awaiting sentencing phase

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At long last I know what OP had the Security cell phone number stored as in his iPhone Contacts. It was 'Adriaan Pretorius'. I missed that Roux reads it out to Baba (from Exhibit S) when cross examining him (it was early days and I hadn't got so involved). I spent ages with Mrs Fossil squinting at a blurred screen image and we came up with 'Johan(n) Pretorius'. Close, but wrong.

So, why 'Adriaan Pretorius'? Who is he? Why not something like 'Security Silverwoods' or "Security Mobile' etc.?

This is a common name in SA but this looked like the most likely candidate from the little information given on linkedin.

Law enforcement consultant and professional
Johannesburg area
Currently a handler at AMK9 (so I’m assuming he’s a dog handler at the moment)

http://za.linkedin.com/pub/adriaan-pretorius/3/906/947


ETA I just found this guy, a physio, on twitter. He earns extra money moonlighting doing "surveys" but every single link on his many tweets on how much he's earned has been removed. There's a photo of him.

https://twitter.com/AdrianPhysio
 
Hi Allan,
Could you please share photo 55? You've mentioned it several times, and I don't know which picture it is but I am very interested.
Thank you!

Hi apples,
Photo 55 is the photo taken on the morning of the 'murder' by the state photographer showing the lights on/curtains open/balcony door/duvet on the floor/'denim on the floor.................basically everything OP said the opposite about.
This was his total guilt and Masipa and the assessors totally ignored this and threw all the investigating officers under the proverbial bus...............they should be banned immediately from having anything to do with topics of a legal nature for the rest of their lives...............total incompetence IMO and ignorant to boot.
I wouldn't let them mow my lawn after this debacle it truly is ludicrous that they could pass over evidence like this without so much as a mention.

And don't get me started on the ballistics whereby it was clearly shown to her that he changed his aim..........................and the witnesses hearing Reeva screaming for her life..............this truly beggars belief that all this was ignored and questions I hope will be asked from higher places to these imbeciles.
 
ok so Jub Jub is obviously out on bail awaiting to serve his 10year minus two sentence................is that correct or is he banged up in jail?
If he's out OP will be night clubbing by next weekend !

This whole justice system seems to .......................stink bigtime IMO

But we'll have to wait for the final 'ludicrous' finale no doubt but we'll know that by lunchtime tomorrow after a tea break/an interruption/a meeting/maybe lunch or an adjournment lol.
Same happening with the #Dewani case I see..................10 minutes talk.................half a day/full day adjournment..................amateur and ridiculous and making a mockery of the legal system and the likes of these murdering scum are using it to their advantage IMO.
Bring their trials to the UK and make Masipa and her Ilk sit in on at least 100 trials before they are allowed anywhere near judging on someones murdered daughter or #relative'.................they should be disbarred for what they have ruled on in this case without a doubt ...........................
.

Jub Jub has been in prison for the past 2 years and is still there. The 2 year reduction to his new sentence is because he's already served 2 years.

You won't know the OP sentence at lunchtime tomorrow. The mitigation phase of the trial starts tomorrow. An entire week has been set aside to hear argument regarding mitigation (as to why he should get a lesser sentence) and aggravation (as to why he should get a longer sentence). The judge will then adjourn the court to consider these arguments and will set a further date when she hands down her sentence.

The Dewani case is not the same. Dewani and the hitman were both ill.

While most are not happy with Masipa's judgment, she has been a judge for 16 years. You don't "disbar" a judge because you're unhappy with a verdict.
 
Lois Pistorius has reposted this video on twitter today. It’s the interview with Arnold in the garden. Maybe she’d like Masipa to see it ahead of tomorrow, or someone she knows tells her about it. Why is Lois reposting this again … she wants to remind everyone about poor, poor Oscar.

The fact that the entire family haven’t been on twitter for quite some time now, with the exception of the occasional one from Carl, speaks volumes.

https://twitter.com/loispistorius
 
also from that article:
"The athlete had to be locked in a room, punched tables and hurled chairs against walls"
"The athlete then began hitting tables, kicking walls and throwing furniture around as stunned officials gathered outside the door"
"It is understood that at various stages Paralympic chiefs went into the room to try to calm him down but each visit saw a fresh escalation of his hysterical reaction"

13th/14th february has all the signs of escalation.
hysterical seems a good description. 2012 they say lasted 2hrs - this one started at 1:56 and lasted for 1hour 20mins.
we also have locked doors [x2]
we also have something thrown - against the bath; and hurled against the door - cricket bat.
we also have kicking doors.
we also have barging doors.

you could very well be right about op being the source of the earlier one-sided argument... and - as here, with the officials - reeva periodically 'going into the room to try to calm him down'.

Your explanation makes perfect sense to me. Pity Nel didn't or couldn't argue this.
 
Lois Pistorius has reposted this video on twitter today. It’s the interview with Arnold in the garden. Maybe she’d like Masipa to see it ahead of tomorrow, or someone she knows tells her about it. Why is Lois reposting this again … she wants to remind everyone about poor, poor Oscar.

The fact that the entire family haven’t been on twitter for quite some time now, with the exception of the occasional one from Carl, speaks volumes.

https://twitter.com/loispistorius

Uggggh....that whole family makes me :mad:

"How is Oscar holding up?"

Who flipping cares how "Oscar" is holding up? If "Oscar" had an ounce of decency, none of this would have happened.

All this stuff about "losing a loved one" and how he'll never get over it. :mad: :mad:

How dare they? Losing someone to cancer, illness or in a car accident is "losing a loved one". Not shooting them in the head because they opened a window at night.

Disgusting man with a disgusting, sinister family.
 
try this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s50iIMl2S14
about 50 seconds in...

note the commentary that if op had continued with his previous heat times, he would have won. so, could the fault have been his own?
you could argue that the other guy's blades were not a problem until he dipped form in the final.

THANKS! This is exactly what I was looking for.

Watching that race a few times, it looks to me like Oscar was cocky, assumed he was going to win and so held back/slowed down near to but before he crossed the finish line.

I feel so bad for Oliveras:

1. Oscar's pissy attitude detracted from his win
2. Oscar had been a huge role model for him. I think he would have hoped Oscar would have been proud of him, on some level. Beyond OP being a jerk about his loss, it's a tough thing when champs become former champs as the younger guys move up and the older guys plateau or lose. The "changing of the guard," so to speak. None like to lose or face that but doing so gracefully is the only way to go.
 
Reeva, trapped in a 1.4 x 1.14 metre box. (4.6 ft x 3.7ft)

It genuinely was like shooting fish in a barrel.

IMHO, the only reason bullet “B” missed was because Reeva shifted position(s) as she was falling down and hysterically screaming.

Masipa would have changed her tune had she physically gone to the crime scene and stood in that dark toilet, the door closed and locked.

Would she have cared to put her sage judicial reasoning to the test - Oscar could never have foreseen that four Black Talons through that door wouldn’t necessarily hit/kill who’s behind it?

Somehow I think she’d be screaming to escape before the test began.

Sometimes you just gotta step into another person’s shoes to see harsh reality.

Masipa is like Alice in Wonderland - she’s ensnared in Magical OscarWorld.


Somehow, I don't think anything would have changed at all.
 
Lois Pistorius has reposted this video on twitter today. It’s the interview with Arnold in the garden. Maybe she’d like Masipa to see it ahead of tomorrow, or someone she knows tells her about it. Why is Lois reposting this again … she wants to remind everyone about poor, poor Oscar.

The fact that the entire family haven’t been on twitter for quite some time now, with the exception of the occasional one from Carl, speaks volumes.

https://twitter.com/loispistorius


I'm feel certain that everything is calculated for effect. Isn't that what a PR person does? Figure out what to do and when?
 
Jub Jub has been in prison for the past 2 years and is still there. The 2 year reduction to his new sentence is because he's already served 2 years.

You won't know the OP sentence at lunchtime tomorrow. The mitigation phase of the trial starts tomorrow. An entire week has been set aside to hear argument regarding mitigation (as to why he should get a lesser sentence) and aggravation (as to why he should get a longer sentence). The judge will then adjourn the court to consider these arguments and will set a further date when she hands down her sentence.

The Dewani case is not the same. Dewani and the hitman were both ill.

While most are not happy with Masipa's judgment, she has been a judge for 16 years. You don't "disbar" a judge because you're unhappy with a verdict.

While I am very unhappy with the verdict, the problem for me is that her verdict is illogical and nonsensical. Masipa said some really off the wall stuff in that verdict. I could probably find examples of that but I've never gone back and read it, again. I'd just get upset all over again.

While many, if not most of the people following this on WS aren't lawyers, given a month to bone up on SA law, etc., there are MANY folks here who could have come up with a much more logical - and dare I say, just - verdict than Masipa did -- based on law AND fact.

I think her verdict was incompetent. I'm not sure she should be disbarred, nor would she be as professionals protect their own. Maybe a referral for a mental health eval. and a forensic investigation of her bank account(s) - in SA and off-shore, as well as following the trail of the "lost" rhino horns. The timing of that "burglary" is too precious for words.

But that's just me.
 
When Dick Cheney ( former US VP?, well something or other) went walking around, people just shouted out obscenities to him. If I lived in SA, I have visions of myself doing something similar - losing complete control and going off on Masipa, yelling and ranting at her, if our paths ever crossed.

That's so weird because I never yell at anyone or even get very upset.


I wonder, if I was Reeva's mom, whether I would take the stand and testify about his sentencing. I might have a different plan -- to reclaim my power and Reeva's, too, as her proxy. Just like Reeva most certainly stood up to OP and gave him a piece of her mind, s Reeva's mom I'd do the same to Masipa.

I might sit down up there in the witness box, stare straight at her with steely eyes for a long time - longer than comfortable so everyone would wonder what was going on -- then I'd slowly get up and tell her the whole thing was a mockery, which I refused to dignify any longer with my presence.

I would tell her that participating any further in the farce would be co-signing her bu!!sh#t, and I refused to do it. Then everyone on my side/Reeva's side would get up and we'd all walk out.

Just as I'm going to hate seeing Oscar's sneers and smirking tomorrow morning, now I'm also going to hate seeing Masipa flashing her sickly-sweet smile at the Pistorius clan, at Oscar, at ANYONE - and hearing her soft, saccharine, voice of betrayal.

Maybe I'll surprise myself and, instead, feel pity for her. Whatever I feel it won't have anything in common with how I felt about her before the verdict. That I know. (I'm nervous to see Nel, again, too, but for wholly different reasons.)
 
Could it be that OP threw the jeans out of the bathroom window during one of his upstairs trips to deliver something in the pocket to sb from the family or Frank ? Frank could get to the backyard from any backdoor without anyone noticing I guess ? I read this in a comment somewhere and sounded me plausible.. Any thoughts?
 
When Dick Cheney ( former US VP?, well something or other) went walking around, people just shouted out obscenities to him. If I lived in SA, I have visions of myself doing something similar - losing complete control and going off on Masipa, yelling and ranting at her, if our paths ever crossed.

That's so weird because I never yell at anyone or even get very upset.


I wonder, if I was Reeva's mom, whether I would take the stand and testify about his sentencing. I might have a different plan -- to reclaim my power and Reeva's, too, as her proxy. Just like Reeva most certainly stood up to OP and gave him a piece of her mind, s Reeva's mom I'd do the same to Masipa.

I might sit down up there in the witness box, stare straight at her with steely eyes for a long time - longer than comfortable so everyone would wonder what was going on -- then I'd slowly get up and tell her the whole thing was a mockery, which I refused to dignify any longer with my presence.

I would tell her that participating any further in the farce would be co-signing her bu!!sh#t, and I refused to do it. Then everyone on my side/Reeva's side would get up and we'd all walk out.

Just as I'm going to hate seeing Oscar's sneers and smirking tomorrow morning, now I'm also going to hate seeing Masipa flashing her sickly-sweet smile at the Pistorius clan, at Oscar, at ANYONE - and hearing her soft, saccharine, voice of betrayal.

Maybe I'll surprise myself and, instead, feel pity for her. Whatever I feel it won't have anything in common with how I felt about her before the verdict. That I know. (I'm nervous to see Nel, again, too, but for wholly different reasons.)

I am nervous to see Nel again too. Masipa's verdict and reasoning for it, must have felt like a stab in the back to him. I hope he has fully recovered by now and feels empowered and well-prepared to present strong aggravating factors with specially chosen witnesses as well as to strongly cross examine the witnesses who present mitigating factors. And whatever happens, lodges a swift appeal on the culpable murder verdict on points of law. Don't give up, Nel! Fight on!
 
Lois Pistorius has reposted this video on twitter today. It’s the interview with Arnold in the garden. Maybe she’d like Masipa to see it ahead of tomorrow, or someone she knows tells her about it. Why is Lois reposting this again … she wants to remind everyone about poor, poor Oscar.

The fact that the entire family haven’t been on twitter for quite some time now, with the exception of the occasional one from Carl, speaks volumes.

https://twitter.com/loispistorius

Oscar Pistorius’ aunt asked prosecutor Gerrie Nel if he “was not ashamed” of the Paralympian’s murder trial in the high court in Pretoria.

Lois Pistorius glowered at Nel yesterday and asked in Afrikaans: “Kry jy nie skaam nie? (Aren’t you ashamed?)

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/ashamed-oscars-aunt-gerrie-nel/

This is one disgusting family!
 
Could it be that OP threw the jeans out of the bathroom window during one of his upstairs trips to deliver something in the pocket to sb from the family or Frank ? Frank could get to the backyard from any backdoor without anyone noticing I guess ? I read this in a comment somewhere and sounded me plausible.. Any thoughts?

I am wondering whether OP could have put a note and cash in the pocket to tell Frank to keep quiet.
 
Hello dear websleuthers, this is my first post here.

I am in no way a "Pistorian" I don't even like the guy, I find him very egoistic, shallow and generally unsympathetic.
But I believe in the saying that justice should be blind and without emotion/speculation.
I followed the whole trial (watched it all on youtube, some parts more often than one time) and spent the last months reading here and at DS (often hours of reading, this case fascinates me).
What I want to say is I try to look at the whole thing very objectivley, and sofar nearly nothing proves that Pistorius killed her knowingly/intentionnaly.
With maybe 2 exceptions: The duvet/jeans/blood trail/fan thing and the witnesses who say they heard intermingled voices of a man and woman.
But even for those two one could find explanations, maybe not absolutley reasonable ones, but still explanations that would work.

Anyway the reason for my post is, I recently watched a crime documentary on youtube about a man accused of killing his wife, and his call to 911 was recorded and I have to say imo this man does indeed sound like a woman when he screams in his panic - so it IS possible that the whole Oscar = female screams could be very well true.

I just wanted to share this with you, because I have read here SO often that many are totally firm in their opinion that no man could ever scream like a panicked or terrified woman and that the female screams heard therefore MUST be Reeva and that is the main reason why they believe OP is 100% guilty.
Imo this is not true, men can scream in the most high pitched and unrecognisable ways especially (if not only) in such a horrifying situation, but because it does not happen so often in such a way we are not used to it and therefore many people will not believe it.
When the trial started I didn't believe it too btw, and I thought Roux was joking when he said it was OP screaming.
But since then I changed my mind about that, it can be true that it was him.

Here is the video-link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMy-nQT63tA
or you can search it on youtube: Lina's Heart HD
go to around 1:30, the 911 call is in the beginning of the video.

Interestingly the man got not convicted for murder - imo the right decision, there was no evidence that he had anything to do with it.
Another interesting thing about it: he found his wife also in the bathroom/toilet and there is even a magazine rack that plays a part too in this case.

Sorry btw for my maybe bad english - it is not my first language.
I will continue reading here, I just wish there would be more balance between people that 100% believe he did it intentionally and people who still have their doubts if or if not he is this cold-blooded killer many if not most here see in him (maybe a better word is hot-blooded? most here seem to think he did not plan this days before or so, it was because of his rage in their opinion that he killed her).
As for me: I am sadly really still undecided if he is guilty of Murder1, I wish I could be sure, but I am not, and as long I am not 100% sure with 100% damning evidence I will say Masipa's judgement was correct that it was not Murder1.
Dolus Eventualis is another question, I am not sure if her decision was right not to convict him of that.

One last thing: could you live with the fact that if you are wrong in your believe that he is 100% guilty and it later turns out with proof it happened as he said?
(and I know he changed his story in some ways - but for me this is no reason to think he is a murderer, many innocent people do that to make themselves look better, and he is no "good" person generally imo, he just is no (proven) murderer!)
Could you live with it that your prejudice/your firm opinion would send a man away for life in prison or even the death penalty if you were a judge or juror in such a case?
(I know this is not the case now with OP, but speaking generally)
I know I could not!
 
I am wondering whether OP could have put a note and cash in the pocket to tell Frank to keep quiet.

Whilst I think OP would've been quick thinking enough to come up with the intruder theory, I seriously don't think that he would've been doing something like that within minutes/seconds of the shooting .. I think we need to stick with 'probables' rather than far-fetchedness, to be honest. In any case, if anything had been found in the pockets of those jeans .. a note from OP or something like that .. then he would've been found out. Nope, there wouldn't have been anything in those jeans pockets, imo.
 
Hello dear websleuthers, this is my first post here.

I am in no way a "Pistorian" I don't even like the guy, I find him very egoistic, shallow and generally unsympathetic.
But I believe in the saying that justice should be blind and without emotion/speculation.
I followed the whole trial (watched it all on youtube, some parts more often than one time) and spent the last months reading here and at DS (often hours of reading, this case fascinates me).
What I want to say is I try to look at the whole thing very objectivley, and sofar nearly nothing proves that Pistorius killed her knowingly/intentionnaly.
With maybe 2 exceptions: The duvet/jeans/blood trail/fan thing and the witnesses who say they heard intermingled voices of a man and woman.
But even for those two one could find explanations, maybe not absolutley reasonable ones, but still explanations that would work.

Anyway the reason for my post is, I recently watched a crime documentary on youtube about a man accused of killing his wife, and his call to 911 was recorded and I have to say imo this man does indeed sound like a woman when he screams in his panic - so it IS possible that the whole Oscar = female screams could be very well true.

I just wanted to share this with you, because I have read here SO often that many are totally firm in their opinion that no man could ever scream like a panicked or terrified woman and that the female screams heard therefore MUST be Reeva and that is the main reason why they believe OP is 100% guilty.
Imo this is not true, men can scream in the most high pitched and unrecognisable ways especially (if not only) in such a horrifying situation, but because it does not happen so often in such a way we are not used to it and therefore many people will not believe it.
When the trial started I didn't believe it too btw, and I thought Roux was joking when he said it was OP screaming.
But since then I changed my mind about that, it can be true that it was him.

Here is the video-link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMy-nQT63tA
or you can search it on youtube: Lina's Heart HD
go to around 1:30, the 911 call is in the beginning of the video.

Interestingly the man got not convicted for murder - imo the right decision, there was no evidence that he had anything to do with it.
Another interesting thing about it: he found his wife also in the bathroom/toilet and there is even a magazine rack that plays a part too in this case.

Sorry btw for my maybe bad english - it is not my first language.
I will continue reading here, I just wish there would be more balance between people that 100% believe he did it intentionally and people who still have their doubts if or if not he is this cold-blooded killer many if not most here see in him (maybe a better word is hot-blooded? most here seem to think he did not plan this days before or so, it was because of his rage in their opinion that he killed her).

That sounds like a man to me.

If Pistorius can sound like a woman, why did he fail to demonstrate that? Would have been the easiest thing in the world. He didn't because he can't.

A few other things regarding screaming - isn't it just the most remarkable coincidence that everyone who heard screaming not only said it was female, but they all also heard a male voice at the same time.

While conversely, everyone who heard crying heard ONE person, and it was male*

Too neat to be a coincidence.

Welcome, btw. Your English is very good.

* Except Mrs VDM.
 
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