awaiting sentencing phase

[jay-jay]

All very odd, especially considering that OP/Uncle Arnold made sure that the bail condition about him not being able to return to his home was rescinded. I don't think a suspected murderer should *ever* be allowed back to the scene of the crime, or to be able to go back and chat with neighbours, especially if they are not under supervision.

 

[Sherbert]

1. The timing of eating is not an exact science. It is possible therefore that she ate something at, say, 11 whilst finishing off some work on her speech downstairs before coming up to bed. (OP mentions "when you come [up?], when you go to sleep" twice is his testimony). Perhaps she didn't eat all her dinner at dinner time and some was left and she was now hungry. During this time OP is perhaps upstairs ... and makes contact twice with whoever via WhatsApp.

2. Reeva grabs his phone from him as he is evasive when she questions him and she believes he is lying. From then on she can keep it activated for as long as she keeps touching the screen. Not sure what his timeout period would be.

3. According to OP he attempted to bash the secondary door down from the outside as he ran back upstairs from opening the front door. This is consistent with my theory. Reeva has locked him out of the bedroom.

4. She would hear Reeva screaming and shouting because the balcony door and the bathroom window are both open and Reeva is in the bedroom. Although these windows don't face EvdM's house, in the dead of night when there is little other sound Reeva's voice carries outside the house. But EvdM can't hear what is being said. Also Reeva doesn't necessarily have to be standing immediately on the other side of the door shouting at the door but perhaps deeper into the bedroom. [You could introduce the air rifle here e.g. it was outside the room at one point and he's threatening to use it, to scare her, so she moves away from the door but I'm not convinced. More likely he threatens to bash down the door so she stands away from it]. EvdM lives across the road. She wouldn't hear OP because he is on the other side of the closed bedroom door. The argument may go on for a long while before OP becomes so enraged that he thinks to bash down the door to get his phone back.

By this time she has already read enough to know that OP is cheating on her and she's mad at him. She isn't going to give his phone back whether it's locked itself again or not. He's mad at her because she has his phone and he wants both his phone back and her "the f out of his house". When Reeva runs and locks herself in the toilet he tries to shoulder barge that door too but it doesn't work. He can't pull it open either. He ultimately resorts to the cricket bat to bash down the door to get his phone. But Reeva is now threatening to call the police and, in his mad rage, he grabs his gun and shoots through the door 4 times to stop her. The crack through the bullet hole is caused when he then pulls out the first panel to get into the toilet.

Mr Fossil, many thanks for replying to my queries. I feel that your theory is very plausible, but I still feel that OP locked Reeva in somewhere or out of somewhere, so that she didn't have access to her phone and other belongings, including car keys.

I also feel that the row was brewing before she returned to OP's house and that, if she'd had her phone, she'd have called one of her friends or even her mother to let them know what was happening, as she did when OP was driving recklessly.

I read somewhere that she cancelled her planned attendance at an event with her jewelry sponsor, Sivana Diamonds, scheduled for the evening of 13 Feb, but that report could be misleading.

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

The data on OP's phone that was wiped by Carl, did that include all the photographs on the iPhone photostream as well? Here is why I ask: I use Whatsapp, and when someone sends me a picture, that picture automatically gets downloaded into my photostream. I would have to delete it from my "Photos" app, even if I already deleted the Whatsapp message containing this image.

This made me wonder if they ever looked at his pictures in his Photostream? There might have been some incriminating photos sent to him by Jenna or someone else???

Thoughts???

 

[44ALLAN]

It's really frustrating that this isn't a jury trial as, if it had been, we would've had a whole lot more evidence and information available .. instead of just being handed directly to the judge. Say, for instance, in the UK there is no way that the recording of the call he made to NetCare would not have been played for all of those in the jury to hear for themselves and to deliberate on as part of them forming their final verdict. Instead of which, things like that have just been passed directly to JM (for her to dismiss totally out of hand) .. yes, I know the prosecution could've brought it up if they thought it helped their case, but my point is that in the UK, I am pretty sure it would've been played to the jury as a matter of course. Also, in the UK, juries will go out and visit the crime scene, etc, etc .. JM and her assessors did not do that, and I find that quite astonishing. I have been quite amazed by how the trial proceeded, really most peculiar, and the fact that people like Dixon and Derman were allowed to twitter on as long as they did was truly incredible .. I really do not think that would be allowed in UK courts, and the presiding judge would've kept them in order and told them to wrap up a whole lot quicker than JM did .. she had no control over them whatsoever, and they were just allowed to ramble on and on with all their nonsense. I'm damned glad I live in the UK with our jury system .. it's not perfect, but it's one helluva lot better than SA's system .. and we usually make sure that these types of murderers like OP are sent of swiftly to jail. They all try it on, just like OP did, but there's no pulling the wool over the eyes of the juries in this country .. they will work on the case as if they were detectives, and can spend many hours, days, even weeks, consulting together and deliberating, before they deliver their verdicts. I don't get the impression that JM (and her assessors) did any deliberating at all, they knew right from the 'off' what they were going to do, and what verdict was going to be delivered.

Gotta give you credit j-j .............you called it well before the verdict that you weren't happy with the way the judge was conducting the case and you had grave reservations about the outcome of the bench
Magic deduction because I didn't see that at all.

 

[Cherwell]

But can we really be sure that Mr Nhlengethwa was able to differentiate between OP's various blond companions?

You mean it might have been the Edkins one? lol

 

[PrimeSuspect]

IMO it was a lie as Reeva would not have accepted that she was his fiance so she would have told him that she wasn't.

This man has either been bribed to lie or he decided to do so himself to help OP.

In fact, having read the preview of Barry's book today on amazon.com, much of what the neighbours (that the Defence called) testified IMO could be lies, omissions or exaggerations designed to help OP. I hope they feel embarrassed when and if they read Barry's book themselves one day.

I agree, a few days before the shooting Reeva is introduced as his fiancée, that is a BIG DEAL in a young woman's life! This is Oscar Pistorius, the Golden Boy of South Africa, introducing Reeva as his soon to be wife, nah, I don't believe it for a minute. These days guys would just call her his girlfriend or even just, friend, especially to a NEIGHBOUR!

Reeva by all accounts, was a deep and loving person, she would have told someone close.

Imo, MN is a star struck man who felt privileged to be Oscar Pistorius' neighbour. He tried on the stand to bolster the 'relationship' he had with OP and also to discredit the police as sloppy and unprofessional. He refused to talk with them because one policeman called him, 'bro'. It was not until the third visit by the police were they successful in getting a statement from him. He's a very arrogant man and came across so imo, I didn't like his attitude. He's OP's neighbour, he's not talking to riff raff. :facepalm:

 

[PrimeSuspect]

All very odd, especially considering that OP/Uncle Arnold made sure that the bail condition about him not being able to return to his home was rescinded. I don't think a suspected murderer should *ever* be allowed back to the scene of the crime, or to be able to go back and chat with neighbours, especially if they are not under supervision.

yes, I can see it now, OP visiting MN and reminding him of the day he introduced Reeva as his fiancée', now MN is not going to contradict him, imo.

 

[foxbluff]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...84331&highlight=real+estate+agent#post9784331

I posted this on 26 August, 2013 as I was interested in what led up to events that occurred that night. I am now wondering if "the boys night out" was really going to be a date with Jenna Edkins. IMO OP or his lawyers could have got Divaris, Greyvenstein, Alex and Binge to lie in their statements about OP's movements on 13th February, 2013 and also to give a glowing report of how OP felt about RS to distract the police.

What I wrote last year begins here:

Oscar Pistorius wanted 'boys' night out' prior to shooting RS
25 Aug 2013 00:01

On 13 February, a friend had tried to persuade OP to go for dinner with them but RS asked him to stay home so she could cook a romantic dinner for him

In a statement, OP's best friend, Justin Divaris, said: “I tried to convince OP to stay in Johannesburg that night and come for a boys’ dinner.”

Divaris’s girlfriend Sam Greyvenstein, 29, had asked RS to watch a movie with her, but RS had said no.

Graham Binge, 33, told police OP had said on February 13 that he and RS planned to live together. He said: “OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...d-boys-2217207

Comment: Why has it taken the Mirror over six months to report what Justin Divaris and Sam Greyvenstein said at the bail hearing?

Unfortunately what Divaris said has since been found to be untrue after police found evidence of a call between him and OP on the evening of February 13. That is why he and Sam Greyvenstein are now on the Prosecution's witness list.

However, the Telegraph reported that Valerie Berkow-Kaye, a real estate agent, attended a party with OP on the afternoon of February 13 — hours before the shooting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ainst-him.html

"OP's cousin, Graham Binge, 33, told police that OP had said on February 13 that he and Reeva planned to live together"

Graham Binge is OP's cousin and yet another family member prepared to say anything they can to try to make it look as if OP was serious about RS. OP had no plans whatsoever to do so, just the same as there is no evidence to back up their claims that OP planned to take RS travelling with him.

Why would he? What evidence there is, is not just that he was seeing other women but that he had planned to finish with RS? OP had not even bought her a Valentine's Day present or even a card. There are people on the State's witness list who could testify that OP had agreed to meet her at his house that evening with the intention of ending it face to face with RS. That is why he had not garaged his car earlier and had left the keys in the ignition as if he was intending to go out again to join the boys.

"Graham Binge said: "OP said he had bought a new house in Johannesburg."

OP had bought a house but that was in the previous December 2012. I doubt very much that he would have waited two months to tell his cousin he had done so. I have no doubt that RS expected to be asked to move in, just the same as she had expected to be taken as his guest to events that he was invited to in Cape Town at the end of January but he did not take her with him as is now known. OP cheated on RS in those days and he kept in touch with another woman.

However, her parents reported
that RS, a law graduate, had planned to return to Port Elizabeth and set up a legal firm to add to her income from modelling.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2d3sLlqlg

OP "did tweet a photo in December in which he said he was enjoying the sun and RS company" but at no other time in December (or any other time) did OP tweet such a thing. From 29 November to 14 December, OP was abroad, during which time he tweeted RS only once in response to a tweet from her.

On his return, they did not meet up until 19 December when OP was having lunch with a friend and RS and her friend turned up at the same place. Later that evening, OP got some friends together for a second birthday celebration. However, OP spent hours into the early hours of the morning on the phone talking to someone who had not been able to be there because they had to fly out urgently the day before.

Following that, they didn't see each other until 23 December. They did not even spend Christmas together and on 26 December, OP flew to Cape Town for New Year without RS. RS made (and also paid) her own way there on 1st January although he had not invited her to join him.

The Daily Mail reported:
Reeva’s romantic break with her boyfriend at Christmas, however, did not happen. She called home to say she was spending the festive season with girlfriends and OP had gone to Cape Town with other friends. ‘We didn’t know what to make of it,’ says June. ‘Girls don’t tell their mothers everything. But she sounded all right and seemed to know where Oscar was and what he was doing. It was strange, though, and we missed her so much that day.’

June’s concerns mounted when OP was spotted partying on a friend’s yacht in Cape Town during the holidays. One newspaper headline asked: ‘Where’s Reeva?’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2d3uAPs25

You Rock, Estelle !!

Great post... every word of it.

OP didn't love RS and, the only credit I can give him, he didn't pretend to. Pretty obvious to me that he didn't even respect her... seemingly just waiting around until someone "more suitable" came along. She wasn't fulfilling his needs and he wasn't fulfilling her needs. It's beyond me why such a beautiful, educated woman as Reeva kept hanging around "beating her head against a brick wall" when there were tons of men available who would have welcomed her love. So sad... so very sad...

 

[soozieqtips]

The data on OP's phone that was wiped by Carl, did that include all the photographs on the iPhone photostream as well? Here is why I ask: I use Whatsapp, and when someone sends me a picture, that picture automatically gets downloaded into my photostream. I would have to delete it from my "Photos" app, even if I already deleted the Whatsapp message containing this image.

This made me wonder if they ever looked at his pictures in his Photostream? There might have been some incriminating photos sent to him by Jenna or someone else???

Thoughts???

BIB - that's a good point, Apples! But if CP synched his killer brother's phone with his own computer, I would imagine that everything, including photos, would be gone (unless OP had a backup on his own computer, if he even had one). We'll never know what was so important that it needed to be deleted - all we know is that CP felt empowered enough to tamper with evidence, in the (almost) certain knowledge that even if he was caught, he'd get off, which he did. No rules for these boys. There is absolutely no innocent reason to steal evidence from a crime scene for 12 days, and then destroy what could have been proof that OP murdered Reeva. There just isn't.

 

[soozieqtips]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, but do we know if the sentencing will be televised?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

You Rock, Estelle !!

Great post... every word of it.

OP didn't love RS and, the only credit I can give him, he didn't pretend to. Pretty obvious to me that he didn't even respect her... seemingly just waiting around until someone "more suitable" came along. She wasn't fulfilling his needs and he wasn't fulfilling her needs. It's beyond me why such a beautiful, educated woman as Reeva kept hanging around "beating her head against a brick wall" when there were tons of men available who would have welcomed her love. So sad... so very sad...

So why kill her? It doesn't really fit with what happened that night.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

10 days 'till sentencing. Wonder what sort of community service Masipa will assign to Pistorius?

Cleaning toilets for the rest of his miserable life.

Maybe he’ll “accidentally” get locked in and start sweating bullets.

Yeah, black humor. Totally justified.

 

[foxbluff]

That's really weird .. I can't seem to find the first one now, either .. I deffo saw it not that long ago, but now I am only finding the second one too. Even youtube clips like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1auR6p8dphA that actually states underneath it about 'previous incidents at that house', the actual video does not appear to be the one in which she says that .. she said it in the first press conference, but the video clip is the second press conference. Surely the Pistorius clan have not gone to such lengths as to have that first clip replaced with the second one, all over the internet? .. well, yes, I should imagine they probably have!

It's stupid though, because if you put Brigadier Denise Beukes' quote into google (i.e. "I can confirm there have previously been incidents at the home of Oscar Pistorius – allegations of a domestic nature") then it comes up with hundreds of returns, so they might think they can scrub that snippet of information by pulling/replacing all the videos of it, but they haven't been able to change or scrub that actual quote, it's still there for all to read, even if people can no longer see the video of her saying it. https://www.google.co.uk/#q=I+can+c...+Pistorius+–+allegations+of+a+domestic+nature

BBM - I believe that one incident of what may have been termed DV, was when OP slammed the front door so hard that a piece of wood broke and hurt Taylor-Memory.

 

[44ALLAN]

~rsbm~

Yes, I picked up on that, too .. that is such a lie when he said about how embarrassed he was about his prosthesis .. it's lie after lie after lie isn't it with him, yet somehow JM has not picked up on this at all (either through stupidity or deliberately, through pressure from above) and believes him when he sobbed he thought Reeva was an intruder. Does she believe it too that he was embarrassed about his prothesis (and all the other things he so clearly lied about)? Was she actually listening to any of this stuff at all?[/QUOTE]

No..................not one of the three IMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Cleaning toilets for the rest of his miserable life.

Maybe he’ll “accidentally” get locked in and start sweating bullets.

Yeah, black humor. Totally justified.

I enjoy your humour Lux.

After all the crap we've heard about his 'flight' and 'fight' response and his GAD, and his slow burn like an 'abused woman', Reeva was certainly forgotten.
She was the victim who was suffering that night, OP was the oppressor who wielded his power in his home, Reeva was the intruder who hurt him. I'd hate to get on the bad side of OP.
But it would be fitting for him to really experience being caged, feeling threatened and sweating bullets. :yes:

JMO

 

[foxbluff]

So why kill her? It doesn't really fit with what happened that night.

I've always thought that it was RS who blew up to begin with because she saw evidence of another woman. Number one, I don't think OP would handle that well... particularly coming from someone he doesn't love or respect. She may even have pushed him away at some point and knocked him off his feet... something along those lines. Then he became madder than *ell and went after her. She fled from him, locking herself away from him... increasing his rage.

Lets admit, NONE of us knows exactly what led up to four shots being fired through the toilet door.

Heck, for all I know, the posters who believe RS first locked herself behind the bedroom doors may very well be right. If so, I've always had a different view of that regarding the air rifle. The air rifle, imo, would have been inside the bedroom... not outside where OP would have been.

Sooo, if we accept the locked bedroom doors and that a shot was fired through one of those doors that night, I believe it would have been Reeva who fired the shot to show OP that she had the rifle and would shoot him if he came in to get her. Now that would have for sure, imo, sent him over the edge into a blind murderous rage. moo

 

[44ALLAN]

~rsbm~

Roux absolutely disgusts me.

If he knew his client was guilty he still needed to represent him.
He was seemingly only there to make sure his client was given a fair trial in that instance !

I agree with the sentiment but after watching the trial he's as bent as a nine bob note...............he knows his client is guilty and tried everything in the book to muddy the waters and get a murderer released.
Totally mercenary IMO

 

[Susza]

So why kill her? It doesn't really fit with what happened that night.

May be that Reeva definitely discovered that evening about how OP was cheating on her. And while preparing her speech for the next day she might have definitely realized that she herself was in a DV relationship. A BIG argument followed: she told him all she had to tell him including that SHE will now definitely cut her relationship with him.
NOBODY is allowed to treat OP that way. NOBODY EVER dared. And: She already knew too much. He couldn't let her go ...

 

[kittychi]

May be that Reeva definitely discovered that evening about how OP was cheating on her. And while preparing her speech for the next day she might have definitely realized that she herself was in a DV relationship. A BIG argument followed: she told him all she had to tell him including that SHE will now definitely cut her relationship with him.
NOBODY is allowed to treat OP that way. NOBODY EVER dared. And: She already knew too much. He couldn't let her go ...

I can go along with this. He hadn't opened his Valentine gift yet and when she figured out what was going on, she would not have given it to him. As things happened, she did not have time to "ungive it" yet.

 

[AW2B]

You Rock, Estelle !!

Great post... every word of it.

OP didn't love RS and, the only credit I can give him, he didn't pretend to. Pretty obvious to me that he didn't even respect her... seemingly just waiting around until someone "more suitable" came along. She wasn't fulfilling his needs and he wasn't fulfilling her needs. It's beyond me why such a beautiful, educated woman as Reeva kept hanging around "beating her head against a brick wall" when there were tons of men available who would have welcomed her love. So sad... so very sad...

BRBM

Yes..he didn't love Reeva because he is incapable of loving anyone but himself..

He was extremely jealous and didn't want her to even talk to any other man..that's not love..that was his way of controlling her..