Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

[centred]

Even if an abductor took William, he/she may have shallow-graved William nearby pretty quickly. The police would have been aware of that.

The police gave directions to the search teams (public included). They assembled at the showgrounds in the mornings, and we saw photos of the police speaking to them as a group. Maybe they were also told indicators to look for. Broken branches, footprints, a little concealed/hard to see William. I have never read what their specific instructions were, though.

agree maybe some professionals were more thorough ,however not everyone was privy to the suggestion that he was snatched at that time

I should have said IMO

 

[Couldbe]

JMO - if LE had known initially that fateful morning and especially when the Command Post was set up at the showgrounds where the searchers were assembling for their briefings, that the FM had taken that drive down to there in the FGM's Mazda, maybe a more intensified and focussed search in that immediate area could then have occurred. LE, not knowing about the drive, would have been disadvantaged. Some days later, the FM did decide to tell about it.

 

[kiwi50]

Probably right away. Too many toddlers and young children have been found deceased in dams. Hidden beneath the surface, caught in weeds. They know that.

They stuck cameras down drains and sewer pipes. Looked in rain water tanks. Looking for a body, or possibly an injured/unconscious William.

They did line searches through bush and over open fields (there are photos way back in the threads), looking for a disturbance, a thread, a clue. I don't think they were just casting their eyes around looking for signs of a red Spiderman suit. Not the professionals who were searching, at least.

I think it was after 6 days they were starting to say that William wouldn't have survived for this long alone in the bush.

ETA link: William Tyrrell: Missing boy could not survive six days in bush, police say

Yes. I remember tham searching in the river during the early days.

 

[SouthAussie]

For those who are interested, there is a decent article here about what happens in a Missing Persons search.


Anthony Macklin is a former New South Wales Police Detective & Inspector, with experience in all areas of investigation including sexual assault, homicide, and armed robbery.
Macklin has undertaken cold casework and still works as an investigator and expert witness in matters involving the police.

A race against time

Investigators are working against the clock when they step into a missing person investigation as with each passing moment the risk of the missing individual being in danger increases.

Behind the police tape: What really goes into a missing persons investigation?

With so many questions as to what's involved in a missing person's investigation and why the police follow certain lines of inquiry over others, Starts at 60 went to the experts to determine what goes into finding a missing person.

startsat60.com

 

[centred]

For those who are interested, there is a decent article here about what happens in a Missing Persons search.


Anthony Macklin is a former New South Wales Police Detective & Inspector, with experience in all areas of investigation including sexual assault, homicide, and armed robbery.
Macklin has undertaken cold casework and still works as an investigator and expert witness in matters involving the police.

A race against time

Investigators are working against the clock when they step into a missing person investigation as with each passing moment the risk of the missing individual being in danger increases.

Behind the police tape: What really goes into a missing persons investigation?

With so many questions as to what's involved in a missing person's investigation and why the police follow certain lines of inquiry over others, Starts at 60 went to the experts to determine what goes into finding a missing person.

startsat60.com

Yep in theory its marvelous ,
In reality a little boy is still missing

 

[centred]

JMO - if LE had known initially that fateful morning and especially when the Command Post was set up at the showgrounds where the searchers were assembling for their briefings, that the FM had taken that drive down to there in the FGM's Mazda, maybe a more intensified and focussed search in that immediate area could then have occurred. LE, not knowing about the drive, would have been disadvantaged. Some days later, the FM did decide to tell about it.

Yes it is a pity they didnt start the search in the area the FM herself thought of looking , more than a klm way down the country road and in the complete opposite direction to the showground area , they are excused though because they were heading out looking for a lost or injured boy ...as you say though IF she had have suggested what she thought of doing herself and then forgetting to mention it again until later ...perhaps they might have found something that day ...we will never know now ...imo

 

[JBowie]

“Det chief insp Laidlaw conceded the evidence “was just plain wrong”

I think that sentence needs to be read in context:

Other documents tendered to the court showed a series of inaccuracies and "obvious errors".

Written evidence relating to the case of Peter Baumann - a man who disappeared from Sydney in the 90s with his body never to be recovered - made references to post-mortem results.

Det Chief Insp Laidlaw conceded the evidence was "just plain wrong". [BBM]

IMO this is a worry:

The inquiry was told that before 2004 there was no system in place for the management or review of unsolved homicides.

Despite relying on a tracking file as a "live document" to keep recording unsolved homicides and suspicious deaths, the inquiry was shown that the last matter on file was from August 2016.

Det Chief Insp Laidlaw said the official record management system used by his team since it was established in 2004 was still a work in progress when asked why no data had been recorded for the past seven years. [BBM]

I think it's pretty clear from this article that essentially zero priority has been given to resourcing this (presumably computerized) record management system for many years. It would be interesting to know at whose feet resourcing decisions for such systems lie.

(PS: Strikes me as strange that this article is filed under Yahoo Sport.)

Judge urges urgent audit of all unsolved homicide cases

The head of the NSW unsolved homicide squad could not tell an inquiry how cases were selected for review and where any list for reinvestigations could be found.

au.sports.yahoo.com

 

[JLZ]

Yes it is a pity they didnt start the search in the area the FM herself thought of looking , more than a klm way down the country road and in the complete opposite direction to the showground area , they are excused though because they were heading out looking for a lost or injured boy ...as you say though IF she had have suggested what she thought of doing herself and then forgetting to mention it again until later ...perhaps they might have found something that day ...we will never know now ...imo

FGM's to the riding school is about a kilometre including the length of Benaroon Drive. From the showground to the riding school is about 1.2km.

 

[centred]

FGM's to the riding school is about a kilometre including the length of Benaroon Drive. From the showground to the riding school is about 1.2km.

yes is that right , Turning out of Benaroo Drive at the corner of FGM house and to the right ,south towards Bartar creek rd and beyond goes on and on and into dirt roads and properties ...so way out of the 1 klm range of the first search

 

[drsleuth]

Searches ( both community members & officials ) worked their absolute butts off looking for William for days & days on end & I'd like to say thanks to them all, <modsnip> ( btw all areas neighbours & community members searched were searched again & sometimes again & again by police )

Also from very early on there was a parallel investigation going on, with other crime units involved ( eg sex crimes squad ) , while also searching for a "lost" 3 yr old boy.

They also didn't have infinite resources ( the 1st day they didn't even have a topographical map available)

Specialised units had to come from hours & hours away ( ie Newcastle search & rescue )

They had helicopters x 2 up by 1pm until 17:30 ( no visibility ) , police on trail bikes, horses, police divers, police dog unit - they had more resources on day 2

I know that Snr Const Chris Rowley spoke with a resident of Batar Creek Rd on the first day ( approx 1.5 kms from the corner of Cobb & Co )

Just been looking over by notes about the initial searches.

 

[Couldbe]

Yes it is a pity they didnt start the search in the area the FM herself thought of looking , more than a klm way down the country road and in the complete opposite direction to the showground area , they are excused though because they were heading out looking for a lost or injured boy ...as you say though IF she had have suggested what she thought of doing herself and then forgetting to mention it again until later ...perhaps they might have found something that day ...we will never know now ...imo

JMO - And the fact that LE did not get to know about the FM's drive in the Mazda until some days later could have been crucial in their investigation: e.g. the advantage in early inquiries about who else could have been on the road, and who may have been able to support her in her assertion about her drive.

 

[sleepinoz]

JMO - And the fact that LE did not get to know about the FM's drive in the Mazda until some days later could have been crucial in their investigation: e.g. the advantage in early inquiries about who else could have been on the road, and who may have been able to support her in her assertion about her drive.

To be truthful, we don't actually know that she didn't advise them of her drive until "some days later", we are only assuming via the video. Maybe the officer doing the walk through didn't have all the facts. IMO

 

[JLZ]

yes is that right , Turning out of Benaroo Drive at the corner of FGM house and to the right ,south towards Bartar creek rd and beyond goes on and on and into dirt roads and properties ...so way out of the 1 klm range of the first search

Turning out of Benaroon Drive you're already on Batar Creek Road, follow it 540m south and you're where FFC said she stopped. That's about 700m from FGM's as the crow flies. A 1-kilometre radius from FGM's would easily take in the whole of Cobb & Co Road, and maybe a third of Kendall Forest. Are you saying it would have been desirable to start at the riding school and take a 1-kilometre circle from that point?

 

[drsleuth]

Turning out of Benaroon Drive you're already on Batar Creek Road, follow it 540m south and you're where FFC said she stopped. That's about 700m from FGM's as the crow flies. A 1-kilometre radius from FGM's would easily take in the whole of Cobb & Co Road, and maybe a third of Kendall Forest. Are you saying it would have been desirable to start at the riding school and take a 1-kilometre circle from that point?

Senior Const Wendy Hudson's sons , one who was in the SES at the time ( prob still is? ) were part of the searchers who searched south of Benaroon drive bushland on the first day also ( they arrived @ 12:45 )--source = evidence from Wendy at the inquest

Wendy had land & search logs to log where they had been also

 

[k-mac]

Wow, this does not bode well for Williams case.

“Unsolved homicide squad detective chief inspector David Laidlaw conceded his team had no record of many of the cold cases being examined and had made no communication with the hate crimes unit over the course of the hearing”

“Det chief insp Laidlaw conceded the evidence “was just plain wrong”

“In another startling admission Laidlaw said his team “quite possibly” did not look at all cases between 1970 and 2009 and agreed he had “absolutely no idea as to the dimension of the problem”

Judge urges urgent audit of all unsolved homicide cases

The head of the NSW unsolved homicide squad could not tell an inquiry how cases were selected for review and where any list for reinvestigations could be found.

au.sports.yahoo.com

why would you assume this doesn't bode well for Williams case??

William has an entire strikeforce dedicated to him.

Sadly probably not even 1% of unsolved crimes are afforded this same treatment little William has.
( the ones actually referred to in the article)

Look there...not here....

moo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think it was after 6 days they were starting to say that William wouldn't have survived for this long alone in the bush.

I remember thinking at the time that the search area wasn't wide enough.

In some cases even very small children were found a lot further away than the limit of how far the experts said they could walk.

 

[centred]

Turning out of Benaroon Drive you're already on Batar Creek Road, follow it 540m south and you're where FFC said she stopped. That's about 700m from FGM's as the crow flies. A 1-kilometre radius from FGM's would easily take in the whole of Cobb & Co Road, and maybe a third of Kendall Forest. Are you saying it would have been desirable to start at the riding school and take a 1-kilometre circle from that point?

No I am not saying that ...Sorry but i meant south on Batar creek to Cobb and co and beyond

<modsnip - rude, unnecessary>

 

[centred]

I remember thinking at the time that the search area wasn't wide enough.

In some cases even very small children were found a lot further away than the limit of how far the experts said they could walk.

Case in point FM must have thought the same , and we don't really know how far she went , its only hearsay from FM ...

 

[bearbear]

i notice watching the ch7 tv ad for sunday nights programme, they mention cuts and bruises on william

7News Spotlight: July 9 | TV Tonight

On Sunday 7News Spotlight speaks to William Tyrell's biological mother about latest developments.

tvtonight.com.au

 

[Lemony]

I remember thinking at the time that the search area wasn't wide enough.

In some cases even very small children were found a lot further away than the limit of how far the experts said they could walk.

It's interesting to read about tracker Jake Cassar's thoughts. He was involved in the initial search and believes it's possible William was missed.

"Mr Cassar said investigators shouldn’t discount the possibility that the hundreds of officers deployed to the search area in 2014 simply missed William or tracks left by him at the time".

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/william-tyrrell-professional-tracker-says-police-shouldnt-discount-possibility-that-clues-were-missed-during-initial-search/news-story/f8b23dec7d2599381e1d1363729fc14c