t find any examples of where a parent has covered up accidental death… other than maybe Kyesha Abrahams. Which I might argue was not exactly accidental in the sense that she did suffer abuse leading to her death. Is there any examples, anywhere of an accidental death that has occurred and a parent has covered it up?

She wasn't a parent, she was a foster carer. Maybe search for cases where a foster carer covered up a death.

That's about what I'm saying. Maybe you're confusing me with Lola. Anyway I'm out of this particular topic. Poor baby.

Sorry I misquoted. Yes, poor baby indeed.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Yep. I was thinking the same about the comment earlier that "William had never been in FGM's car". Something which I have not seen or heard in MSM. Though I did ask for the link, so I will wait and see if that is forthcoming.

I have tried to search for this. But the keywords I'm using bring up too many things. Also as I said was to correct me if I'm wrong, not that it was a certainty.

 

[Burtrito]

She wasn't a parent, she was a foster carer. Maybe search for cases where a foster carer covered up a death.


Sorry I misquoted. Yes, poor baby indeed.

Plenty of accidental deaths but no cover ups that I can find.

 

[Dannywood]

So, FM removed William right under the police noses? And drove to Batar Creek Road?
Rubbish bags were there in some photos that the police took, then they weren't there in other photos that the police took?

Probably not but it's still far more plausible than a random child abducter happened to be lurking in a dead end street in a town with a micro population at the exact time a foster carer was not supervising the foster child.

Anything is more plausible than that. JMO

 

[LolaAngelina]

It's not obvious. Blood can and does leave a body after someone is already deceased and as someone is dying there's changes in their pathology.

And there's several ways to test it. For one, the pH in blood immediately changes upon death. Blood also changes colour after death. Coagulation is different in blood after death.

Decomposition starts instantly upon death. Maybe you're confusing decomposition with putrefaction. Putrefaction takes days, but that's the last stage of the decomposition process.

Biochemistry Changes That Occur after Death: Potential Markers for Determining Post-Mortem Interval

Death is likely to result in very extensive biochemical changes in all body tissues due to lack of circulating oxygen, altered enzymatic reactions, cellular degradation, and cessation of anabolic production of metabolites. These biochemical changes may ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Most people expel urine and saliva and defecate immediately upon death. They wouldn't just be looking for blood. They'd be looking for any tissue with Williams DNA, IMO

The heart stops pumping when someone dies, hence you only actively bleed when you are alive. Blood of course can drip off or pool somewhere after death. I’m not sure you’re understanding the original conversation l was having with someone else. The discussion being - if blood is found (small drops possibly) can it be tested and determined whether a person was alive or dead? The answer is no it cannot. Again only an alive person actively bleeds so it’s just science that tells us that blood came from someone who was alive at that time. Again, traces of either urine, saliva etc does not determine someone died. The only thing that could prove that would be a large amount of Williams blood or the fluids the body expels days to weeks after death. Either way we are getting so far down this hypothetical road! We don’t know anything was found in the car let Williams blood.

 

[sleepinoz]

Surely if William was bleeding when he allegedly died from an accident, blood would have been found on the property, not just in the car.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Off topic, sort of… I can’t find any examples of where a parent has covered up accidental death… other than maybe Kyesha Abrahams. Which I might argue was not exactly accidental in the sense that she did suffer abuse leading to her death. Is there any examples, anywhere of an accidental death that has occurred and a parent has covered it up?

Casey Anthony possibly since cause of death wasn’t proven. Her defence team argued successfully that Caylee drowned when unsupervised then the body was dumped in the woods. Still it’s hard to know what actually happened, it was possibly a murder she avoided responsibility for.

 

[drsleuth]

Probably not but it's still far more plausible than a random child abducter happened to be lurking in a dead end street in a town with a micro population at the exact time a foster carer was not supervising the foster child.

Anything is more plausible than that. JMO

Maybe it was not a "random" abducter & maybe they / them weren't just lurking , but watching ( maybe from the Miller's house ) & saw an opportunity? Who knows what the FGM may have told people about the FF visiting? It was known in the community that she had grandchildren / foster grand children ( eg from the xmas party they had in the street prior ).

In my eyes, the FFC coming across a dead William & the shock you would be in ( police are alleging an accident & than cover up, not murder ) , than to immediately hatching a plan to dispose of him (unbeknown to the FFG & W's sister) , coming back , searching , calling cops & than go retrieve William from where she put him some days later & re-locate him , all while the place was crawling with cops, SES & everyone else searching & him never to be found?.......seems implausible to me IMO

She'd surely win any game of hide -n -seek..............if true