emirates1957
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,585
- Reaction score
- 2,353
Mr Fossil, you are simply amazing. I hope Mrs Fossil uses her phone wisely !!! Your dedication is much appreciated.
awaiting sentencing phase
- Thread starter Harmony 2
- Start date
New Posts
-
MD MD - Baltimore, BlkMale 60-100, UP125030, Skel remains found in vacant residence, Mar'24
- Latest: ProudSuggestion3528
- Status
Mr Fossil, you are simply amazing. I hope Mrs Fossil uses her phone wisely !!! Your dedication is much appreciated.
JudgeJudi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 10,605
- Reaction score
- 31,192
I just found this. I wasn't a WS member at the very beginning so apologies if it's been posted before.
Defences Heads of Argument at the Bail Hearing
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/Oscar-Pistorius-Heads-of-Argument.pdf
Defences Heads of Argument at the Bail Hearing
http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/Oscar-Pistorius-Heads-of-Argument.pdf
BBM
Actually I'm not sure if he loves himself. May be he doesn't at all. He once said something like he doesn't have friends by the fact he is so often away, that he feels lonely.
People close to him just want to put themselves under the "shiny umbrella" of a star...
I wonder wether he's not strongly suffering of inferiority complexes, lack of self assurance. His mom seems to have pushed him to be like the others if not better.
He's nothing/destroyed when he looses (see his outbursts when he lost a race)...
So - being afraid to "get lost" himself, he HAS to attack the others.
I had a very good friend suffering of a well hidden depression, lack of self assurance, etc.
One day she came to my house. We were talking (well, me more than she, trying to give her courage). I was doing the dishes, she was on the opposite side of the kitchen (behind me) . There was a moment when a cold freeze grabbed me and I didn't dare looking around towards her because I had the impression she was pointing a gun towards me.
3 weeks later I found her hanging on the garret.
I met her psy, told him about my -totally imaginated- fears when I was in the kitchen with her and he explained to me that hanging is the second strongest way to commit suicide (very rarely women choose it) and it is expression of an extremely high potential of agressivity that she could have directed towards others (in my opinion, it could have been her father, but he was holy to her even if he didn't love her) if she hadn't decided to direct it to herself.
Still...NO excuses for murdering Reeva!
Hi all 
Ive been reading your posts throughout the trial - but registered only recently and never posted. Thank you all for your contributions and your hard work!
I want to share an article published today - its in Afrikaans and Im posting a Google translation. It deals with the communication between OP and Edkinks and reveals a pattern: every time OP was down he contacted Edkins - also on those days he had a fight with Reeva. Edkins was the only girlfriend questioned by the Weskoppies-experts.
They also point out a weekly contact with a model, whose name they claim to know.
I have found it quite revealing - here is a (shortened) version and a link to the original article (text in bold is my emphasis):
------------------
http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2014-10-05-oscar-bel-sy-eks-kort-voor-hy-reeva-skiet
-----------------
Oscar Pistorius' Babyshoes "called just hours before his model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine shot.
She repeated contact "Babyshoes" is but one of many facts from his cell phone records that the eyebrows.
The content of Oscar's iPhone was perhaps the greatest mystery of the whole trial.
For many people it is obvious that the question of motive between the glass and metal of the phone lying.
But because the contents of the phone is largely erased, it was difficult for the investigators to the exact activities to determine.
Vodacom's statements was available. It showed what Oscar calls made and SMS sent what, although the content of the calls and messages remain a mystery.
For one reason or another is the phone statements in the trial discussed.
However, we analyzed the phone statements to figure out exactly how normal or abnormal movements she was in the hours before the shooting.
Oscar and Jenna Edkins
Oscar's first call on February 13 was an incoming call at 08:31 that lasted 12 seconds. Oscar's contacts list showing it was one of Ryan Firzt estate agency.
Also received Oscar at 08:31 a SMS to confirm his appointment later this morning at a law firm for a property deal.
Then, on the way to Johannesburg, he had his manager, Peet van Zyl, called at 09:40 and tried a banker at Rand Merchant Bank to call.
At 10:20 he "Vayvay" called.
This number is that of Vaylen Kirtley, a sports journalist.
They spent the morning of February 13 were having breakfast together at Melrose Arch. According to Kirtley was meeting a opvangsessie old friends.
He also received a brief call from one David of Nike, one of his main sponsors.
What Oscar in his testimony in court did not mention, the phone calls he made from the meeting at the law firm and his appointment with the agent.
At 12:57 he had a conversation with his friend Justin Divaris at 12:58 and had a conversation with four minutes with a model whose name is known to us.
Sony states show Oscar this model since January 1, 2013 at least once a week called.
Oscar has met its commitments and to Divaris's car dealership in Sandton drove.
Oscar call Reeva to 15:54, the last call he made before the Pretoria highway drove.
Along the way he took his brother, Carl, and sister, Aimée, and phoned each about five minutes talking.
Reeva quickly went out to buy food and she has her boyfriend phoned at 17:44. The conversation was two minutes, after which his friend Oscar Alex Pilakoutas and former rugby player Wynand Olivier called.
At 18:07 Oscar a last call from his car, and nine minutes chatting.
But to whom did he speak? He is never asked.
The person is only listed as "Babyshoes".
We checked the number and more than a dozen text messages and phone calls since January 1, 2013 between Oscar and "Babyshoes" seen. The first SMS "Babyshoes" was on New Year's Day at 03:38.
On January 11, the day that Oscar a gun go off in the Tashas restaurant, he had seven text messages to "Babyshoes" shipping.
In the afternoon of January 12 Reeva Oscar said she felt somewhat depressed. Oscar assured her he believed he had a "beautiful connection" with her.
A few hours later, he had three text messages to midnight "Babyshoes" shipping.
The afternoon of January 27 Oscar phoned her again and 400 seconds talking.
If one Oscar's phone statements are analyzed, it is clear that he does not usually long talk. A discussion of seven minutes as this one is exceptional.
Two hours after the conversation with "Babyshoes" said Oscar Reeva to a WhatsApp message sent in which she said: "I'm scared of you sometimes."
It was not the end of the contact between Oscar and "Babyshoes" no. On February 6, a day after Oscar and Reeva quarrel, it was the first person he called.
Two days later, Oscar another 12 minutes of conversation with "Babyshoes" had.
In addition to his talks with Reeva, this was the longest phone call with his iPhone had.
But was there anything significant to this day, February 8?
From data on Reeva's phone one could see the celebrity couple at the Virgin Active Awards fight. She sent a message in which she said: "I Regard myself as a lady and I did not feel like one tonight after the way you TREATED me-when we left."
It seems every time Oscar for "Babyshoes" called when a fight with his girlfriend had or were unhappy.
It's the same person he on February 13 just hours before the shooting called, although there is evidence that Oscar and Reeva same day also fight it.
An investigation revealed "Babyshoes" number corresponds with that of Jenna Edkins, Oscar's girlfriend from 2008 to 2011 Yet another ex-girlfriend, Samantha Taylor, said Jenna was prominent in the breakdown of her relationship with Oscar.
Then one must remember that Oscar and Samantha still weeks before he met Reeva, a couple was.
Oscar and Jenna Edkins
Jenna shortly after the shooting strong in his defense come.
She was the only ex-girlfriend questioned when the Oscar Weskoppies- psychiatric hospital for observation.
In this report, report exclusively obtained earlier, said its long-term relationship of four years died due to his schedule pressure.
Jenna was never questioned by police not.
Oscar and she never talks of 522 seconds with Jenna raised it.
The inevitable question is why is not the possible relevance of this discussion examines you.
We understand that the phone specialist a list of numbers to the prosecutor provided, but the number is in the name of Jenna's father registered and no one has the lines connected to the ex-girlfriend Jenna not.
Edkins did not expand the conversation.
"I do not comment on speculation, as for example that Oscar called me when he fought and Reeva or statement made Samantha.
"It is common knowledge that Oscar and I remained friends and I do not want to engage in some media coverage about this terrible situation."
The prosecution declined to comment. A source close to the defense stressed that it is not a huge revelation was not.
The defense has always consulted with Jenna and this is not the "smoking gun" that many seek.
It is clear that Oscar and Jenna a friendly relationship.
In his television room on the top floor, the police photos of a large collage of Oscar and Jenna taken.
On the back of the collage Jenna Oscar for an intimate message written to congratulate him on his 22nd birthday.
Ive been reading your posts throughout the trial - but registered only recently and never posted. Thank you all for your contributions and your hard work!
I want to share an article published today - its in Afrikaans and Im posting a Google translation. It deals with the communication between OP and Edkinks and reveals a pattern: every time OP was down he contacted Edkins - also on those days he had a fight with Reeva. Edkins was the only girlfriend questioned by the Weskoppies-experts.
They also point out a weekly contact with a model, whose name they claim to know.
I have found it quite revealing - here is a (shortened) version and a link to the original article (text in bold is my emphasis):
------------------
http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2014-10-05-oscar-bel-sy-eks-kort-voor-hy-reeva-skiet
-----------------
Oscar Pistorius' Babyshoes "called just hours before his model girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine shot.
She repeated contact "Babyshoes" is but one of many facts from his cell phone records that the eyebrows.
The content of Oscar's iPhone was perhaps the greatest mystery of the whole trial.
For many people it is obvious that the question of motive between the glass and metal of the phone lying.
But because the contents of the phone is largely erased, it was difficult for the investigators to the exact activities to determine.
Vodacom's statements was available. It showed what Oscar calls made and SMS sent what, although the content of the calls and messages remain a mystery.
For one reason or another is the phone statements in the trial discussed.
However, we analyzed the phone statements to figure out exactly how normal or abnormal movements she was in the hours before the shooting.
Oscar and Jenna Edkins
Oscar's first call on February 13 was an incoming call at 08:31 that lasted 12 seconds. Oscar's contacts list showing it was one of Ryan Firzt estate agency.
Also received Oscar at 08:31 a SMS to confirm his appointment later this morning at a law firm for a property deal.
Then, on the way to Johannesburg, he had his manager, Peet van Zyl, called at 09:40 and tried a banker at Rand Merchant Bank to call.
At 10:20 he "Vayvay" called.
This number is that of Vaylen Kirtley, a sports journalist.
They spent the morning of February 13 were having breakfast together at Melrose Arch. According to Kirtley was meeting a opvangsessie old friends.
He also received a brief call from one David of Nike, one of his main sponsors.
What Oscar in his testimony in court did not mention, the phone calls he made from the meeting at the law firm and his appointment with the agent.
At 12:57 he had a conversation with his friend Justin Divaris at 12:58 and had a conversation with four minutes with a model whose name is known to us.
Sony states show Oscar this model since January 1, 2013 at least once a week called.
Oscar has met its commitments and to Divaris's car dealership in Sandton drove.
Oscar call Reeva to 15:54, the last call he made before the Pretoria highway drove.
Along the way he took his brother, Carl, and sister, Aimée, and phoned each about five minutes talking.
Reeva quickly went out to buy food and she has her boyfriend phoned at 17:44. The conversation was two minutes, after which his friend Oscar Alex Pilakoutas and former rugby player Wynand Olivier called.
At 18:07 Oscar a last call from his car, and nine minutes chatting.
But to whom did he speak? He is never asked.
The person is only listed as "Babyshoes".
We checked the number and more than a dozen text messages and phone calls since January 1, 2013 between Oscar and "Babyshoes" seen. The first SMS "Babyshoes" was on New Year's Day at 03:38.
On January 11, the day that Oscar a gun go off in the Tashas restaurant, he had seven text messages to "Babyshoes" shipping.
In the afternoon of January 12 Reeva Oscar said she felt somewhat depressed. Oscar assured her he believed he had a "beautiful connection" with her.
A few hours later, he had three text messages to midnight "Babyshoes" shipping.
The afternoon of January 27 Oscar phoned her again and 400 seconds talking.
If one Oscar's phone statements are analyzed, it is clear that he does not usually long talk. A discussion of seven minutes as this one is exceptional.
Two hours after the conversation with "Babyshoes" said Oscar Reeva to a WhatsApp message sent in which she said: "I'm scared of you sometimes."
It was not the end of the contact between Oscar and "Babyshoes" no. On February 6, a day after Oscar and Reeva quarrel, it was the first person he called.
Two days later, Oscar another 12 minutes of conversation with "Babyshoes" had.
In addition to his talks with Reeva, this was the longest phone call with his iPhone had.
But was there anything significant to this day, February 8?
From data on Reeva's phone one could see the celebrity couple at the Virgin Active Awards fight. She sent a message in which she said: "I Regard myself as a lady and I did not feel like one tonight after the way you TREATED me-when we left."
It seems every time Oscar for "Babyshoes" called when a fight with his girlfriend had or were unhappy.
It's the same person he on February 13 just hours before the shooting called, although there is evidence that Oscar and Reeva same day also fight it.
An investigation revealed "Babyshoes" number corresponds with that of Jenna Edkins, Oscar's girlfriend from 2008 to 2011 Yet another ex-girlfriend, Samantha Taylor, said Jenna was prominent in the breakdown of her relationship with Oscar.
Then one must remember that Oscar and Samantha still weeks before he met Reeva, a couple was.
Oscar and Jenna Edkins
Jenna shortly after the shooting strong in his defense come.
She was the only ex-girlfriend questioned when the Oscar Weskoppies- psychiatric hospital for observation.
In this report, report exclusively obtained earlier, said its long-term relationship of four years died due to his schedule pressure.
Jenna was never questioned by police not.
Oscar and she never talks of 522 seconds with Jenna raised it.
The inevitable question is why is not the possible relevance of this discussion examines you.
We understand that the phone specialist a list of numbers to the prosecutor provided, but the number is in the name of Jenna's father registered and no one has the lines connected to the ex-girlfriend Jenna not.
Edkins did not expand the conversation.
"I do not comment on speculation, as for example that Oscar called me when he fought and Reeva or statement made Samantha.
"It is common knowledge that Oscar and I remained friends and I do not want to engage in some media coverage about this terrible situation."
The prosecution declined to comment. A source close to the defense stressed that it is not a huge revelation was not.
The defense has always consulted with Jenna and this is not the "smoking gun" that many seek.
It is clear that Oscar and Jenna a friendly relationship.
In his television room on the top floor, the police photos of a large collage of Oscar and Jenna taken.
On the back of the collage Jenna Oscar for an intimate message written to congratulate him on his 22nd birthday.
Hi all
I’ve been reading your posts throughout the trial - but registered only recently and never posted. Thank you all for your contributions and your hard work!
I want to share an article published today - it’s in Afrikaans and I’m posting a Google translation. It deals with the communication between OP and Edkinks and reveals a pattern: every time OP was “down” he contacted Edkins - also on those days he had a fight with Reeva. Edkins was the only girlfriend questioned by the Weskoppies-experts.
They also point out a weekly contact with a “model”, whose name they claim to know.
I have found it quite revealing - here is a (shortened) version and a link to the original article (text in bold is my emphasis):
------------------
http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2014-10-05-oscar-bel-sy-eks-kort-voor-hy-reeva-skiet
-----------------
RSBM for space
Thanks, this is excellent. I'll update my phone usage charts later this afternoon. Appears to come from the Behind The Door book by BB/MW
PrimeSuspect
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2014
- Messages
- 10,594
- Reaction score
- 19,711
:giggle:
Estelle
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2009
- Messages
- 6,727
- Reaction score
- 18,380
Who is Jenna Edkins?
Ienna is a 25yo banker who lives in Johannesburg. OP and Jenna got to know each other as their mothers were friends.
Pistorius actually started seeing Reeva while he was still with Jenna.
http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-lif...s-made-that-sealed-reeva-steenkamps-fate.html
While Jenna described him as a real gentleman, Samantha Taylor had a much different experience.
She claimed that OP is a Jeckyll and Hyde person.
Samantha spoke out about her ex-boyfriend again yesterday after he was found not-guilty on two separate murder charges. Talking to The Mirror, she said she was scared of how angry Oscar would become during his rages. "I had to hide his gun, I was so scared of him," revealed the 20-year-old student.
As well as being physically threatening, Samantha also alleges to have been mentally tormented by Oscar. According to the University student, Oscar would make her sit on a "naughty step" when he felt she had behaved badly.
Ienna is a 25yo banker who lives in Johannesburg. OP and Jenna got to know each other as their mothers were friends.
Pistorius actually started seeing Reeva while he was still with Jenna.
http://www.bestdaily.co.uk/your-lif...s-made-that-sealed-reeva-steenkamps-fate.html
While Jenna described him as a real gentleman, Samantha Taylor had a much different experience.
She claimed that OP is a Jeckyll and Hyde person.
Samantha spoke out about her ex-boyfriend again yesterday after he was found not-guilty on two separate murder charges. Talking to The Mirror, she said she was scared of how angry Oscar would become during his rages. "I had to hide his gun, I was so scared of him," revealed the 20-year-old student.
As well as being physically threatening, Samantha also alleges to have been mentally tormented by Oscar. According to the University student, Oscar would make her sit on a "naughty step" when he felt she had behaved badly.
Cherwell
Ice Cream
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2011
- Messages
- 6,476
- Reaction score
- 16,466
Handsome is as handsome does. We don't actually know what sort of person she was.
JudgeJudi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2014
- Messages
- 10,605
- Reaction score
- 31,192
Hilton Botha had 24 years experience in investigating murders. It was interesting to read on p30 that Botha had been told that OP had given Reeva mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Thats the first time Ive heard that. Botha was told by a witness that Reeva was still breathing, making a gurgling sound. There was no mention of trophies being strewn around.
Botha noticed that his hands and chest had been washed clean. Despite attempts by a low-ranking constable to intervene, Van Rensburg had allowed Oscar to rid his body of crucial evidence.
I still cant get over that. I'd been expecting to see photos of his torso covered in blood. It is crucial evidence and its unforgiveable that Van Rensburg allowed this to happen.
Gina commented that Reeva had told her, Oh my God, hes so intense, but hes amazing. She said, If I dont write back to his message within five minutes, then hes like, Where are you?
This is exactly the sort of behaviour Sam Taylors mother wrote about in her book. Sam even sent him photos of herself in a dressing gown to show OP that she was at home.
On one occasion in December 2012, the couple had a blow-up on the phone while Oscar was in Doha that led to Reeva breaking off the relationship with Oscar although they later reconciled.
Reeva traditionally spent Christmas with her parents but this Christmas told them she was spending it with OP. That never happened, no doubt because of the argument. Big argument.
Reeva and I attended a comedy evening that had been hosted by Tropika. They had an argument and Oscar had screamed at her over the phone. I could hear her talking and when she came out of her room, she was crying. I asked her what had happened. She replied that she had never been spoken to in such a disgusting manner in all her life. She also stated that she refused to be with someone who could talk to her like that. I think that was the fight that started because she sent him a photo that he said she had also sent to somebody else. When she joked about it, he went mad.
How did he know this? Had he been checking her phone? Another big argument.
"Oscar tried to call her many times that night. He even tried to call me. He did this often. Whenever they fought and she did not want to speak to him, he would call me. She asked me not to answer his calls. That night, she sent Oscar a very sincere email in which she told him it was too much for her and the way in which he spoke to her had really upset her and she would not stand for it. She told him he was an amazing person and that she wanted him to be happy but that she needed a few months to just be by herself because as much as she liked him, it was not healthy to continue like that. He replied by saying that he would wait for her and that he was really sorry.
One of the more significant rows was on 27 January, the day of Darren Frescos engagement party. Another big argument.
"YOU magazine also published details about arguments that occurred while the couple was on holiday in the Cape, while the Sunday Times reported on how the duo argued in public on their way to the parking lot, after the Virgin Active Sport Industry Awards at Emperors Palace on 7 February. Gina said, I cannot remember the exact details of the fight but she told me that Oscar just wanted her to be attached to his side the whole time and if she was not, he freaked out. This occurred that evening when they were leaving and she walked around one side of the table and he walked the other way around. He was then annoyed because she was not next to him. When she walked ahead of him, he became angry and told her people would say they were fighting. He had a fight with her and dropped her off at home. He then called her and this was the reason why they were arguing over the phone. She then said to me once again, Gi, I cannot do this.
Another big argument one week before she died.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781466846319
Masipa said relationships are highly dynamic and thus could not prove the state of the couple's happiness. Maybe this will assist her.
Botha noticed that his hands and chest had been washed clean. Despite attempts by a low-ranking constable to intervene, Van Rensburg had allowed Oscar to rid his body of crucial evidence.
I still cant get over that. I'd been expecting to see photos of his torso covered in blood. It is crucial evidence and its unforgiveable that Van Rensburg allowed this to happen.
Gina commented that Reeva had told her, Oh my God, hes so intense, but hes amazing. She said, If I dont write back to his message within five minutes, then hes like, Where are you?
This is exactly the sort of behaviour Sam Taylors mother wrote about in her book. Sam even sent him photos of herself in a dressing gown to show OP that she was at home.
On one occasion in December 2012, the couple had a blow-up on the phone while Oscar was in Doha that led to Reeva breaking off the relationship with Oscar although they later reconciled.
Reeva traditionally spent Christmas with her parents but this Christmas told them she was spending it with OP. That never happened, no doubt because of the argument. Big argument.
Reeva and I attended a comedy evening that had been hosted by Tropika. They had an argument and Oscar had screamed at her over the phone. I could hear her talking and when she came out of her room, she was crying. I asked her what had happened. She replied that she had never been spoken to in such a disgusting manner in all her life. She also stated that she refused to be with someone who could talk to her like that. I think that was the fight that started because she sent him a photo that he said she had also sent to somebody else. When she joked about it, he went mad.
How did he know this? Had he been checking her phone? Another big argument.
"Oscar tried to call her many times that night. He even tried to call me. He did this often. Whenever they fought and she did not want to speak to him, he would call me. She asked me not to answer his calls. That night, she sent Oscar a very sincere email in which she told him it was too much for her and the way in which he spoke to her had really upset her and she would not stand for it. She told him he was an amazing person and that she wanted him to be happy but that she needed a few months to just be by herself because as much as she liked him, it was not healthy to continue like that. He replied by saying that he would wait for her and that he was really sorry.
One of the more significant rows was on 27 January, the day of Darren Frescos engagement party. Another big argument.
"YOU magazine also published details about arguments that occurred while the couple was on holiday in the Cape, while the Sunday Times reported on how the duo argued in public on their way to the parking lot, after the Virgin Active Sport Industry Awards at Emperors Palace on 7 February. Gina said, I cannot remember the exact details of the fight but she told me that Oscar just wanted her to be attached to his side the whole time and if she was not, he freaked out. This occurred that evening when they were leaving and she walked around one side of the table and he walked the other way around. He was then annoyed because she was not next to him. When she walked ahead of him, he became angry and told her people would say they were fighting. He had a fight with her and dropped her off at home. He then called her and this was the reason why they were arguing over the phone. She then said to me once again, Gi, I cannot do this.
Another big argument one week before she died.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/sample/read/9781466846319
Masipa said relationships are highly dynamic and thus could not prove the state of the couple's happiness. Maybe this will assist her.
soozieqtips
Owned by a cat...
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 2,954
- Reaction score
- 0
True. Think of Ted Bundy!
~rsbm~
So that collage was in the house (in the upstairs TV room) when Reeva was there?
http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2014-10-05-oscar-bel-sy-eks-kort-voor-hy-reeva-skiet
Does anyone have a copy of the full upstairs floor plan that shows this TV Room? I can only find partial ones which shows the main bedroom and the en-suite bathroom and toilet, with the informal lounge area just outside, plus a bit of bedroom 2, and that's all .. can't seem to find the whole thing. TIA.
Interested Bystander
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2013
- Messages
- 3,638
- Reaction score
- 345
Thanks IB, but I think that is only part of the upstairs? .. there are only two bedrooms shown and I'm pretty sure there must be more than that (plus the TV room mentioned, where the collage of photos of OP and Jenna was apparently photographed by police).
Good point.
I've been pondering @Judgejudi's question to us about which friends, if any, might speak favorably of OP at sentencing.
I've only been able to come up with one possibility and that's Alex.
BBM - jj, might the informal lounge area be the TV room?
- Status