GUILTY Austria - Woman Held Captive, Had 7 Children by Father

[Floh]

Just read that the oldest daughter who is in a coma has been upgraded to stable condition.

"She has become more stable, but despite that we have to continue to keep her under sedation and give her respiratory help," Reiter said, noting it is not clear how long she will be kept under sedation."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/05/austria.incest/index.html

I hope she lives and gets a chance to start her life.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I hope she lives and gets a chance to start her life.

Me too! She deserves it and soooooooooooo much more!

 

[reb]

native newyorker--
my first impression regarding WHY the mother did not make ANY effort to try to find her daughter when she disappeared (even though the sexual abuse was apparently an OPEN FAMILY SECRET--?? and still,, the mother was not aware of it?? yeah right!!)...... was that the mother did not really care about her daughter very much. i think that the mother had never bonded properly with her, maybe she was the product of marital rape (but probably all her children were)-- or maybe had PPD when elisabeth was a baby.. or, she was jealous and angry at her being young, pretty, rebellious and that she dared to challenge her father's authority. because in rosemarie's mind, NO ONE did that. i think this made the mother secretly resent her or not care what happened to her.
how else would you explain the mother's easy acceptance of some bogus story that she joined a cult?

either that, or... the mother really DID care about her daughter.,. and was relieved that she escaped... and was happy to let her stay 'missing'.

as for the monster... actually, i hope they DO set him free.... right now. let him have mob justice. if the law can't deal with him properly, then let THE PEOPLE do it!!!

 

[Native New Yorker]

Reb, I sure agree with you! I just could not believe the article I posted earlier today, where the older siblings of Elizabeth were having a nice vacation, while she was at home with the monster! How telling is that, of her status in the family as a young child/family scapegoat?

 

[Vegas Bride]

One of the many many things about this case that bothers me is how often this evil thing got Elizabeth pregnant. Why did he have to do that? Was it to have even more control over her? He could have very easily gotten a vasectomy and there would be no pregnancies! Why put her through even more torture? Did he get a thrill seeing her down in that dungeon pregnant, knowing he had the power and control over her?

I've read about her mother seeing her and being with her at the hospital, has there been any mention of any of her siblings coming to see her?

VB

 

[concernedperson]

One of the many many things about this case that bothers me is how often this evil thing got Elizabeth pregnant. Why did he have to do that? Was it to have even more control over her? He could have very easily gotten a vasectomy and there would be no pregnancies! Why put her through even more torture? Did he get a thrill seeing her down in that dungeon pregnant, knowing he had the power and control over her?

I've read about her mother seeing her and being with her at the hospital, has there been any mention of any of her siblings coming to see her?

VB

I think that a very good observation VB. I also believe besides the power and control he enjoyed seeing her in pain. He is a sexual sadist. Think how she felt when he threw her baby into the incinerator? Or when he removed some of her children? I believe he left her with the most ill children or the youngest that HE didn't want in his house not anything to do with his wife's feelings or ability to care for a young child.

As badly as he has destroyed lives in his path we should be somewhat glad he didn't have access to decision making for a country, province, town or city block.

 

[philamena]

One of the many many things about this case that bothers me is how often this evil thing got Elizabeth pregnant. Why did he have to do that? Was it to have even more control over her? He could have very easily gotten a vasectomy and there would be no pregnancies! Why put her through even more torture? Did he get a thrill seeing her down in that dungeon pregnant, knowing he had the power and control over her?

I've read about her mother seeing her and being with her at the hospital, has there been any mention of any of her siblings coming to see her?

VB

Great questions, VegasBride.
He is such a monster.
Raping his own daughter was bad enough, yet he had to sexually abuse and rape her in front of other children.

What makes people so evil?

 

[reb]

we also have to remember there are sick situations where the wife of an abusive tyrant often turns a BLIND EYE to her daughter being molested/raped by her husband.. because it helps calm him down, or lessens his attacks & abuse towards HER..... so they let it continue... sometimes even playing dumb,, ie, 'oh i had no idea that was going on'... because the thought of admitting that you knew is too horrible & unacceptable...

 

[philamena]

I didn't even think of that reb.

 

[Zanko]

Anyone capable of committing such a horrible horrible atrocity most certainly was being abusive and evil in other aspects of his life. People have spoken up and said he was a tyrant and that it was a well known "secret" that he was molesting his daughter. Don't tell me that his wife didn't see him being abusive to the children in some way. Maybe she didn't know he had one of her children locked in the basement, but she still has culpability here. JMO

 

[Native New Yorker]

"An unnamed friend, who joined Josef's wife and daughters on the Italian holiday, provided the photos, saying Elisabeth 'was not allowed' on vacation.

The friend said: "I can't bear to see them (the photos) any more - while we were enjoying ourselves - he could have been at home putting Elisabeth through who knows what ordeal."

Meanwhile, Paul Hoera, a longtime family friend of the Fritzls, told German newspaper Bild: "My three children always played with his children, although I remember that Elisabeth as a child was very withdrawn and shy.

"I got the impression that he (Josef) did not like her very much, he did not treat her as well as other children. He used to beat her a lot more than them as well. She used to get a slap for every small thing.":furious: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=564159&in_page_id=1811

 

[reb]

i totally agree. at some point the old 'but i was so beaten down, i couldn't think straight',,, ceases to be a valid excuse. then again i hate to say this, but i DO think there must be something going on in this particular culture.. that allows this mentality to happen. the tyrant that brainwashes everyone to the point where they don't question anything anymore.. for fear or their own life.. or just to go along with it, because everyone else is.

hmmm... sound familiar...??
apparently he grew up not only in an abusive home himself but also under the shadow of the local concentration camp where many local men worked. so he must have grown up hearing stories from his friends about their fathers who worked there as guards.. and at the time it was considered acceptable.
so he was, in part, a product of his own twisted environment, unfortunately. as we all know, 90-some % of the time when you have an abusive sadist,, they were abused themselves. in fact when this story came out, i was waiting to hear about that.. and sure enough, there it was. so it's up to others who are around people like this... to keep them in check.. look out for signs of mental illness, abuse, to set limits, etc. to basically keep an eye on them. but sadly, everyone around this sicko continued to enable him and allowed his sick behavior to continue, while they submitted to his 'authority' and looked the other way... and just kept feeding into his twisted, power-mad, tyrannical personality.

 

[reb]

and no one questioned, at the time, WHY she was not "allowed" on vacation.....???? WTF is wrong with these people...????

 

[reb]

and i also have to question the siblings of elisabeth.. where where THEY in all this...????? when they were children, i understand they were afraid to stand up to pappa dearest, and may not have known what was right & wrong. but when they were teens, and ADULTS..?? ..when they moved out?? did they not know about the abuse, the rapes, did they not care at all what had happened to their sister?? ..or want to try and rescue her from the home? when they were sunning in italy with their mother, did they not wonder why she was not 'allowed' to go?? talk about a cinderella story (except there's no prince here). WHY did NO ONE stand up for her, try to find her... or seem to care about her...??? again,, it just boggles the mind.

 

[philamena]

Why wasn't he questioned about his treatment of Elizabeth?!?!?
Her life of hell could have been partially prevented.
Sickening......

"I got the impression that he (Josef) did not like her very much, he did not treat her as well as other children. He used to beat her a lot more than them as well. She used to get a slap for every small thing.":furious:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

 

[reb]

i still think her mother should be punished for not helping and protecting her OWN child,, from way back when... obviously it's a horrific case of NEGLECT on her part. she had turned a blind eye to the whole thing.. perhaps if he hit elisabeth, he would not hit HER so much (see my previous post)...... so elisabeth was the convenient scapegoat and punching bag.
of course they won't now,, because they're seeing her (the mother) as an innocent victim too.. but i see her as being the accomplice all along. there is NO excuse. this was a GROWN WOMAN whose responsibility was to protect her child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PSUfan]

Anybody read the book, "A child called It"? The father stood by while the little boy was horribly abused by mom.

I don't think he, or mom were ever brought to justice.

This story sounds similar. Just like dad, and the siblings in that book, this mom was in denial, and did not find the courage, or the will to save her daughter.

 

[reb]

<Just like dad, and the siblings in that book, this mom was in denial, and did not find the courage, or the will to save her daughter.>

exactly,, PSUfan. just don't anyone tell me 'she didn't know.' the truth is: she didn't WANT to know... but nonetheless,, she surely did. i'm waiting for her to start talking... any day now...

 

[believe09]

hey everyone, this thread is getting beyond my ability to comprehend almost-I am waiting to see if Josef has a tie to either the Nazi Party or was victimized in some way during the war. His age is right isn't it, and this type of life sort of falls outside of conventional (understatement)...but the underground apartment etc...just sounds much like the bunkers all over Berlin.

Remember Schindler's list when Ralph Finnes charecter brutalized the Jewish woman he was obsessed with....he was beating her because of his own temptation??? That is what it sounds like to me with his daughter Elisabeth...

 

[PSUfan]

<Just like dad, and the siblings in that book, this mom was in denial, and did not find the courage, or the will to save her daughter.>

exactly,, PSUfan. just don't anyone tell me 'she didn't know.' the truth is: she didn't WANT to know... but nonetheless,, she surely did. i'm waiting for her to start talking... any day now...

yep. She made babies with her husband... she KNEW his sexual appetite... he wouldve explored them with her until she got fat, or old, or whatever.. but NOWAY did she not know his sexual leanings. She wouldve known that he was abusing her daughter, way before the abduction. I would be very surprised if she was the only daughter that he molested. And I use that term "molested" loosely, because you cannot even begin to cover what Elisabeth went through with that one word.