Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

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SLouTh said:
We don’t actually know if those surveillance devices assisted Police in the investigation of William’s case, or not?

Since the time of the surveillance, Police have recommended charges to the OPDD for the FM, so it is possible that some information was useful??

IMO
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IMO - if they had anything incriminating, charges would not have to be referred to the DPP, they would have been charged already. That child had to go through all of that just for them to "recommend" charges without actually charging anyone?
 
bearbear said:
so if a foster child has a support person they can confide in, what happens if the child accuses their foster family of hurting them? does the supporter believe the child or the family, and wouldnt the possible outcome of that make the child fearful of reporting?
also with L, couldnt the surveillance team have removed her on the pretence a teacher had noticed bruising etc, and carried on with their surveillance?
i guess its probably not as simple as that with all the departments involved though?
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I think, that the presence of the bio sister of the disappeared child= little W in the household was the requirement for a successful investigation. Without little L less opportunity for slipping-ups (re William) by the FFC or MFC and much less chance, the damn secrets from 2014 could be recorded.
 
SLouTh said:
Can anyone remember or link the article or news segment where Detective Ogilvy re approached the child protection unit as he was concerned about the escalation in the intimidation behaviours please???

A detective from that unit also gave evidence this week …… specifically relating to the intimidation charges / behaviours …


For the life of me, I just can’t find where I read or heard that ….
Many thanks.

IMO
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I thought for a long time, that stalking and intimidation of L happened (also?) after L was taken away from the FP. Now it seems, all had only happened, when little L was still a foster child living in the FP-household. I am confused by it. o_O
 
sleepinoz said:
IMO - if they had anything incriminating, charges would not have to be referred to the DPP, they would have been charged already. That child had to go through all of that just for them to "recommend" charges without actually charging anyone?
Click to expand...
There is a chance, that the Coroner recommended going via the ODPP as they have been operating under her direction since the inquest closed.

IMO
 
FromGermany1 said:
I thought for a long time, that stalking and intimidation of L happened (also?) after L was taken away from the FP. Now it seems, all had only happened, when little L was still a foster child living in the FP-household. I am confused by it. o_O
Click to expand...

"Stalking and intimidation" is one charge. It doesn't sound like any stalking was involved. The intimidation is the verbal incidents within the home.

Somehow they have 6 incidents within 2 charges of "stalking and intimidation" for FM. John Stratton has asked they be set out more clearly, prior to the December court date.

imo
 
Couldbe said:
JMO - What sort of person is John Stratton SC to say:

Child 'scared' after Tyrrell foster dad's alleged abuse

"The woman's barrister, John Stratton SC, suggested the assault and intimidation allegations were not serious enough to warrant investigation by specialist police."

And didn’t he also say it was a normal household!
Click to expand...
And what sort of people allow their lawyers to make such statements to undermine a child they pretty much raised and once considered their own! (Or at least they called themselves their family) Moo
 
SouthAussie said:
Somehow they have 6 incidents within 2 charges of "stalking and intimidation" for FM. John Stratton has asked they be set out more clearly, prior to the December court date.
Click to expand...
BBM

SA do you have a link for the 6 incidents they are referring to, with the intimidation charges please?
Thanks
 
SLouTh said:
BBM

SA do you have a link for the 6 incidents they are referring to, with the intimidation charges please?
Thanks
Click to expand...

There is an explanation of those incidents in this article.


He argued five of the six allegations of intimidation - which constitute the two intimidation charges - did not meet the criteria of the offences.

 
SLouTh said:
Can anyone remember or link the article or news segment where Detective Ogilvy re approached the child protection unit as he was concerned about the escalation in the intimidation behaviours please???

A detective from that unit also gave evidence this week …… specifically relating to the intimidation charges / behaviours …


For the life of me, I just can’t find where I read or heard that ….
Many thanks.

IMO
Click to expand...

And this is the link for Matthew Davis' involvement. A child abuse investigator who may or may not have recommended that SFR keep the child in an abusive situation, and who may or may not have recommended that DCJ be notified that a foster child had been struck.

It certainly seems that he did not actually help the child during the 9 month period.
More likely that he helped SFR form the charges at some point in time. imo


The woman's barrister, John Stratton SC, suggested the assault and intimidation allegations were not serious enough to warrant investigation by specialist police.

Child abuse unit detective Matthew Davis agreed his squad would not normally investigate such matters, but he said he was helping homicide investigators who detected the alleged abuse during their ongoing probe into William's case.

www.9news.com.au

Child 'scared' after Tyrrell foster dad's alleged abuse

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au
 
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SLouTh said:
FM has plead guilty to those two assault charges, however they are being heard in conjunction with the intimidation and stalking charges ….

So the penalties will be decided on the combined charges ….

There is further hearing in December, and Magistrate has indicated a verdict will be given in February 2024. (Sometimes there is further delay until the sentence is handed down after the verdict)

So we won’t know the outcome until at least Feb 2024.




The magistrate ordered written submissions from the parties before returning to court in December with plans to deliver a judgment in February.
www.perthnow.com.au

Tears as child taken from Tyrrell foster mum's care

Missing toddler William Tyrrell's former foster mother told a child being removed from her care that it wasn't the youngster's fault, a court has heard.
www.perthnow.com.au www.perthnow.com.au

IMO
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What do we think is the purpose of the hearing in December? I have been thinking that I haven't seen much if anything from MFC's barrister. Perhaps in December there will be a focus on the charges against him.
 
bearbear said:
so if a foster child has a support person they can confide in, what happens if the child accuses their foster family of hurting them? does the supporter believe the child or the family, and wouldnt the possible outcome of that make the child fearful of reporting?
also with L, couldnt the surveillance team have removed her on the pretence a teacher had noticed bruising etc, and carried on with their surveillance?
i guess its probably not as simple as that with all the departments involved though?
Click to expand...

That’s what breaks my heart bear.

<modsnip: no link/rumor>
 
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silvercrown said:
I’m not an expert on the foster system but I would assume a case worker would check in with the children at least every few months. How comprehensive these checks were, or if they were happening regularly in reality is a different question.
The FCs had been able to pull the wool so to speak for a long time. I’m sure they would have been able to talk their way out of a paper bag to any accusations L or any other children may have raised with a case worker. Look at how GJ was convinced they were fantastic people etc.

Also, kids naturally try to protect their parents and realistically, they had care of L since she was so young, I’m sure they felt like they were her parents. L may have denied anything for a while, or may have been threatened by the FCs not to say anything.

And imo people that physically hurt kids know to do it where injuries aren’t visible. For injuries that are visible they always seem to have an excuse for them.

All moo
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I have a family member who worked for the equivalent of FACS in another state and there are more cases then they can handle.

Some cases they never even look at.

Their focus is on kids at risk in their bio homes, not kids at risk in their foster homes as that’s where they are now meant to be safe.

And not at all downplaying what this foster child has been through, but these caseworkers are dealing with extremely severe cases of abuse that I won’t type out here.

It’s why my family member left. I believe it’s a similar situation in every state in the country.

The staff turnover is extremely high and that only adds to the problem.

Often caseworkers are hired straight after they’ve got their social work degree. They go in starry eyed determined to change the system only to become rather jaded. They are often inexperienced, almost always underpaid, and definitely overworked.
 
Awakening said:
That’s what breaks my heart bear.

<modsnip: no link/rumor>
Click to expand...

BBM

“William Tyrrell's former foster mother has wept in a Sydney court while it heard secret recordings of heated arguments between her and a child, as she and her husband face charges of assault and intimidation.

As it was played in court, the woman appeared visibly distraught and sobbed with her head in her hands while her partner consoled her.”

www.abc.net.au

Tyrrell's former foster mother sobs as secret recordings from her home and car played in court

The former foster parents are facing charges of assault and intimidation of a child in a five-day hearing in Sydney.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

“During one recording, the young child can be heard for several minutes crying and pleading “I need some help” and saying that she needs more time in reference to a household chore.”

“*advertiser censored*king stupid little ”,” he says to the child before she gets in the car.

The child can be heard crying as he calls them “so rude”.”


“A child allegedly assaulted and intimidated by former foster parents can be heard sobbing and begging with them in audio played to a court

In recordings played in Parramatta Local Court on Tuesday, the child could be heard crying and begging with her two carers, at one stage pleading with them to let her go.”

www.9news.com.au

Wails, sobs heard in Tyrrell foster parent recordings played in court

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au

In my opinion, it’s nice that the former foster mother had her partner to comfort her when she was crying in court, because from the recordings it appears the child had no one comforting her in the moment when she was crying, distraught and begging for help.
 
SouthAussie said:
There is an explanation of those incidents in this article.


He argued five of the six allegations of intimidation - which constitute the two intimidation charges - did not meet the criteria of the offences.

Click to expand...
Thanks for the link SA.

And as per the same article the magistrate’s reply to this suggestion by Mr Stratton was:

Magistrate Susan McIntyre said there was a “prima facie case” to answer on all the charges and it could be argued that all of the woman’s statements caused the child to fear mental or physical harm.

 
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