awaiting sentencing phase

[cottonweaver]

Apropos OP's friends and associates. Lisa's blog (Juror13) has some interesting posts by people who seem to know the circles he moves in. This cannot be proved, of course, but worthy of a few minutes of your time to read what they had to say.

These are the relevant dates and posting times:

Miktal - 8/26/14 @ 2:30pm
Miktal - 8/27/14 @ 7:54am
Jakes - 8/29/14 @ 2:59pm

Thank you Lisa for your help.

Thanks Bystander

interesting allegations from Miktal - 8/26/14 @ 2:30pm, so I'll post part in case anyone else is interested :
......"Just want to pass on a little bit of knowledge I`ve learned about the trial. From a very reliable source but will still refer to their comments as alleged.
The defence allegedly offered a plea of Culpable Homicide before the trial started, but Nel rejected it. No doubt this “plea” involved a gentle slap on the wrists for OP.
Allegedly, those who move in OP circles, all believe he lost his temper with Reeva and shot her, no one buys his intruder story as they are well aware of his temper. Possibly the reason why only family are there to support him.
The VIP room incident is allegedly true, he did instigate the argument while drunk. The owner does have the security tapes,but doesn’t want to give them up. Possible gold dust after the trial methinks?
Also, the reason OP called Divaris the night he shot Reeva, was to allegedly ask for certain “help” dealing with the situation using his “connections”, but JD refused. He was not happy at all that OP even called him and got him involved....." Miktal

Just on the JGreenland audio, he confirms what we have already heard from legal experts, particularly important parts about inevitable appeal but Court of Appeal can't interfere with the sentence:


Basically he says it won't change the sentence Masipa gives him on Oct 13th. Only way that can happen is .." in the unlikely event JM gives a meaningful sentence " and thus OP "on the horns of a dilemma" appeals that given sentence, State cross-appeals on basis of corrected verdict of dolus eventualis and then Appeal court could increase sentence

Apologies for somewhat garbled summary by me ! It's approx 42.20 mins into audio 1

 

[cottonweaver]

RSBM

just more info to back you up.


In September 2009, Ms Taylor-Memmory attended a party at Pistorius's house, invited as a friend of his then-girlfriend whom he was with before he met Reeva Steenkamp.
After Pistorius and his partner got into a fight, all her friends were asked to leave by the Paralympian 'using vulgar language', the blogger told Eyewitness News.

Sounds familiar hey.......... something along lines of " Get the *advertiser censored* out of my house?!!!!":thinking:

 

[Estelle]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119561/photo-oscar-pistorius-reaction-murder-trial-verdict

 

[jay-jay]

Sorry folks, but I can't make out a phone in his left pocket in the photo posted .. just his hands, in both pockets, that's all I can see :-/

 

[Interested Bystander]

OP’s aunt Micki, the criminal profiler, was at OP’s bail hearing most days but has not been heard of in the press since. I am surprised that Uncle A has not pressured her into supporting OP’s please UNLESS she knows better and has chosen to disappear from view.

Anyone think her lack of comment is indicative that may think OP is guilty or is that too big a leap? If she believed him not to be guilty I cannot help thinking her views would have been published. As far as I can ascertain she no longer works for the Police Department and therefore there would be no restrictions there IMO.

Though the surname is Pistorius I cannot ascertain whether this is her family name or her ex husband’s surname. Often scientists/professionals keep the name appearing in their published works so maybe she is a true Pistorius. Anybody know?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...condone-serial-killers-I-understand-them.html

“She regularly attended court with the rest of the Pistorius family during his bail hearing last week, but has not made any public comment about his case as yet.”


EDIT She would not have given an opinion if she is definitely a blood relative.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/973...nned-from-track-for-life-olympic-legend-says/

"There is a possibility that some sort of ban is included in the judge’s ruling."

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Sorry folks, but I can't make out a phone in his left pocket in the photo posted .. just his hands, in both pockets, that's all I can see :-/

In his trackie pants pocket jj

 

[Estelle]

snipped>>

Just on the JGreenland audio, he confirms what we have already heard from legal experts, particularly important parts about inevitable appeal but Court of Appeal can't interfere with the sentence:

Basically he says it won't change the sentence Masipa gives him on Oct 13th. Only way that can happen is .." in the unlikely event JM gives a meaningful sentence " and thus OP "on the horns of a dilemma" appeals that given sentence, State cross-appeals on basis of corrected verdict of dolus eventualis and then Appeal court could increase sentence>"

On that basis then, I hope Masipa comes to her senses and sentences him to 15 years, he then appeals and the State does a cross-appeal, the verdict is corrected to guilty of murder and the sentence is increased to 25 years.

 

[RosieC]

~rsbm~

.. can't say I blame them, there's not really much point being there for a sentencing hearing for a verdict with which they (and many others of us) believe to be completely incorrect.

Going back to what they were saying on the TV interview about now wanting/being ready to speak privately with OP (I personally think they would be wasting their energy, but obv. realised why they feel the need to do it), I wouldn't mind betting that once this whole trial is over and he is free to do whatever he wants, he will not be in the least bit interested in meeting with them and that he was only saying he wanted to earlier in the trial because it was all part of his manipulation of it. He has no need to meet with them once it's all over and seeing as, for him, everything he does is about him, he won't be interested .. in fact, he will absolutely not want to meet them because he won't be able to hide it from them what really happened that night, they will see it in his eyes .. he's too much of a coward for them to see that.

Thanks, jay-jay. I can't say I blame them either. But the only hope for the truth and at least some justice to emerge is civil action, and if the Steenkamps don't want to set foot in a courtroom, that won't happen, and any sense of what really happened that night will have died with Reeva. But that is their decision to respect.

Appeal can only be on a matter of Law, and that is if there is a way around manslaughter as a competent verdict. Masipa's rejection of dolus eventualis is only the tip of the iceberg of what went wrong.

I expect Oscar's representatives will want to meet with the Steenkamps, and perhaps Oscar too, with a private heart-felt apology. But that would be for an out-of-court settlement.

I feel very sorry for the state's ear witnesses. They testified with great integrity. Ear witness evidence will never match perfectly, but in the circumstances I found their testimony very powerful. Ms Burger's privacy was violated, they were all rubbished in devious (unconvincing I thought) cross examination (but that is Roux's job). But the final insult was their evidence was totally dismissed for no convincing reason, or as Barry Bateman would say, "razor sharp" thinking.

 

[Cherwell]

Here is Labuschagne leaving with Arnold and Oscar after his arrest. He was often seen sitting behind Nel during the trial, right?

http://www.travelsworlds.com/oscar-...d-after-the-killing-of-his-girlfriend-qhckabn

View attachment 60079

If the black guy is Labuschagne, then I think we can conclude that he isn't related to the Pistorius family.

I do wish Cape Town Crim would post again, she has personal knowledge of all these people. And Barnacle too, he was very informative.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry folks, but I can't make out a phone in his left pocket in the photo posted .. just his hands, in both pockets, that's all I can see :-/

Does this help?

 

[Cherwell]

I don't believe it is reasonable to believe in this sequence of events.

1. Pistorius grabbed his gun under the bed, yet could not confirm Reeva was on the bed, when he would be right next to her
2. I do not believe any reasonable person would hear a sound in the bathroom and not consider it is the person sleeping over
3. I do not believe Reeva would be at the door of the toilet rather then sitting on the toilet, unless she was in fact talking/arguing with Pistorius, because usually you go to the toilet to use the toilet, not the door, on the other side.
4. I do not believe Pistorius could aim so well, in such a sequence, first knowingly being able to hit Reeva at the position of the door, which requires knowing she was at the door, instead of the toilet, then adjusting his aim to shoot at her fallen body which then fell on the toilet, instead of simply backwards from the door.

Another possibility is that Reeva was standing at the door, gripping the handle to hold the door shut.

Remember there is NO evidence (other than Pistorius' word) that the door was locked. There may not have been a key in the lock, hence no means of locking it.
It was his private en-suite toilet, not one for general use by visitors.

 

[Interested Bystander]

If the black guy is Labuschagne, then I think we can conclude that he isn't related to the Pistorius family.

I do wish Cape Town Crim would post again, she has personal knowledge of all these people. And Barnacle too, he was very informative.

He is white. Here is what I imagine is a fairly old photo of him but I could be wrong.

http://www.ia-ip.org/index.php?page=91

 

[K.T]

The sentence would be changed accordingly, as set out in s322(1)(b) of the Criminal Procedure Act: "In the case of an appeal against a conviction or of any question of law reserved, the court of appeal may give such judgment as ought to have been given at the trial or impose such punishment as ought to have been imposed at the trial"

The prosecution also has the right to appeal the sentence independently under s316B.

Extremely important issue Pandax81, thank you for noting the relevant sections. Appeal's court can change judgement and sentencing. Also, both defence and state can appeal sentence independently.

Lisa, thank you, that was an riveting, textured interview with Judge Greenland.
Could you or someone else message the J.Greenland that he is incorrect on those two points about the appeal sentencing? It would be a great shame, in such a fascinating and informative interview, if there is further legal confusion about sentencing appeals. Than you may edit in any corrections before transcribing, as update or insertion.

More soon about points from the interview and context of SA judiciary.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2014-04-14-sielkundige-hofstryd-woed-agter-skerms

Sielkundige hofstryd woed agter skerms

Independent of the struggle between Adv. Gerrie Nel and Oscar Pistorius is also an effort by psychologists in the various legal camps each other to outperform.

One is aiming for the lemnaeler standing to hold the other to him to break.

Since Pistorius to witness, Brigadier. Gerard Labuschagne, head of the police investigation unit psychologist and co-worker Maj. Bronwyn Stollarz attended every court session.

Their job is to advise and Nel Pistorius's every move and response analysis, sources close to the case and the court. "Although he is sharp, Gerry can not all see it."

Pistorius's own psychological, Lora Hartzenberg was since the beginning of his testimony in court and gave him after his initial collapse advised not to Nel, but rather stared at Judge Thokozile Masipa to watch, according to a source.

Hartzenberg Pistorius yesterday comforted when he was about to crying that the court adjourned.

"Pistorius is tired and sleeping clearly not good. This is where Gerry might be a breakthrough can be made. "

This is from google translator Africaans/English.
There is a topical pic of Labuschagne.

 

[AJ_DS]

I don't believe OP left with his phone 0020 when he was arrested…

If he had the phone on him it would have been seized during processing at police station

OP remained in police custody until the conclusion of the bail hearing

Roux stated at the bail hearing that the Defence was in possession of the 0020 phone

The 0020 phone was surrendered by Defence to the State at the bail hearing

 

[homegirl]

Fantastic work on the animation. Important to see, please try to sync with gun shots and his body actions if you have time.

Certainly seems better than the 1990's low level (defense paid) animation work from the 'The Evidence Room', seen on Channel Seven. They didn't even attempt any serious detailed recreation of his version/s.

Thanks KT. I derived the beginning and end firing positions from the Evidence room video. He must have described his movements to them. I do remember OP saying that he took a few steps back while firing but there was not much detail discussed in court. The best that I could do is to have the OP figure stop in three spots, as he backs up, indicating the separate shots and I would simply be replicating the firing positions from the video. Maybe I'll give it a try.

What I was trying to show, is that the bullets would have to be capable of going through the wall (by the sinks) to match the bullet trajectories. We all know that OP wouldn't risk a ricochet by firing at the wall. The ER video demonstrates this surprisingly well. Since my animation is an attempt to show what actually happened to Reeva, OP really should be positioned where he fired from in reality.

The Evidence room did a good job with some things. The structure, itself, is very well done. The lighting and camera work is good. That bit where they walked from the bathroom to the stairs, matching their stills to the police photos, was quite good I thought. To be fair to them, we may not have seen the entire video. It was probably not in it's finished state, and OP screwed them up royally by changing so many details during his testimony. Maybe OP told them multiple, conflicting stories like he did in court. He may have been vague and have experienced some convenient memory lapses. They couldn't recreate some of the things in OP's version(s) because they are lies and they don't work. IMO

I too, was unimpressed with the poor job they did with the figure and the props, and I was surprised that they used those crummy mannequins. I think that they are free ones which come with a 3D software program. That program is better than the one I use, but is not a professional animation program. I read that they charge between 10 and 20 thousand dollars to create an animation. You would think that they could invest in some good software.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I don't believe OP left with his phone 0020 when he was arrested…

If he had the phone on him it would have been seized during processing at police station

OP remained in police custody until the conclusion of the bail hearing

Roux stated at the bail hearing that the Defence was in possession of the 0020 phone

The 0020 phone was surrendered by Defence to the State at the bail hearing

I cannot imagine OP being without some sort of communication but I agree it could not possibly have been 0020. Any chance he did a swap with one of his family? OTOH it could be a narrow wallet, a folded handkerchief, a key case, or something else equally innocent.

 

[K.T]

Slightly OT: Here's a documentary about 'Tortured Souls - Murder in Africa', featuring both Brigadier Labuschagne (that appears to be him escorting hooded Pistorius post shooting) and Aunt Micki Pistorius. The documentary is, to put it kindly, a hot mess imo

Seems to be made by a melodramatic producer combining true crime fanfiction and public service announcement. Micki Pistorius commentary does not seem to raise the level of discussion. She talks emphatically about 'souls' - I fear the critical science level is akin to astrology. Labuschagne takes a rationalist approach, fortunately. Though I see in his biography that he was a clinician at Weskoppies...oh.

Remember, Weskoppies' head of psychology Dr Scholtz's report was just problematic - not interviewing and/or ignoring the most important previous relationship and testimony of Sam Taylor, general writing and conclusions were old-fashioned, over arching conclusions without evidence or qualifiers, mistakes in citations. I like to think that Scholtz was influenced on an individual level by a subjective view of the case and that the psychiatrists at Weskoppies would have a more advanced analytical approach but sometimes I wonder...

Murder documentary: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uaO6jDthfyM

 

[Mr Fossil]

I don't believe OP left with his phone 0020 when he was arrested…

If he had the phone on him it would have been seized during processing at police station

OP remained in police custody until the conclusion of the bail hearing

Roux stated at the bail hearing that the Defence was in possession of the 0020 phone

The 0020 phone was surrendered by Defence to the State at the bail hearing

BIB1 Nor do I. I'm convinced someone else was complicit in removing it.

BIB2 Pedantically it wasn't surrendered at the bail hearing: on 19 Feb Roux said the Defence had it but it wasn't handed over to the police until 25 Feb (and then to Moller on 26 Feb).