Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #78

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How is it that the foster grandmother never heard her own car?
This, I don’t understand either… We can only hope it is mentioned in the Police notes (Rowley’s notes perhaps ???) Or that they at least questioned FGM about it????

I'm sorry -- no one tears off in a car after a missing child without screaming instructions to adults on site. Call the police. Call the male caregiver. Look everywhere. Call me if you find him.
Yes agree normal response …
If that drive were legit, there's no reason to keep it a secret.

Agree… I have wondered if Police asked FM not to mention it for some strategic reason ??? But it does seem really odd … perhaps the drive was “blanked out” from her memory????

At least FM did mention it in the Walkthru … on the Thursday… but we don’t know if was prompted by a question by Det Partridge ??? or just spontaneous ???

Also, how far away was the site where the truck driver encountered her? Is it possible she went up one way and down another from the house, not in search of Wm but in search of a place to conceal his body? Body here, shoes there...

Yes agree .. it would be interesting to know this, and if the “new witness“ that has allegedly come forward, is referencing the same spot on Batar Creek Road, as the original truck driver, or not??? (Riding School area or beyond…????? )

IMO
 
That’s why I wondered if his son was in foster care and that’s the reason for the confidentiality.
A really good question…. The Child’s mother died in 1991, and suffered with alcohol addition prior…… See article below …

Good point… I don‘t know the answer to the fostering question …
Quite possible, especially if FA’s wife was deceased ????

IMO

FA‘s wife was deceased in 1991…
Also note that FA’s sister in law was a “Jones”…..


From an archived Library Article

MAN FOR TRIAL OVER GIRL'S KILLING IN 1968

November 27, 1991 | Sydney Morning Herald, The (Australia)

Author/Byline: COL ALLISON | Page: 10 | Section: News and Features

697 Words



Frank Abbott, the man charged with the murder of a teenage Windsor girl in 1968, allegedly laughed after forcibly driving his alcoholic wife and her friend to bushland at East Kurrajong and showing them where he killed the girl, Westmead Local Court heard yesterday.

Abbott, 50, of Taree, was yesterday committed for trial in the Supreme Court at a date to be fixed.

The magistrate, Mr John Hiatt, said the strength of the prosecution case was such that a jury could find beyond reasonable doubt that Abbott had taken his 17-year old victim, Helen Mary Harrison, into the bush on March 16, 1968, and strangled her.

He accepted the evidence of the Director of Public Prosecutions's key witness, a prison informer known only as "Mr X", that Abbott had tried to implicate him in the murder by forcing him at gunpoint to dispose of a Holden utility Abbott said he used to abduct the girl before raping and killing her.

Mr X made contact with police in May last year, 22 years since Abbott allegedly confessed to him.

This resulted in the reopening of the case.

Mr X told the court he had been terrified of Abbott all this time, following death threats.

Mrs Sheryl Anne Spencer, 36, a friend of Abbott's late wife Katrina, who died two weeks ago from a burst ulcer, said the defendant took her and Katrina- whom he kept bashing during the ride - to the bush site.

There he had bragged about the killing, "talking as if it was a big joke, saying how he had scruffed the girl, you know raped her, saying he had satisfied his needs with her".

Mrs Spencer said Abbott told them he had tried to date Helen Harrison at the produce shop in which she worked at Pitt Town but she had refused.

He said he picked her up during a wild storm as she rode her bicycle towards home after work one day and started talking to her "but she was frigid".

Abbott allegedly boasted to his wife and her friend how the girl had not stopped screaming while being driven away from her home into the bush, where he grabbed her by the throat and strangled her.

Mrs Spencer told the court Abbott said he had sex with the girl before killing her and again when she was dead.

"I thought he must be sick in the head," she said.

A few days later Frank Abbott told her Penrith police tried to charge him with the murder, "but they couldn't make it stick and he just started laughing about it".

Abbott's sister-in-law, Christine Mary Jones, said Abbott had lured her into his car in 1972.

When she refused his amorous advances near an aunt's home and started crying and pleading to be let go, Abbott pulled out a knife and told her to shut up, saying: "You're like that other stupid , I took her out to the bush and I soon shut her up."

Terrified and hysterical after having been badly beaten that day by her de facto husband, she pleaded to be allowed to go home to attend to her young baby.

But Abbott took her into the bush and at knife-point during a night-long ordeal, savagely raped her four times against further protests that she was having her period.

Mrs Jones told the court she had not reported the rape for fear of reprisal from Abbott who had threatened to run her down in his car if she talked to anyone.

Abbott's counsel, Mr Michael Kidd, of the Aboriginal Legal Service, in his summation, dismissed the evidence of the two women as "axe grinders".

He queried the credibility of the secret police witness, Mr X, a man who had admitted to living a life of dishonesty.

He said Mr X's evidence was a total fabrication aimed at gaining prison remission.

Mr Kidd concluded by saying: "Even if someone goes around bragging of murder that doesn't mean he actually did it.

"Abbott is no more than a victim of the prison system ... one who stands over people to get his way, but that doesn't make him a murderer."

Caption: Illus: The parents of Helen Harrison, Claude and Mary Harrison, outside the Westmead Local Court yesterday.


IMO
 
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IIRC and understood the 7 Doco correctly …. FA’s son’s inquest was sealed by coroner Harriet Graham ….

His son’s name was Darren …

IMO
Yes, the Coroner that sealed FA’s son‘s inquest findings, was Harriet Grahame …
I have found the link…

The NSW coroner investigating William's disappearance has sealed the file, citing confidentiality of the police investigation. The revelation was made during Sunday night's episode of The Disappearance of William Tyrrell on the Seven Network."
 
It would be an interesting coincidence if he did have a child in foster care.

Had he heard that FGM had foster grandchildren and was curious about them.

Did he go that morning to see where he could hide out and observe only to see the family had already arrived?

Perhaps he watched and felt WT was neglected, or verbally abused or harshly punished and that triggered him into taking WT?

I believe his son was around the same age as WT when he died so maybe FA thought he was saving him from the foster care system?

Pure speculation only.
 
It would be an interesting coincidence if he did have a child in foster care.

Had he heard that FGM had foster grandchildren and was curious about them.

Did he go that morning to see where he could hide out and observe only to see the family had already arrived?

Perhaps he watched and felt WT was neglected, or verbally abused or harshly punished and that triggered him into taking WT?

I believe his son was around the same age as WT when he died so maybe FA thought he was saving him from the foster care system?

Pure speculation only.

I have to doubt that FA has a care in the world about how any child is treated.
I have a feeling he has been abusing children for a long, long time. And has been in and out of prison for a long, long time.

This is from 1991:

Abbott, who is in custody on another matter, is facing a committal hearing, charged with killing the teenager whose body was found in a shallow bush grave at East Kurrajong on March 23, 1968. She was naked from the waist down. Her shorts, underwear, sandals, watch, $23 and bicycle were missing. Because of the body's advanced decomposition, no cause of death was established. Police allege Abbott raped the girl before battering her to death.

 
"Steve" from the Ch7 doco said FA would have had RP's car for the day (while RP was having treatment), that he would have been in Benaroon Drive for petty theft, and that he is "100% sure" that FA took little William.

One of the (hotly contested) cars that FM saw parked in the street was very much like RP's car. The white station wagon.

imo (because the doco is no longer available to link)
 
A really good question…. The Child’s mother died in 1991, and suffered with alcohol addition prior…… See article below …



FA‘s wife was deceased in 1991…
Also note that FA’s sister in law was a “Jones”…..

Interesting that his wife died in early Nov 1991 and FA was in custody in late Nov 1991. I wonder if he was in custody on suspicion about the death of his 3 year old son?

imo
 
It would be an interesting coincidence if he did have a child in foster care.

Had he heard that FGM had foster grandchildren and was curious about them.

Did he go that morning to see where he could hide out and observe only to see the family had already arrived?

Perhaps he watched and felt WT was neglected, or verbally abused or harshly punished and that triggered him into taking WT?

I believe his son was around the same age as WT when he died so maybe FA thought he was saving him from the foster care system?

Pure speculation only.

BBM : He's spent a life of abusing children, women & dogs.

He's full of fear & intimidation , which is his "power" IMO

A vile creature thru & thru.

I'm sure he'll make an appearance at the next tranche of the inquest, seeing he was at the directions hearing.
 
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And there was the murder of Margaret Cox...where FA was seen covered in scratches around the same time as she was found .....




In 1996, three days after Ms Cox went missing, the Northams dropped into Johns River and noticed Abbott sporting large scratches on his arm.
"(My husband) said 'What happened to your arm?' and Frank just said 'Oysters'," Mrs Northam told the NSW Coroners Court.
"But they didn't look like oyster scratches to me.
"They're more than just random scratches. These were more probably seven or eight marks on the arm, more like finger marks ... (something) had gouged skin out."
In a police statement tendered at the inquest, Mrs Northam describes the "gouge marks" as "long and straight" and looking "a few days old as they had a kind of feisty look that wounds get before they start to heal".
She told the inquest Abbott never said he had anything to do with Ms Cox's death.
 
A really good question…. The Child’s mother died in 1991, and suffered with alcohol addition prior…… See article below …



FA‘s wife was deceased in 1991…
Also note that FA’s sister in law was a “Jones”…..


From an archived Library Article

MAN FOR TRIAL OVER GIRL'S KILLING IN 1968

November 27, 1991 | Sydney Morning Herald, The (Australia)

Author/Byline: COL ALLISON | Page: 10 | Section: News and Features

697 Words



Frank Abbott, the man charged with the murder of a teenage Windsor girl in 1968, allegedly laughed after forcibly driving his alcoholic wife and her friend to bushland at East Kurrajong and showing them where he killed the girl, Westmead Local Court heard yesterday.

Abbott, 50, of Taree, was yesterday committed for trial in the Supreme Court at a date to be fixed.

The magistrate, Mr John Hiatt, said the strength of the prosecution case was such that a jury could find beyond reasonable doubt that Abbott had taken his 17-year old victim, Helen Mary Harrison, into the bush on March 16, 1968, and strangled her.

He accepted the evidence of the Director of Public Prosecutions's key witness, a prison informer known only as "Mr X", that Abbott had tried to implicate him in the murder by forcing him at gunpoint to dispose of a Holden utility Abbott said he used to abduct the girl before raping and killing her.

Mr X made contact with police in May last year, 22 years since Abbott allegedly confessed to him.

This resulted in the reopening of the case.

Mr X told the court he had been terrified of Abbott all this time, following death threats.

Mrs Sheryl Anne Spencer, 36, a friend of Abbott's late wife Katrina, who died two weeks ago from a burst ulcer, said the defendant took her and Katrina- whom he kept bashing during the ride - to the bush site.

There he had bragged about the killing, "talking as if it was a big joke, saying how he had scruffed the girl, you know raped her, saying he had satisfied his needs with her".

Mrs Spencer said Abbott told them he had tried to date Helen Harrison at the produce shop in which she worked at Pitt Town but she had refused.

He said he picked her up during a wild storm as she rode her bicycle towards home after work one day and started talking to her "but she was frigid".

Abbott allegedly boasted to his wife and her friend how the girl had not stopped screaming while being driven away from her home into the bush, where he grabbed her by the throat and strangled her.

Mrs Spencer told the court Abbott said he had sex with the girl before killing her and again when she was dead.

"I thought he must be sick in the head," she said.

A few days later Frank Abbott told her Penrith police tried to charge him with the murder, "but they couldn't make it stick and he just started laughing about it".

Abbott's sister-in-law, Christine Mary Jones, said Abbott had lured her into his car in 1972.

When she refused his amorous advances near an aunt's home and started crying and pleading to be let go, Abbott pulled out a knife and told her to shut up, saying: "You're like that other stupid , I took her out to the bush and I soon shut her up."

Terrified and hysterical after having been badly beaten that day by her de facto husband, she pleaded to be allowed to go home to attend to her young baby.

But Abbott took her into the bush and at knife-point during a night-long ordeal, savagely raped her four times against further protests that she was having her period.

Mrs Jones told the court she had not reported the rape for fear of reprisal from Abbott who had threatened to run her down in his car if she talked to anyone.

Abbott's counsel, Mr Michael Kidd, of the Aboriginal Legal Service, in his summation, dismissed the evidence of the two women as "axe grinders".

He queried the credibility of the secret police witness, Mr X, a man who had admitted to living a life of dishonesty.

He said Mr X's evidence was a total fabrication aimed at gaining prison remission.

Mr Kidd concluded by saying: "Even if someone goes around bragging of murder that doesn't mean he actually did it.

"Abbott is no more than a victim of the prison system ... one who stands over people to get his way, but that doesn't make him a murderer."

Caption: Illus: The parents of Helen Harrison, Claude and Mary Harrison, outside the Westmead Local Court yesterday.


IMO
A really good question…. The Child’s mother died in 1991, and suffered with alcohol addition prior…… See article below …



FA‘s wife was deceased in 1991…
Also note that FA’s sister in law was a “Jones”…..


From an archived Library Article

MAN FOR TRIAL OVER GIRL'S KILLING IN 1968

November 27, 1991 | Sydney Morning Herald, The (Australia)

Author/Byline: COL ALLISON | Page: 10 | Section: News and Features

697 Words



Frank Abbott, the man charged with the murder of a teenage Windsor girl in 1968, allegedly laughed after forcibly driving his alcoholic wife and her friend to bushland at East Kurrajong and showing them where he killed the girl, Westmead Local Court heard yesterday.

Abbott, 50, of Taree, was yesterday committed for trial in the Supreme Court at a date to be fixed.

The magistrate, Mr John Hiatt, said the strength of the prosecution case was such that a jury could find beyond reasonable doubt that Abbott had taken his 17-year old victim, Helen Mary Harrison, into the bush on March 16, 1968, and strangled her.

He accepted the evidence of the Director of Public Prosecutions's key witness, a prison informer known only as "Mr X", that Abbott had tried to implicate him in the murder by forcing him at gunpoint to dispose of a Holden utility Abbott said he used to abduct the girl before raping and killing her.

Mr X made contact with police in May last year, 22 years since Abbott allegedly confessed to him.

This resulted in the reopening of the case.

Mr X told the court he had been terrified of Abbott all this time, following death threats.

Mrs Sheryl Anne Spencer, 36, a friend of Abbott's late wife Katrina, who died two weeks ago from a burst ulcer, said the defendant took her and Katrina- whom he kept bashing during the ride - to the bush site.

There he had bragged about the killing, "talking as if it was a big joke, saying how he had scruffed the girl, you know raped her, saying he had satisfied his needs with her".

Mrs Spencer said Abbott told them he had tried to date Helen Harrison at the produce shop in which she worked at Pitt Town but she had refused.

He said he picked her up during a wild storm as she rode her bicycle towards home after work one day and started talking to her "but she was frigid".

Abbott allegedly boasted to his wife and her friend how the girl had not stopped screaming while being driven away from her home into the bush, where he grabbed her by the throat and strangled her.

Mrs Spencer told the court Abbott said he had sex with the girl before killing her and again when she was dead.

"I thought he must be sick in the head," she said.

A few days later Frank Abbott told her Penrith police tried to charge him with the murder, "but they couldn't make it stick and he just started laughing about it".

Abbott's sister-in-law, Christine Mary Jones, said Abbott had lured her into his car in 1972.

When she refused his amorous advances near an aunt's home and started crying and pleading to be let go, Abbott pulled out a knife and told her to shut up, saying: "You're like that other stupid , I took her out to the bush and I soon shut her up."

Terrified and hysterical after having been badly beaten that day by her de facto husband, she pleaded to be allowed to go home to attend to her young baby.

But Abbott took her into the bush and at knife-point during a night-long ordeal, savagely raped her four times against further protests that she was having her period.

Mrs Jones told the court she had not reported the rape for fear of reprisal from Abbott who had threatened to run her down in his car if she talked to anyone.

Abbott's counsel, Mr Michael Kidd, of the Aboriginal Legal Service, in his summation, dismissed the evidence of the two women as "axe grinders".

He queried the credibility of the secret police witness, Mr X, a man who had admitted to living a life of dishonesty.

He said Mr X's evidence was a total fabrication aimed at gaining prison remission.

Mr Kidd concluded by saying: "Even if someone goes around bragging of murder that doesn't mean he actually did it.

"Abbott is no more than a victim of the prison system ... one who stands over people to get his way, but that doesn't make him a murderer."

Caption: Illus: The parents of Helen Harrison, Claude and Mary Harrison, outside the Westmead Local Court yesterday.


IMO
JMO - With Frank Abbott having such a history, I wonder why he wasn't investigated more thoroughly in the early stages (William's dna in FA's vehicle, abode, etc)!
So much attention was directed at other possibilities.
 
IIRC and understood the 7 Doco correctly …. FA’s son’s inquest was sealed by coroner Harriet Graham ….

His son’s name was Darren …

IMO
Fa changed his name, before his name was Abbott. (I have forgotten the old name.) Do we know, when he changed it? Did his son get the old or the new name, Idk.
 
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BBM : He's spent a life of abusing children, women & dogs.

He's full of fear & intimidation , which is his "power" IMO

A vile creature thru & thru.

I'm sure he'll make an appearance at the next tranche of the inquest, seeing he was at the directions hearing.

I don’t think he cares about children, but wondered if in his warped mind he was triggered to take WT. Initially told himself he was doing the right thing removing him but then can only imagine where it might have gone from there.

Obviously just speculation. But FA is horrible, there’s so many red flags, coincidences and nothing in the public domain about how he has been ruled out as a POI.

Maybe he had a hatred for foster parents and is happy the heat is on them. Or, as some members have suggested FM moved him on to a nefarious person like FA.

I have no idea what’s happened, and unlike most on here I haven’t formed a view either way on who is responsible.
 
I don't think FA cares anything at all about foster children, non-foster children, women, animals.
His only trigger would be what he wanted to do. imo

Even his male associates (RP, Mr X) were scared of him.

Mr Parish said he was fearful of Abbott after hearing him brag he had twice beaten a murder charge and that "I'd go to jail anytime" because he would get "three square meals a day".
"I was scared of him from that day," he said.
Man claimed he drove William Tyrrell north

"He said if I said anything about the ute ... he would fire-bomb my parents' home."
"Abbott's counsel, Mr Michael Kidd, of the Aboriginal Legal Service, asked Mr X why he had waited all these years to come forward and why he had changed the story given to police in 1968 that he knew nothing of the murder. The informer said he and his family "have lived in fear of your client for a long, long time".
 
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I don't think FA cares anything at all about foster children, non-foster children, women, animals.
His only trigger would be what he wanted to do. imo

Even his male associates (RP, Mr X) were scared of him.

Mr Parish said he was fearful of Abbott after hearing him brag he had twice beaten a murder charge and that "I'd go to jail anytime" because he would get "three square meals a day".
"I was scared of him from that day," he said.
Man claimed he drove William Tyrrell north

"He said if I said anything about the ute ... he would fire-bomb my parents' home."
"Abbott's counsel, Mr Michael Kidd, of the Aboriginal Legal Service, asked Mr X why he had waited all these years to come forward and why he had changed the story given to police in 1968 that he knew nothing of the murder. The informer said he and his family "have lived in fear of your client for a long, long time".

Do you know if his offences are all against women and girls?

Trying to see if he would be motivated to take a male toddler.

Although, I get your point, he is a terrible human with no moral compass so anything’s possible.
 
Do you know if his offences are all against women and girls?

Trying to see if he would be motivated to take a male toddler.

Although, I get your point, he is a terrible human with no moral compass so anything’s possible.

Abbott was acquitted of the charges in relation to the eight-year-old girl, but was subsequently charged with the sexual abuse of two boys and a girl, the inquest heard.

He is serving a 16-year prison term in relation to the abuse of those three children.


Seems he's not choosy at all :mad:
 
Abbott was acquitted of the charges in relation to the eight-year-old girl, but was subsequently charged with the sexual abuse of two boys and a girl, the inquest heard.

He is serving a 16-year prison term in relation to the abuse of those three children.


Seems he's not choosy at all :mad:

Yep seems like a real piece of work. How he’s been cleared is a mystery.

Some of these criminals have a specific type of victim so was wondering if this was the case with FA.

Unless FA was in prison or hospital at the time, I can’t see how he could be ruled out. Wouldn’t be relying on the alibi of a witness who he could easily intimidate.
 
Yep seems like a real piece of work. How he’s been cleared is a mystery.

Some of these criminals have a specific type of victim so was wondering if this was the case with FA.

Unless FA was in prison or hospital at the time, I can’t see how he could be ruled out. Wouldn’t be relying on the alibi of a witness who he could easily intimidate.

I agree Awakening.

I think he's a true opportunist, will take whatever comes his way if he wants it IMO.
 
Yep seems like a real piece of work. How he’s been cleared is a mystery.

Some of these criminals have a specific type of victim so was wondering if this was the case with FA.

Unless FA was in prison or hospital at the time, I can’t see how he could be ruled out. Wouldn’t be relying on the alibi of a witness who he could easily intimidate.
FA was in the hospital the day William disappeared. That’s a good enough alibi imo
 

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