GUILTY Austria - Woman Held Captive, Had 7 Children by Father

[Floh]

Josef Fritzl tortured prostitutes for sexual gratification

"He'd tell her, ‘I want to hear you gasping for breath, I want to see you on the point of dying, but I will let you free again'.
"He wanted to push girls to the brink of death so that he was in a position where he could decide whether they lived or died."
Fritzl, 73, who raped his own daughter Elisabeth, fathering seven children with her in 24 years he kept her locked in a dungeon, shocked the most hardened hookers with his sadistic demands.

More if you can stand to read: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1105_fritzl.shtml

So this indicates even moreso of what Elisabeth probably had to suffer from him.

AND he visited the brothel two to three times a week.

he still loves his wife and thinks she's going to visit him in jail.

 

[believe09]

Josef Fritzl tortured prostitutes for sexual gratification

"He'd tell her, ‘I want to hear you gasping for breath, I want to see you on the point of dying, but I will let you free again'.
"He wanted to push girls to the brink of death so that he was in a position where he could decide whether they lived or died."
Fritzl, 73, who raped his own daughter Elisabeth, fathering seven children with her in 24 years he kept her locked in a dungeon, shocked the most hardened hookers with his sadistic demands.

More if you can stand to read: http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/1105_fritzl.shtml

So this indicates even moreso of what Elisabeth probably had to suffer from him.

AND he visited the brothel two to three times a week.

he still loves his wife and thinks she's going to visit him in jail.

yeah, but he is not a monster.

 

[Floh]

yeah, but he is not a monster.

No, no! and the poor thing is feeling claustrophobic and isolated. :boohoo:

not claustrophobic and isolated enough for my tastes. :furious:

 

[jubie]

Oh my Lord could it even be possible that RoseMarie would visit him? I think Elisabeth's already fragile mind couldn't handle it.


I pray for this family everyday.


Jubie

 

[jubie]

No, no! and the poor thing is feeling claustrophobic and isolated. :boohoo:

not claustrophobic and isolated enough for my tastes. :furious:

I could think of a few places I wouldn't mind setting him free.:furious:




J.

 

[reb]

this begs the question.. what kind of brothel owner would allow a customer to rape, beat up, and nearly kill his prostitutes.....??? especially if he wanted to pay the least he could get away with?? he could have just barred him from the place.

and if he really went the brothel 2-3 times a week (for how many years..? he didn't say).. and visited the cellar every few days.... AND fed them, and took out their garbage, AND 'raised' his family upstairs.. AND had a career.... how did he find time to sleep?? it seems unreal to me that someone could be juggling SO many depraved things in their life, and NO ONE had any clue....??
this guy almost seems superhuman. (...and yet subhuman. a subhuman superhuman??)

 

[concernedperson]

this begs the question.. what kind of brothel owner would allow a customer to rape, beat up, and nearly kill his prostitutes.....??? especially if he wanted to pay the least he could get away with?? he could have just barred him from the place.

and if he really went the brothel 2-3 times a week (for how many years..? he didn't say).. and visited the cellar every few days.... AND fed them, and took out their garbage, AND 'raised' his family upstairs.. AND had a career.... how did he find time to sleep?? it seems unreal to me that someone could be juggling SO many depraved things in their life, and NO ONE had any clue....??
this guy almost seems superhuman. (...and yet subhuman. a subhuman superhuman??)

I think some of the reporting is sensationalized and maybe questionable. The bottom line is so apparent though this man is evil to his core. There is plenty enough evidence of abuse without anything else. Now, the rapes and murders are different as this could be evidence of other crimes that could relate to him but the brothel owner may have an agenda.

Not suggesting that the prostitutes didn't have a worry if he was a customer but suggesting that the brothel owner may have another agenda. Let the women speak for themselves.

 

[mollymalone]

Much of the info leads me to believe that he was in love with her in his own very sick way and loved his cellar family. Obviously it's not healthy, good, or true love, but still another piece of the puzzle that is very relevant to the whole mess. What I am trying understand is what was in his mind.

I asked about the children because I wonder if they are having trouble being separated from one of the few people in the world that they knew. Obviously they are better off without him, but kids especially kids raised under these conditions might not understand that...yet. Understanding their feelings towards him can help in the separation and treatment of these poor children.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...is-making-an-amazing-recovery-89520-20413001/
A friend who lives in Amstetten and asked not to be named, said: "Rosemarie was desperate to give the children a normal start in life, with a proper mum and dad. "She was deeply hurt and embarrassed about Elisabeth supposedly running off. "Lisa called the Fritzls 'mama and papa' when she started school. But teachers told Rosemarie she had to come clean or the children would be totally messed up when they discovered the truth years later." In summer 2000 Rosemarie explained the adoption to the youngsters. The friend said: "She hired a counsellor to sit them down and talk about it. "Then she threw a party to make them feel positive about the new family set-up. From then on she and Fritzl were 'Omi and 'Opi' - Grandma and Grandad."

Alexander and Lisa were constantly tense due to Fritzl's bullying, the friend added. She said: "Their eyes had a look of sheer terror even when he wasn't there. Rosemarie said he was incredibly domineering." Lisa became so desperate to escape life under Fritzl's roof she successfully begged him to let her go to a boarding school near Amstetten.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3908866.ece
Two former friends of Elisabeth said last week that she had sometimes avoided gym classes for fear that the teacher would ask about bruises all over her body. “We learnt to take the beatings,” said Christa Gotzinger, 42, who said she had, in common with Elisabeth, a violent father. “We learnt how to pull ourselves together when the pain was unbearable.” Another friend of Elisabeth, who refused to be identified, claimed that Fritzl punched his children. “He didn’t slap or spank them,” said the friend. “He hit them with his fists. Her brother once told me, ‘The pig will beat us to death one day’.” It turned out that friends had always been sceptical about Elisabeth’s disappearance. At school reunions, when the talk turned to how Elisabeth had run away to join a cult, “I would always say, ‘Don’t be crazy, she would never do such a thing’,” said Christa Woldrich, 42, another former schoolfriend.

Letters from “Lisi” to friends just weeks before she was kidnapped revealed a chirpy teenager looking forward to leaving home for a flat she was planning to share with a sister.

 

[mollymalone]

From that same link : "He denied press reports that the cramped conditions of the cellar had been recreated so that the “downstairs” children would feel more at home in the clinic. It turned out that newspaper accounts of Fritzl brutalising prostitutes in a brothel cellar in Linz were just as much fantasy."

Edited to add:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-one-man-campaign-that-exposed-the-truth.html

The link is an article about the doctor who didn't believe Frizl and pressed to find the mother of Kerstin.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.vogue.com.au/
Natascha Kampusch, who was held captive by her kidnapper for more than eight years, has donated 25,000 euros ($42,000) to the woman and children at the centre of a shocking new incest case."I'm making 25,000 euros available in immediate aid to the family members concerned." In a statement, she called for a wider donation campaign for the victims and said she had asked the charitable organisation SOS Mitmensch to open an account into which the money could be paid.

 

[mysteriew]

Son's evidence could convict Josef Fritzl of murder

Dungeon dad Josef Fritzl could be convicted of murdering his own baby on the evidence of the son he held captive for all his 18 years.

Stefan Fritzl witnessed the birth 12 years ago of a twin, Michael, who died after only three days in Fritzl's damp dungeon. The 73-year-old brute, who fathered seven children with daughter Elisabeth, burned the tiny body in a furnace.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...onvict-josef-fritzl-of-murder-89520-20412823/

 

[reb]

concernedperson-- regarding the brothel owner's story.. good observation on that one, looks like you're right. what a strange way to get publicity (or whatever his motive was??) ...call me gullible!

<The boys are making a good recovery, especially Felix. Both are polite and seem to have had respect instilled into them.>

incredible... considering the circumstances.

as for the 'horror house'.... i think they should bulldoze it, tear out & fill in the cellar space, and make a park out of it.. one with beautiful trees, flowers, and a path, benches, etc. it would probably still be hard for anyone to hang out there,, but at least it would beautiful to look at, and would hopefully eliminate the attraction it would have for curious (and sick) folks.
it would be a really good project for the townspeople to be involved in.. would probably help them find closure.. and would likely be helpful for the healing process of the victims as well, to see this happen.
if someone built another house there,, i can't imagine anyone wanting to live there.
in a way, it's worse than a murder (and yes, someone WAS murdered there.. the baby.)

 

[reb]

Ahh!!!! HERE it is,, finally, in print.. what most of us, i think, have thought all along:

Police to quiz Josef Fritzl's wife again
Rosemarie Fritzl is not a suspect but questions about what she knew remain

<He (Polzer, the chief investigator) added, however, that she and other family members would be questioned again to determine if there was any degree of complicity. Psychologists have speculated that Rosemarie may have subconsciously &#8220;suppressed&#8221; knowledge of her husband&#8217;s double life.>


again.. i think this may be one of the most bizarre and extreme cases of DENIAL ever recorded in modern times. and it's strange how much denial went on in the time of the holocaust... what is it with that culture,, anyway...??

this is sad, but not surprising:
<In one sense, however, they have exchanged one prison for another. &#8220;The original plan was to let them walk outside in the grounds, a tranquil and secluded place,&#8221; said Klaus Schwertner, a spokesman for the clinic. &#8220;But they cannot go outside. We&#8217;re under siege from the press. They&#8217;re climbing the trees to try to see in. They&#8217;re literally storming the clinic.&#8221;>

and- this is what i have been wondering:
<Polzer is unsettled by the thought that there might be other men like Fritzl who have imprisoned their children in secret bunkers. &#8220;It is a real possibility,&#8221; he said with a sigh.>

maybe in austria, all homes- and grounds around homes- should be inspected with heat sensors.. or something...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3908866.ece

 

[reb]

this is wonderful!! how fitting that she would be the one to do this. here's the link:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/na...o-incest-family/2008/05/01/1209234990776.html

Natascha Kampusch, who was held captive by her kidnapper for more than eight years, has donated 25,000 euros ($42,000) to the woman and children at the centre of a shocking new incest case."I'm making 25,000 euros available in immediate aid to the family members concerned." In a statement, she called for a wider donation campaign for the victims and said she had asked the charitable organisation SOS Mitmensch to open an account into which the money could be paid.>

 

[reb]

from the wikipedia entry on natascha kampusch-- check out the underlined part:

<The 18-year old Kampusch reappeared on 23 August 2006. She was cleaning and vacuuming her kidnapper's BMW 850i in the garden. At 12:53pm, someone called Priklopil on his mobile phone, and he walked away to take the call because of the vacuuming noise. Kampusch left the vacuum cleaner running and ran away, unseen by Priklopil, who, according to the caller, completed the phone call without any sign of being disturbed or distracted. Kampusch ran for some 200 metres through gardens and a street, jumping fences, and asking passers-by to call the police, but they paid her no attention. After about five minutes, she knocked on the window of a 71-year old neighbour known as Inge T., saying, "I am Natascha Kampusch".[19] The neighbour called the police, who arrived at 1:04 pm. Later Kampusch was taken to the police station in the town of Deutsch Wagram.>


so.. a girl who is pale and skinny and terrified is running for her life desperately asking people to call police.. and NO ONE pays her any mind?? WTF???! seriously... WHAT in the world is wrong with that country?? it seems as if they despise women... and that modern times have passed them by.

 

[mysteriew]

Ahh!!!! HERE it is,, finally, in print.. what most of us, i think, have thought all along:

Police to quiz Josef Fritzl's wife again
Rosemarie Fritzl is not a suspect but questions about what she knew remain

<He (Polzer, the chief investigator) added, however, that she and other family members would be questioned again to determine if there was any degree of complicity. Psychologists have speculated that Rosemarie may have subconsciously “suppressed” knowledge of her husband’s double life.>


again.. i think this may be one of the most bizarre and extreme cases of DENIAL ever recorded in modern times. and it's strange how much denial went on in the time of the holocaust... what is it with that culture,, anyway...??

this is sad, but not surprising:
<In one sense, however, they have exchanged one prison for another. “The original plan was to let them walk outside in the grounds, a tranquil and secluded place,” said Klaus Schwertner, a spokesman for the clinic. “But they cannot go outside. We’re under siege from the press. They’re climbing the trees to try to see in. They’re literally storming the clinic.”>

and- this is what i have been wondering:
<Polzer is unsettled by the thought that there might be other men like Fritzl who have imprisoned their children in secret bunkers. “It is a real possibility,” he said with a sigh.>

maybe in austria, all homes- and grounds around homes- should be inspected with heat sensors.. or something...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3908866.ece

Unfortunately it isn't just Austria. Though I don't recall any parent holding their children in a dungeon, I have read of some held in bedrooms for years. Sometimes chained. And everynow and then dungeons are found connected to sex offenders and I have read of a couple thought to be connected to the child sex trade.

 

[shana]

<so.. a girl who is pale and skinny and terrified is running for her life desperately asking people to call police.. and NO ONE pays her any mind?? WTF???! seriously... WHAT in the world is wrong with that country?? it seems as if they despise women... and that modern times have passed them by.>

Yours isn't the only post that suggests ethnocentricity but it was the most recent so I quoted from it.

With all due respect and as much as I realize this case is upsetting, its components are certainly not exclusive to Austria nor to any other country. There may be some associated elements rooted in its culture or history but Fritzl is a piece of work unto himself, regardless.

Crimes in the United States are aplenty and horrible, including those in which bystanders have watched a person being murdered and did nothing.

People around the world may certainly be looking at the U.S. and saying wth is wrong with that country?

(...if you catch my drift...no offense intended...)

 

[reb]

no offense taken... and yes of course similar things happen everywhere.
i was just asking the same questions as the austrians have been asking themselves, lately. it does seem to have some connection to the nazi influence... fritzl said so himself, as have many others...

 

[Floh]

From that same link : "He denied press reports that the cramped conditions of the cellar had been recreated so that the “downstairs” children would feel more at home in the clinic. It turned out that newspaper accounts of Fritzl brutalising prostitutes in a brothel cellar in Linz were just as much fantasy."

Edited to add:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-one-man-campaign-that-exposed-the-truth.html

The link is an article about the doctor who didn't believe Frizl and pressed to find the mother of Kerstin.

This figures. we all know how the press sensationalise stuff.

thank goodness the doctor pushed for more information and did not believe Fritzl! :clap: