AZ AZ - Chelsea Grimm, 32, traveling from San Diego CA to CT, car found Oct 5 on Forest Rd 6 near Williams, she was last seen in Williams, 28 Sep 2023

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I once ran over an orange traffic cone and it became stuck between my tire and wheel well wall. I didn't even know it was there. Someone pointed it out to me when I parked, and I had to call my husband to help get it dislodged. If it had been something that could cause a flat, I can see how she might have been a few miles up the road from where she hit it before she knew she had a problem.
But did you have car body damage? Sounds like she not only had some tree stuck in the car, but they were looking for 'white car body moulding', which I assume was one of the plastic outer panels from her car, which was missing. That would make a very big crack/thump. Even if the car was driveable, I would get out to check.

Given that trees don't grow in the middle of the road, I think she came off the road surface at some point, collected a small juniper pine, left behind some plastic molded body parts from her car, and just kept driving. Some point further on, her tyres went flat (or she hit something else that flattened them), and either she decided the car wasn't driveable or decided the universe was telling her to walk, so she took some clothing, her purse with her cards and ID, a sleeping bag, and her lizard, locked the car behind her, and vanished into the wilderness.

MMOO
 
There is a possible scenario where Chelsea deliberately runs over rocks or large branches as a "reason" to leave her car behind.
In a planned walk away situation.
Yeah, and that is hard to untangle. Did she clearheadedly hit the big red button on her life and relationships? Or did some misfiring in her brain make her ability to make sound choices and rational decision-making go completely wrong? Unless we find her, I don't know that we'll ever know.

MOO
 
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Yeah, and that is hard to untangle. Did she clearheadedly hit the big red button on her life and relationships? Or did some misfiring in her brain make her ability to make sound and rational decision-making go completely wrong? Unless we find her, I don't know that we'll ever know.

MOO
Yes, rational or misfiring are good descriptors.
The LE notes speak of an argument with her parents. Whether it was over her driving to the wedding or something else? Or, is that a simplistic assumption from the officer with regard to her words/ emotions?
 
Maybe she hit a pine and drive a long distance with it stuck in there... perhaps there are no juniper pines where the car was left, so it only could have been collected by the car some distance away.

MOO
After looking up "juniper pine", it seems that it's simply another name for junipers, which are in the pine family. Possibly it was a Utah juniper, whose range is within the search area.
Whatever it was, she had it stuck in her car. Maybe she couldn't see it from the drivers seat, despite being fairly tall for a woman, or maybe she just didn't care at the time (but eventually did, perhaps right after the cop left). Or could it have had a natural or spiritual meaning, like a dreamcatcher or the antlers of an elk? Crazy, I know, but we sometimes do SWAG here.

MOO
 
Yeah, and that is hard to untangle. Did she clearheadedly hit the big red button on her life and relationships? Or did some misfiring in her brain make her ability to make sound choices and rational decision-making go completely wrong? Unless we find her, I don't know that we'll ever know.

MOO

I can't find "clear headedness" in the story, yet. She takes 2 days to drive to Phoenix (allowing that she may have left a day later than reported). Then she has lunch with a friend, but fails to show up for lunch the next day, instead apparently heading north, then west (toward home) then east again (toward?). With a bearded dragon in the car. She notifies her parents she's not going to the wedding, and begins a kind of photo shoot involving lost soldiers (and other poignant but unusual topics for her budding photography business - she had not, to my knowledge, had more than one paying gig as a photographer per her Instagram).

She posts unusual posts on her FB about disappearing and has pictures of herself reading unusual passages from the Bible. She tries to use Euros at a motel, while telling the clerk that she doesn't want to be "tracked." It's possible that she thought the ex-boyfriend had the ability to get into her phone account (but she could have changed the password).

Her parents say she was known for "spontaneity" (code for "not planning much") and had mental health issues, per MSM.

Many people who get lost simply make a series of questionable decisions, incrementally putting themselves at risk. When the situation gets challenging (or even dire), they continue to make questionable decisions. Someone here wrote "always stay with the car!" as advice - and that should be imprinted in everyone's brain (but, alas, some people have either never heard that or have not internalized it - or are ignoring that part of their brain - Safety Third people, is the emerging term for this). The elderly gentleman who perished on Mt Baldy a couple of years ago (during winter), had hiked to the top many times and was with a group of younger people. The younger people all turned back, they urged him to turn back, they watched as he disappeared. They expressed their concern to him. He was adamant that he knew what he was doing. I don't think he intended to die, I think he was into the challenge of this hike and the rare opportunity to prove to himself that he was...a mountaineer?

I'm sure I've left out a few more things about CG, but it seems to me that we do have a record of what most LE and searchers would call "questionable decision-making." If she did go to Love's, she apparently didn't go inside. Was she even eating at that point? When she left her car behind, how did she expect to keep Roz safe? Roz needed heat overnight. She was sleeping in her car, apparently. Overnight lows would have been in the mid-30's, high 30's at best. Very chilly for a bearded dragon, as I understand it.

This news about the tree being up under her car is another bit of information and I agree with the officer. OTOH, it looks to me as if CG wore over-the-ear headphones and was likely listening to...something...in her car (and out of her car, too). One would think she'd notice the steering was different, but not if the tree were merely in the undercarriage - the flat tires, though, should have alerted her to stop. She had to have gone off the road into that tree (probably one of the smaller roadside ones). But that's still unusual. Refusal to accept aid is another big red flag.

IMO. Lots of really thoughtful posts on this thread. I think we have a lot of younger people who are kind of in freefall. CG put SO much into her education and licensure, my heart breaks thinking about this case. I do hope she's safe somewhere, she seems to be social, caring and resourceful.
 
I can't find "clear headedness" in the story, yet. She takes 2 days to drive to Phoenix (allowing that she may have left a day later than reported). Then she has lunch with a friend, but fails to show up for lunch the next day, instead apparently heading north, then west (toward home) then east again (toward?). With a bearded dragon in the car. She notifies her parents she's not going to the wedding, and begins a kind of photo shoot involving lost soldiers (and other poignant but unusual topics for her budding photography business - she had not, to my knowledge, had more than one paying gig as a photographer per her Instagram).

She posts unusual posts on her FB about disappearing and has pictures of herself reading unusual passages from the Bible. She tries to use Euros at a motel, while telling the clerk that she doesn't want to be "tracked." It's possible that she thought the ex-boyfriend had the ability to get into her phone account (but she could have changed the password).

Her parents say she was known for "spontaneity" (code for "not planning much") and had mental health issues, per MSM.

Many people who get lost simply make a series of questionable decisions, incrementally putting themselves at risk. When the situation gets challenging (or even dire), they continue to make questionable decisions. Someone here wrote "always stay with the car!" as advice - and that should be imprinted in everyone's brain (but, alas, some people have either never heard that or have not internalized it - or are ignoring that part of their brain - Safety Third people, is the emerging term for this). The elderly gentleman who perished on Mt Baldy a couple of years ago (during winter), had hiked to the top many times and was with a group of younger people. The younger people all turned back, they urged him to turn back, they watched as he disappeared. They expressed their concern to him. He was adamant that he knew what he was doing. I don't think he intended to die, I think he was into the challenge of this hike and the rare opportunity to prove to himself that he was...a mountaineer?

I'm sure I've left out a few more things about CG, but it seems to me that we do have a record of what most LE and searchers would call "questionable decision-making." If she did go to Love's, she apparently didn't go inside. Was she even eating at that point? When she left her car behind, how did she expect to keep Roz safe? Roz needed heat overnight. She was sleeping in her car, apparently. Overnight lows would have been in the mid-30's, high 30's at best. Very chilly for a bearded dragon, as I understand it.

This news about the tree being up under her car is another bit of information and I agree with the officer. OTOH, it looks to me as if CG wore over-the-ear headphones and was likely listening to...something...in her car (and out of her car, too). One would think she'd notice the steering was different, but not if the tree were merely in the undercarriage - the flat tires, though, should have alerted her to stop. She had to have gone off the road into that tree (probably one of the smaller roadside ones). But that's still unusual. Refusal to accept aid is another big red flag.

IMO. Lots of really thoughtful posts on this thread. I think we have a lot of younger people who are kind of in freefall. CG put SO much into her education and licensure, my heart breaks thinking about this case. I do hope she's safe somewhere, she seems to be social, caring and resourceful.
I don't see clear-headedness either.

I just feel terribly sad.

I connect a lot with kid cases, not exclusively, but I'm drawn to them. But there's a vulnerability to Chelsea and the circumstances of her disappearance that hurts my heart. We're all so incredibly vulnerable, more so than we ever know or accept, but Chelsea seems to have worn that vulnerability more openly than most, made it a defining aspect of her nature and personality. And still, it hasn't protected her from what I believe is misfortune compounded by some kind of mental health episode. Something literally took the wheel on her journey and steered her goodness knows where. We like to think that in the era of surveillance and satellite photos and GPS and mobile phones we'd always be able to be found, but the fact is, people vanish every day, and some, we never find. I hope Chelsea is one we do.

MOO
 
If she was immersed this deeply in New Age spirituality maybe she came across a local community of fellow enthusiasts?
This still doesn't explain to me why she wouldn't retrieve her car and why she's not leaving a financial trail, but maybe she purposely isn't leaving a trace?

Is there any evidence of people with these beliefs trying to hide, off the grid? It seems like they would feel like mainstream people couldn't understand and/or wouldn't accept their beliefs. Maybe they would feel threatened by mainstream society and try to isolate? Would they encourage newcomers to isolate with them?

I grew up in an area with fundamentalist religion, so this kind of stuff really scares me

This is one of my theories, too. There are a few "meditation" centers marked on google maps within the region (one not too far from Ash Fork). But beyond that, there are more loosely organized encampments of seekers (don't know what else to call them) in AZ. At one point, I got into trying to help/advise people who were "squatting" in Arizona (it's a complicated topic - there are lands in AZ where if you live on them and improve them in any manner, you can later lay a property claim for them, these lands are almost completely uninhabitable except by committed off-the-grid people).

Anyway, there are people who live just outside of National Parks, in National Forests, rather indefinitely. Some of them are there because they are in trouble of some kind, in some other state. Others are genuinely seeking a new lifestyle, off the grid, for personal and spiritual reasons. To me, it's a highly spiritual place. The entire Kaibab plateau has this amazing energy. There's plenty of firewood and even water, if a person can find it. I think CG would have been in a very difficult situation if she remained alone, but perhaps she didn't. Perhaps the right person came along and invited her into their home - or their community. It's not so much about hiding, in other words. I know a man who has lived off grid not far from Santa Cruz for...50 years? (Wow - I just checked up on him, he's still working, all of his work is environmental and most of it is about how to live off grid, he's pretty well known by now). He has a dome that he built, has solar, has a well, grows a few things - but does earn cash, and he organizes co-ops so that other people living off grid can join together and buy things in bulk (and these are distributed almost entirely by bicycle, once purchased - this guy is almost 80 and he still bikes up the hill to his little compound, which he now shares with about 12 people). IOW, he's kind of the point person for this little group. I actually know a few more such endeavors, now that I think about it.

If Chelsea were seeking such a life, AZ is a very good place to organize it. But why did she want to actually disappear?

Maybe the threat of DV (it's real, it's scary). Those of us who've been in that situation are not always rational in our ways of dealing with it. The number of times I took off to "disappear" is definitely greater than 10. I have slept in my car. I have slept rough (sleeping bag). Looking back, I feel really...weird or stupid...about admitting it. I would choose a place to sleep that I felt was safe. Twice I slept in a relative's driveway or curbside, leaving early in the morning so they didn't notice me. And it was reflecting on those situations that led me into therapy and eventually, out of the relationship. I will also say that I didn't want my parents to know the details of any of this. Indeed, if my aunt had seen me sleeping outside her house, I knew she was the one person in my family who would truly understand (having been a serious victim of DV herself).

So I have hope that Chelsea was looking for a new life - and being social, a new community. She has skills. She can change her name. I understand why she might not want her parents involved at the moment. OTOH, it's possible she's so severely depressed that she hasn't been able to properly fend for herself, the thought of which makes me so sad.

IMO.
 
some wonderful insights here, I agree. I echo some of the thoughts about why someone might choose Arizona to "explore" some passions, curiosities, draws...

I would like to know more about the "argument" with her folks.

And as surprised I am that she has not been found or turned up yet, I am well aware that sometimes people are not found or don't turn up for a long time. My heart aches for her parents and those who love her. How do you even stop your mind from creating awful scenarios...
 
I can't find "clear headedness" in the story, yet. She takes 2 days to drive to Phoenix (allowing that she may have left a day later than reported). Then she has lunch with a friend, but fails to show up for lunch the next day, instead apparently heading north, then west (toward home) then east again (toward?). With a bearded dragon in the car. She notifies her parents she's not going to the wedding, and begins a kind of photo shoot involving lost soldiers (and other poignant but unusual topics for her budding photography business - she had not, to my knowledge, had more than one paying gig as a photographer per her Instagram).

She posts unusual posts on her FB about disappearing and has pictures of herself reading unusual passages from the Bible. She tries to use Euros at a motel, while telling the clerk that she doesn't want to be "tracked." It's possible that she thought the ex-boyfriend had the ability to get into her phone account (but she could have changed the password).

Her parents say she was known for "spontaneity" (code for "not planning much") and had mental health issues, per MSM.

Many people who get lost simply make a series of questionable decisions, incrementally putting themselves at risk. When the situation gets challenging (or even dire), they continue to make questionable decisions. Someone here wrote "always stay with the car!" as advice - and that should be imprinted in everyone's brain (but, alas, some people have either never heard that or have not internalized it - or are ignoring that part of their brain - Safety Third people, is the emerging term for this). The elderly gentleman who perished on Mt Baldy a couple of years ago (during winter), had hiked to the top many times and was with a group of younger people. The younger people all turned back, they urged him to turn back, they watched as he disappeared. They expressed their concern to him. He was adamant that he knew what he was doing. I don't think he intended to die, I think he was into the challenge of this hike and the rare opportunity to prove to himself that he was...a mountaineer?

I'm sure I've left out a few more things about CG, but it seems to me that we do have a record of what most LE and searchers would call "questionable decision-making." If she did go to Love's, she apparently didn't go inside. Was she even eating at that point? When she left her car behind, how did she expect to keep Roz safe? Roz needed heat overnight. She was sleeping in her car, apparently. Overnight lows would have been in the mid-30's, high 30's at best. Very chilly for a bearded dragon, as I understand it.

This news about the tree being up under her car is another bit of information and I agree with the officer. OTOH, it looks to me as if CG wore over-the-ear headphones and was likely listening to...something...in her car (and out of her car, too). One would think she'd notice the steering was different, but not if the tree were merely in the undercarriage - the flat tires, though, should have alerted her to stop. She had to have gone off the road into that tree (probably one of the smaller roadside ones). But that's still unusual. Refusal to accept aid is another big red flag.

IMO. Lots of really thoughtful posts on this thread. I think we have a lot of younger people who are kind of in freefall. CG put SO much into her education and licensure, my heart breaks thinking about this case. I do hope she's safe somewhere, she seems to be social, caring and resourceful.
I think of someone using meth
 
I think of someone using meth

Possibly. But as this is a victim-friendly site and since my first hunch is "mental health issues," especially since her parents mention it, I'll go with that. I see no source of meth in this story. The person she had lunch with is not, IMO, a meth dealer. It's always possible. I mean, if I wanted to score meth, I know that going to Love's and hanging out in the parking lot, being friendly, is one way to do it (because I've been told that by people many times). Or any other truck stop with interstate trucking and space for lots of overnight drivers.

But it's certainly a possibility.

IMO.
 
e This article is from today.
She had lunch with her sister, that is new info.

Oh wow. So, she stood her sister up on the second day (but has someone in AZ whom she could contact).


Sounds like she doesn't want to meet up any more with family (esp. since she preferred sleeping in her car to "being tracked"). I'm sorry, but I sense some paranoia here, as if she really feels more comfortable as a hermit (even though she is actually very connected to her family - it's so abrupt, it seems like a striking change in mental health).
 
This article is from today.
She had lunch with her sister, that is new info.
Oh wow. So, she stood her sister up on the second day (but has someone in AZ whom she could contact).
SBM
Actually, it was the friend Chelsea stood up on the second day, for lunch. She did meet sis and friend the first day, but it doesn't say anything about lunch then:

She arrived in Phoenix, Arizona, where she met up with her sister and a friend. Chelsea was supposed to meet the same friend for lunch the following day but canceled her plans, heading to Williams, Arizona, instead.
 
This article is from today.
She had lunch with her sister, that is new info.
Did they edit the article? It's possible. I thought I read about a lunch on the first day too (but I may be misremembering). From the article:

She arrived in Phoenix, Arizona, where she met up with her sister and a friend. Chelsea was supposed to meet the same friend for lunch the following day but canceled her plans, heading to Williams, Arizona, instead
I don't see anything else about lunch (except she was supposed to have lunch with the friend the next day). Article is not great with the timeline (it mentions the call to her parents on her third day out, but doesn't help us understand whether that was before or after meeting up with friend and sister).

I thought for sure I read that she had lunch with *someone* on the first day in Phoenix, but perhaps this is the real story as the source is apparently the parents? I do not trust NN completely (but no reporter is perfect). I guess it was just a meet-up with no meal.

I wonder if she called her parents from Phoenix? Or from Williams? Surely the parents then talked to the sister. The cctv footage in WIlliams must surely have been gathered by police after the missing persons report went in - about 3-4 days later (so her parents were warned that she'd not have cell service, but became concerned). I wish they were a bit more forthcoming about why they got concerned, since she had told them she wouldn't be calling for a while.

IMO.
 
Thanks for this.... I have been waiting for information on the ease or lack there of with travelling with one.

Is it relatively easy to ask others to tend to one, while gone?
I guess I have just always wondered WHY she transported it.

With reptiles in general, and lizards in particular, it’s much easier to keep them in their setups and have someone check in on and feed them. Lizards need UV light to be able to make vitamin D3 and process calcium, which can cause health problems if they are without it for too long.

They also need heat to digest their food, and they need to eat regularly depending on the critter’s age (and their poops can be stinky!). Fresh fruits, vegetables, and insects would be hard to keep on a road trip. Plus, even though beardies can be quite personable, most lizards are not as adaptable to adventure and stress as, say, a dog might be.

Different owners might do different things with their beardies, or have different setups. But generally their home setups are fairly complex and important for the lizard’s health. The only real reasons I can think of to take it on a multi-day road trip are 1) less-than-optimal care, which being a newer owner is entirely possible, 2) nobody able to care for it at home and panic at lack of other options, or 3) a move from which you don’t intend to return.

MOO
 
Did they edit the article? It's possible. I thought I read about a lunch on the first day too (but I may be misremembering). From the article:


I don't see anything else about lunch (except she was supposed to have lunch with the friend the next day). Article is not great with the timeline (it mentions the call to her parents on her third day out, but doesn't help us understand whether that was before or after meeting up with friend and sister).

I thought for sure I read that she had lunch with *someone* on the first day in Phoenix, but perhaps this is the real story as the source is apparently the parents? I do not trust NN completely (but no reporter is perfect). I guess it was just a meet-up with no meal.

I wonder if she called her parents from Phoenix? Or from Williams? Surely the parents then talked to the sister. The cctv footage in WIlliams must surely have been gathered by police after the missing persons report went in - about 3-4 days later (so her parents were warned that she'd not have cell service, but became concerned). I wish they were a bit more forthcoming about why they got concerned, since she had told them she wouldn't be calling for a while.

IMO.
I'm with you, @10ofRods.
I believe we have read that lunch was the first meeting, and the next day, CG cancels.
Different reportings, different readings.
 
This article is from today.
She had lunch with her sister, that is new info.

Oh wow. So, she stood her sister up on the second day (but has someone in AZ whom she could contact).


Sounds like she doesn't want to meet up any more with family (esp. since she preferred sleeping in her car to "being tracked"). I'm sorry, but I sense some paranoia here, as if she really feels more comfortable as a hermit (even though she is actually very connected to her family - it's so abrupt, it seems like a striking change in mental health).
She stood her up? Wow I thought she called and cancelled
 
SBM
Actually, it was the friend Chelsea stood up on the second day, for lunch. She did meet sis and friend the first day, but it doesn't say anything about lunch then:

She arrived in Phoenix, Arizona, where she met up with her sister and a friend. Chelsea was supposed to meet the same friend for lunch the following day but canceled her plans, heading to Williams, Arizona, instead.

I'm not the one who posted that there was new information. As it turns out, it's the same information - so you're right, the linked article doesn't say lunch the first meet-up.

It's the same story linked before, no new info. But the information about the sister is new or fairly new!

IMO.
 

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