AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe, 15 Jun 2013 - #8

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Or DNA from Bone marrow IMO. The time it takes to get the results typically depends upon the lab it is sent to. That is probably why they sent her remains to Tucson. IMO.

It is strange the vultures were over her body also 2 weeks after the flooding.

Foreign DNA? Well I think her clothes would have helped with that but no sign of her belongings from all reports.

Bone marrow only stays alive for five days after death. It needs a blood supply to be 'viable', the word used in the science report.

Based on gngr~snap's posts and the fact that LE searched the whole area after finding A's remains, what if LE did find additional evidence? They may have found pieces of tape or rope, clothing items and or, what else?
Don't give up hope.

It dawns on me that Mr. Salinas believes in prayer as I saw video of him gathering his family and friends around to pray for Adrienne's return. Of course he wanted an alive Adrienne. Still, she was returned. So, everyone who believes in prayer keep praying that God in the name of Jesus will reveal the rest of the story. If two people ask in my name -
 
P.s. to those who had posted about the abduction attempt on the 16 year old near apache junction in late August...


Michael Wiseman is wanted by the Scottsdale PD and is an unregistered sex offender. He has fled the country to Spain before, but was extradited back to AZ. He matches almost to a T what the kidnappers description was in the case of the 16 year old that escaped abduction.

"WANTED for SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF A MINOR (10 counts), UNREGISTERED SEX OFFENDER, and PROBATION VIOLATION: In February 2008, Wiseman was arrested for 10 counts of Sexual Exploitation of a Minor and was arrested. In November 2008, Wiseman cut off his ankle monitoring device and fled the country. In early 2009 a Google search by an employer in Spain found Wiseman listed as Wanted by Scottsdale PD (on this website) and ultimately led to his extradition back to Arizona. On April 1, 2013 Wiseman absconded again. Wiseman has been employed as a private pilot and will probably seek out jobs in the aviation industry. Wiseman considers himself a US and Polish citizen and may have fled the country again. There is an active warrant out of Maricopa County Superior Court for Wiseman."

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/Page2522.aspx

"Police are also looking for 38-year-old Michael Wiseman. He is wanted for violating probation after a conviction for child sex crimes. Wiseman is described as 5'9" tall and weighs 150 pounds. Wiseman has blonde hair and blue eyes."

http://www.kpho.com/story/23258982/manhunt-monday-police-hunt-for-2-kidnapping-suspects
 
P.s. to those who had posted about the abduction attempt on the 16 year old near apache junction in late August...


Michael Wiseman is wanted by the Scottsdale PD and is an unregistered sex offender. He has fled the country to Spain before, but was extradited back to AZ. He matches almost to a T what the kidnappers description was in the case of the 16 year old that escaped abduction.

"WANTED for SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF A MINOR (10 counts), UNREGISTERED SEX OFFENDER, and PROBATION VIOLATION: In February 2008, Wiseman was arrested for 10 counts of Sexual Exploitation of a Minor and was arrested. In November 2008, Wiseman cut off his ankle monitoring device and fled the country. In early 2009 a Google search by an employer in Spain found Wiseman listed as Wanted by Scottsdale PD (on this website) and ultimately led to his extradition back to Arizona. On April 1, 2013 Wiseman absconded again. Wiseman has been employed as a private pilot and will probably seek out jobs in the aviation industry. Wiseman considers himself a US and Polish citizen and may have fled the country again. There is an active warrant out of Maricopa County Superior Court for Wiseman."

http://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/Page2522.aspx

"Police are also looking for 38-year-old Michael Wiseman. He is wanted for violating probation after a conviction for child sex crimes. Wiseman is described as 5'9" tall and weighs 150 pounds. Wiseman has blonde hair and blue eyes."

http://www.kpho.com/story/23258982/manhunt-monday-police-hunt-for-2-kidnapping-suspects

He absconded again. Well, what wasn't predictable about that - ugh!
Our system is uncanny sometimes, ain't it?
 
As I try to show scientifically in my post above, if vultures were present after fifty days, then Adrienne was either murdered at a much later date or there were no vultures present. That is, unless someone can offer another explanation. I'm surely not a verified scientist - lol!

My understanding is that the stages of decomp are regardless of whether a person has been buried or not. That's why the range of days for each stage are given. The process is going to happen after we die regardless (unless we are cremated). If I'm wrong, I welcome correction with explanation.

Think about the drying process of flowers in sand. A huge difference from being buried in soil. Pretty warm to hot sand with a zero moisture %. Like putting fruit in a dehydrator. If the remains are buried deep enough, I'll toss out 4 feet, which I know will not emit decomp smell for a very young horse or mature goat, the smell of decomp is filtered as it goes to the surface or travels downward...no smell, no buzzards.
There was a range heifer that died the last week in May just off a dirt road we take through State Land. About 5 days ago, my son and I took one of the 4x4's out to trouble shoot an ignition problem. Well, there it was, what was left of the heifer. She was out on the dirt originally, (the rains have brought the vegetation up) no rain til July 3rd, and not much that 1st week, and then random, on, off since and one gully washer about a week ago that moved her a bit, maybe about 20 feet. The area where she originally went down is flat and when the flooding hits it, it disperses to a width of about 100 feet, usually at a 2" height.
What was left was a very dry thick hide, encasing the bones of the rib cage, spine, neck, and hips. The head was gone, except for the lower jaw, all the legs and tail were gone. There were a few scattered bones trailing out to a coyote den, but other then that, what bones remained were tightly held by the dried hide, still with hair attached. That's typical for decomposition of a large mammal (apprx. 150 lbs) out in the desert, exposed to the elements. We have very similar temps during May, June, and part of July as Apache Junction has, the altitude is just higher. Any other time of the year, we have +/-20 degrees cooler than the general Phoenix area.
Does that help a bit?
 
Think about the drying process of flowers in sand. A huge difference from being buried in soil. Pretty warm to hot sand with a zero moisture %. Like putting fruit in a dehydrator. If the remains are buried deep enough, I'll toss out 4 feet, which I know will not emit decomp smell for a very young horse or mature goat, the smell of decomp is filtered as it goes to the surface or travels downward...no smell, no buzzards.
There was a range heifer that died the last week in May just off a dirt road we take through State Land. About 5 days ago, my son and I took one of the 4x4's out to trouble shoot an ignition problem. Well, there it was, what was left of the heifer. She was out on the dirt originally, (the rains have brought the vegetation up) no rain til July 3rd, and not much that 1st week, and then random, on, off since and one gully washer about a week ago that moved her a bit, maybe about 20 feet. The area where she originally went down is flat and when the flooding hits it, it disperses to a width of about 100 feet, usually at a 2" height.
What was left was a very dry thick hide, encasing the bones of the rib cage, spine, neck, and hips. The head was gone, except for the lower jaw, all the legs and tail were gone. There were a few scattered bones trailing out to a coyote den, but other then that, what bones remained were tightly held by the dried hide, still with hair attached. That's typical for decomposition of a large mammal (apprx. 150 lbs) out in the desert, exposed to the elements. We have very similar temps during May, June, and part of July as Apache Junction has, the altitude is just higher. Any other time of the year, we have +/-20 degrees cooler than the general Phoenix area.
Does that help a bit?

Yes and no. The Science site doesn't say "unless" this or that when explaining the stages of human decomp. It indicates that this will happen within this number of days and then the next process/stage will follow within another range of days. It sounds as if the process will happen regardless of where a body rests but may take longer depending on the surrounding conditions.

So, if buried, the process will still happen but at the higher number of days within the range to complete each stage of the process. The dry stage can take up to one year but the other four stages would have all occurred within 65 days, the total top number of all four stages combined. In other words, they don't specify when and or why the stages would not occur within the ranges provided. This is human decomposition. I'm not sure if animal decomposition produces different results. Human skin is seven layers (didn't have to look that one up!) but thin layers, right? Cowhide is, well, cowhide. Leather is tough. Rugs are made using cowhide. It's sort of like comparing apples to oranges, no?
 
Human Decay in Arizona -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2738563/

"Remains can retain a fresh appearance for a considerable time in the winter, but the onset of marked decomposition is rapid in the summer months. Bloating of the body usually is present two to seven days following death. Following this, within structures, there is frequently rapid decomposition and skeletonization. With outdoor exposure, remains are more likely to pass through a long period of dehydration of outer tissues, mummification, and reduction of desiccated tissue. Exposure of large portions of the skeleton usually does not occur until four to six months after death. Bleaching and exfoliation of bone--the beginning stages of destruction of the skeletal elements--begins at about nine months' exposure. Insect activity, including that of maggot and beetle varieties, may accelerate decomposition, but this process is greatly affected by location of the body, seasonal weather, and accessibility of the soft tissues. Carnivores and other scavengers also are contributing factors, as are clothing or covering of the body, substrate, elevation, and latitude."
 
My apologies to those that don't like to discuss these things.

From the research I did, which was very limited ... I thought due to temperature and conditions that she might have been mummified prior to the rains unearthing her.

Dehydrated as someone upthread mentioned.
The rains could have brought her to where she was found but IMO it would take a long time to "rehydrate" her body.

Still doesn't explain why the buzzards didn't show up for two more weeks ...

Hmm.

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So if she was left within a structure she would be more likely to have skeletal remains by the time they found her body. Outside of a structure in the elements and there would be flesh on the bone and mummification.

1: So had her body been stored somewhere and then swept out during the flood?

Or

2: Had she been buried and and then tissue rehydrated (catalyzing putridity) during the flood?

I'm thinking the second scenario.
 
Hehe! "we can trust him to not get out of dodge again... With his pilot's license...". ;)

What happened after September 2009 when he was caught though? He disappeared again April 1, 2013.
He only served, or did he, three plus years if even that, after he was found in 2009? That doesn't seem right/fair.

I'm pretty confident he's already out of dodge.
 
What happened after September 2009 when he was caught though? He disappeared again April 1, 2013.
He only served, or did he, three plus years if even that, after he was found in 2009? That doesn't seem right/fair.

I'm pretty confident he's already out of dodge.

Sorry I forgot to add I was being sarcastic. :)

I hope ya know I too am thoroughly TO'd with this guy receiving such leniency.
 
My apologies to those that don't like to discuss these things.

From the research I did, which was very limited ... I thought due to temperature and conditions that she might have been mummified prior to the rains unearthing her.

Dehydrated as someone upthread mentioned.
The rains could have brought her to where she was found but IMO it would take a long time to "rehydrate" her body.

Still doesn't explain why the buzzards didn't show up for two more weeks ...

Hmm.

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Yup 2 weeks after the tissues could have been rehydrated by the flood waters... That's when putridity attracts the buzzards? Not one week after the flood?

Everything could have been fairly saturated for some time in that area. I wouldn't think the buzzards would be attracted to the remains until the land became dry and arid again, causing the decay and scent of her remains to emanate. So if it rained fairly steadily off and on after that flooding I'm thinking her body really wouldn't have become subject to dry arid conditions and putridity/decay until 2 weeks maybe. Jmoo
 
So if she was left within a structure she would be more likely to have skeletal remains by the time they found her body. Outside of a structure in the elements and there would be flesh on the bone and mummification.

1: So had her body been stored somewhere and then swept out during the flood?

Or

2: Had she been buried and and then tissue rehydrated (catalyzing putridity) during the flood?

I'm thinking the second scenario.

I have a link about adipocere and a body being in the water for 3months.
This guy was still mostly there...
Obviously there was no marine life in the water where he was.

The more I dig the more hopeful I become that they had to get something valuable from the body/ scene.

If you want the link I will provide it, but not here on the thread.
I'd hate for anyone to click it by accident and be horrified.

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I have a link about adipocere and a body being in the water for 3months.
This guy was still mostly there...
Obviously there was no marine life in the water where he was.

The more I dig the more hopeful I become that they had to get something valuable from the body/ scene.

If you want the link I will provide it, but not here on the thread.
I'd hate for anyone to click it by accident and be horrified.

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Oh don't even get me started on the water aspect of this case. I agree with ya there! That's possible as well. Adipocere is something I've become very familiar with after another case (Elisa Lam).

I think I know the link you are speaking of - with the scleras being checked and the marbleization , among other things... Bleck!
 
Yup 2 weeks after the tissues could have been rehydrated by the flood waters... That's when putridity attracts the buzzards? Not one week after the flood?

Everything could have been fairly saturated for some time in that area. I wouldn't think the buzzards would be attracted to the remains until the land became dry and arid again, causing the decay and scent of her remains to emanate. So if it rained fairly steadily off and on after that flooding I'm thinking her body really wouldn't have become subject to dry arid conditions and putridity/decay until 2 weeks maybe. Jmoo

BINGO!!! I THINK THIS. IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!
-sorry for yelling.
The water wouldn't have had marine life and it would have been still until it dried up!

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Oh don't even get me started on the water aspect of this case. I agree with ya there! That's possible as well. Adipocere is something I've become very familiar with after another case (Elisa Lam).

I think I know the link you are speaking of - with the scleras being checked and the marbleization , among other things... Bleck!

Lol no it's a slide show. Just a dude in a pond for 12 weeks. Must have been a body farm type of deal.
But still...

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http://forensicsciencecentral.co.uk/anthropology.shtml

Here's one of the sites I took a few notes from last week that I based my post on today.
The stages chart came from another site that, of course, I'm unable to find now. When I scrolled down further within the link above, conditions and timelines are given there too. It's actually better because they mention differing conditions and such.

Anyway, I'm confident the experts in Arizona know what they're doing and based on what they see will glean what they can and determine possibilities of what happened with the information available to them.

Reposting an article from when after the body was found.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/...earching-more-clues-death-year-old-woman.html
 

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