GUILTY Austria - Woman Held Captive, Had 7 Children by Father

[JBean]

I recently had an interesting discussion with a group of people that felt it was wrong to turn people in for any sort of wrongdoing. These people felt the sole burden for keeping a community safe fell on the appointed authorities and nobody else. I wonder if we'll hear any of that justification on this event.

I cannot even imagine this type of mindset. Are these grown mature people ? I mean that is so nonsensical.
I would not want these people for my neighbors.

ETA: Sometimes I realize that the difference between living and dying one day may come down to the people around me.

 

[Floh]

I recently had an interesting discussion with a group of people that felt it was wrong to turn people in for any sort of wrongdoing. These people felt the sole burden for keeping a community safe fell on the appointed authorities and nobody else. I wonder if we'll hear any of that justification on this event.

IMO, that group of people are wrong.

 

[SewingDeb]

(Snip to shorten)

Maybe they can find a windowless, small, underground, secure psychiatric unit for him

There's one at his house ... just bring in a psychiatrist periodically to work with him.

 

[JBean]

I don't know. Since we're not face to face on these boards I cannot tell exactly who I'm dealing with. Except for the fact that you and I have spoken on the phone, is there any way you would know for sure I'm male, after all?

I have a pretty good idea, though, that some were dead serious about not being a narc, snitch or rat.

I would not have such people in my life, and if my kids brought home a friend with an attitude like that I'd kick them out & explain to my kids why you do not associate with them.

Just think how much better these poor kids' lives would have been if someone had narced on the "dad" earlier.

I am sure they wouldn't mind snitching, ratting, or narcing if it touched them *directly*. I think that is the problem sometimes. hey if it isn;t impacting *me* what do I care?
Of course the pendulum can swing the other way in a Mrs. Kravitz fashion where some people make everyone's business their business and I am opposed to that just as much.
TO me it just comes down to using your common sense. I saw a man carrying a child that was maybe 15-18 months old down the road. That child was screaming bloody murder fighting this guy. he stuffed her into a car and took off.
This could have easliy been the father as it is not an uncommon scene. But I didn't know what was happening. So I got the license plate number called the police told them what I saw and went about my business.
Since it was most likely the father should I have intervened? or just stayed out of it?
I have no idea what ever happened.

 

[JBean]

Josef Fritzl 'will plead insanity' to dodge prison


Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who fathered seven children with his daughter while keeping her locked up in a subterranean dungeon as a sex slave for 24 years, will plead insanity to avoid a prison sentence.
Lawyers for Fritzl, 73, dubbed the Incest Monster by local media will argue that he was not responsible for his actions and will try to acquire a certificate of insanity for their client.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3871049.ece

Does anyone think that this guy was actually in love with his daughter? Thoughts?

 

[JBean]

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/chilling-details-emerge-in-incest-case/20080504103109990001

Chilling Details Emerge in Incest Case

By BRADLEY S. KLAPPER,
AP
Posted: 2008-05-04 12:31:25


AMSTETTEN, Austria (May 4) - The sister-in-law of an Austrian man accused of imprisoning his daughter for 24 years in a dingy dungeon and fathering seven children with her said he treated his family like a "tyrant."
snip
he woman, who has pictures of herself with the family, asked only to be identified as Christine R. to avoid public attention and throngs of journalists seeking interviews.

She said Fritzl's daughter Elisabeth ran away from home as a 17-year-old, about six months before police say she was locked into the soundproofed, windowless cellar beneath their apartment.

Christine R. also painted the most complete picture to date of her sister Rosemarie: a woman who against all odds fought to hold together a troubled family, yet never suspected that the cause of so much pain was in her own home.

 

[Native New Yorker]

Several years ago I moved into a new neighborhood. We have two kids. Shortly after we moved in a family came over, and informed us that there was a registered sex offender directly across the street from us. I double checked the info on the sex offenders site. I was glad to have the information, and maintained a cordial but very, very wary relationship with the sex offender, who by the way had five children.
I then told several other neighbors, who had young children, or grandkids who visited.
Imagine my shock and dismay when one of the neighbors whom I told became angry at me for telling her, or anyone else. She said that he had paid his debt to society, and that we should forget it. The angry woman's daughter actually went to the sex offender, and told him that I was the "neighborhood gossip". He had not known that I knew of his past, so this made things very uncomfortable for me.
In the future, if I convey any such information, I will do it anonymously. You never know who will have sympathizers!
Oh, and he has been arrested again, but thank goodness we have moved!

 

[JBean]

Several years ago I moved into a new neighborhood. We have two kids. Shortly after we moved in a family came over, and informed us that there was a registered sex offender directly across the street from us. I double checked the info on the sex offenders site. I was glad to have the information, and maintained a cordial but very, very wary relationship with the sex offender, who by the way had five children.
I then told several other neighbors, who had young children, or grandkids who visited.
Imagine my shock and dismay when one of the neighbors whom I told became angry at me for telling her, or anyone else. She said that he had paid his debt to society, and that we should forget it. The angry woman's daughter actually went to the sex offender, and told him that I was the "neighborhood gossip". He had not known that I knew of his past, so this made things very uncomfortable for me.
In the future, if I convey any such information, I will do it anonymously. You never know who will have sympathizers!
Oh, and he has been arrested again, but thank goodness we have moved!

I am borrowing your post and I started a thread in the jury room

 

[Rum Tum Tugger]

Josef Fritzl Could Face Murder Charges


One of the children held captive in Austria's "house of horrors" is likely to die and her father, Josef Fritzl, will be charged with her murder.


Kerstin Fritzl, 19, who lived her entire life as a prisoner in a subterranean dungeon, suffered multiple organ failure and is in a coma from which medical experts now say there is little hope of a recovery.

If she dies, prosecutors say they will charge Fritzl with "murder by negligence".


He is also likely to face a second murder charge over the death of a baby boy who only survived for three days after being born in his cellar in the town of Amstetten in 1996.

Austrian detectives also are investigating allegations that Fritzl was a serial rapist who brutally attacked women over a period stretching back 40 years.

<Snip - article continues>



Fritzl to Plead "Insanity" Over Incest



Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who fathered seven children with his daughter while keeping her locked up in a subterranean dungeon as a sex slave for 24 years, will plead insanity to avoid a prison sentence.

Lawyers for Fritzl, 73, say they will argue that he was not responsible for his actions and will try to acquire a certificate of insanity for their client.

Rudolf Mayer, a prominent Vienna lawyer who represents Fritzl, said, In my personal opinion, Josef Fritzl is mentally ill and therefore not responsible for his actions. I believe that my client does not belong in a prison but rather in a closed psychiatry ward.

<Snipped - Article continues>


Rum Tum

 

[Zanko]

Fritzl to Plead "Insanity" Over Incest



Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who fathered seven children with his daughter while keeping her locked up in a subterranean dungeon as a sex slave for 24 years, will plead insanity to avoid a prison sentence.

Lawyers for Fritzl, 73, say they will argue that he was not responsible for his actions and will try to acquire a certificate of insanity for their client.

Rudolf Mayer, a prominent Vienna lawyer who represents Fritzl, said, In my personal opinion, Josef Fritzl is mentally ill and therefore not responsible for his actions. I believe that my client does not belong in a prison but rather in a closed psychiatry ward.

<Snipped - Article continues>


Rum Tum

I don't know about the laws in Austria, but wouldn't it be difficult to plead insanity when he was sane enough to hide what he was doing for 24 years? The insanity defense works when someone was unaware of right versus wrong. If someone doesn't think what they are doing is wrong, why hide it?

 

[philamena]

Does anyone think that this guy was actually in love with his daughter? Thoughts?

After I realized the magnitude of what he'd done to his daughter, I have to admit I considered the possibility of his being in love with his daughter.
Maybe that was something his sick, twisted mind allowed him do.

If he was in love with his daughter, why did he stay married to his wife? Is his wife the birth mother of the daughter he impregnated?

 

[Zanko]

Does anyone think that this guy was actually in love with his daughter? Thoughts?

Love, no. Obsession, maybe. Not to be too philosophical but love is a word applied to many things. I wouldn't apply raping your own child and imprisoning her an act of love. What was his perception? I would think he was "in love" with being in a god-like role.

 

[JBean]

Love, no. Obsession, maybe. Not to be too philosophical but love is a word applied to many things. I wouldn't apply raping your own child and imprisoning her an act of love. What was his perception? I would think he was "in love" with being in a god-like role.

I don't mean in love as you or I might be.. I mean in love in his way.

 

[philamena]

Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who fathered seven children with his daughter while keeping her locked up in a subterranean dungeon as a sex slave for 24 years, will plead insanity to avoid a prison sentence.

He can't be flippin serious. :furious: :behindbar

 

[JBean]

Austria cellar man 'mentally ill'



Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man accused of abusing his imprisoned daughter for 24 years, should not go to jail as he is mentally ill, his lawyer says. Rudolf Mayer says his client should be in a psychiatric unit rather than facing a trial, which will not be fair because of press coverage of the case.

snip
In my personal opinion, Josef Fritzl is mentally ill and therefore of diminished responsibility. I believe that my client does not belong in prison but in a secure psychiatric unit," Mr Mayer told the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7382986.stm


Maybe they can find a windowless, small, underground, secure psychiatric unit for him

Josef Fritzl 'will plead insanity' to dodge prison


Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man who fathered seven children with his daughter while keeping her locked up in a subterranean dungeon as a sex slave for 24 years, will plead insanity to avoid a prison sentence.
Lawyers for Fritzl, 73, dubbed the Incest Monster by local media will argue that he was not responsible for his actions and will try to acquire a certificate of insanity for their client.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3871049.ece

He can't be flippin serious. :furious: :behindbar

Here are a couple full articles Philamena.

 

[Floh]

Fritzl kept sex slave daughter chained up with a dog lead in the dungeon that SHE helped to build

Documents leaked from police files also show that Elisabeth helped to build the prison where she was to spend the next 24 years of her life.
She had not been told what the cellar was for and had been ordered by her bullying father to help him work on it.
It was only when a 300 kilo door was put in place that she discovered she had built her own prison.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=563912&in_page_id=1770

 

[BeavisMom62]

That doesn't prove who the mother is though. I have thought the same thing as NNY. The five year old comes quite a ways after the others (the next ones up are 12, 14, 15, 18, 19).

Exactly! And if Kersten was the mother of the five year old, she would have been around the same age as Elisabeth was when the began abusing her. Makes sense to me.

 

[BeavisMom62]

i am also interested as to what developments will happen concerning mr. monster's mental state. will he have a breakdown now that his little fantasy world, his double life, has unravelled?? does he have any remorse or have the slightest clue that anything he's done is WRONG? or does he still feel totally justified.. just pissed at himself, for getting caught?
here is a picture-perfect TEXTBOOK example of a true SOCIOPATH. perfectly functional guy, seemingly normal, with a good job, nice home & family, people who know his say 'he seemed normal', etc... and yet,, the worst kind of sicko, in secret.
what is also unbelievable is how he could hold such a secret for so long without a slip of the tongue, or without breaking down under the pressure of holding the secret. for most people, harboring a shameful secret is too much work for them to hide for very long,, it drains them, and it's a relief when it's finally out. then again, that's what makes people sociopaths... they can lie so well and it doesn't seem to bother them.. the lies are seamlessly woven into the fabric of their daily life, and they have no sense of ethics concerning how their lies & manipulations affect people..

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[JBean]

Exactly! And if Kersten was the mother of the five year old, she would have been around the same age as Elisabeth was when the began abusing her. Makes sense to me.

I wouldn;t be surprised either but most articles I have read have said that the DNA results proved that he was the father of Elisabeth's children.
Perhaps the journalists assumed? but we has been reported to date is that the DNA shows they are the parents.

>>Colonel Franz Polzer, head of the Lower Austria Land Office of Criminal Investigation, said Tuesday at a press conference that DNA tests showed that Josef F. was the father of his daughter's all six surviving children.<<
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/30/content_8077018.htm

>>According to officials, the DNA evidence supports the 73-year-old man confessions about fathering 6 children by his daughter while holding her hostage in his basement<<
>>t a news conference, Mr Franz Polzer, Lower Austria police chief, said according to BBC: "The DNA tests provided decisive evidence that the six children that Elisabeth gave birth to have the same father<<
http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_DNA_Confirms_Austrian_Incest_Case_16955.html

>>DNA test results confirmed Tuesday that Fritzl was indeed the father of her daughter’s six surviving children.<<
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breaki...an-docs-keep-horror-house-victims-from-public

 

[BeavisMom62]

The crimes of Dennis Radar (BTK) went on for 30 years before he was stopped. His wife never knew either.

True, true. Its just amazing, isn't it? :waitasec: