AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #11

[OneLove]

I too would love to talk about EJ.....where do we start? What have we not talked about? I want to know about a gazillion things! But, she's not talking, her atty. isn't talking, LE isn't saying much. Her grandpa has said a few things....some helpful background info....her brother has said little....Logan isn't talking much about her. Friends? Have we heard from any of them? Past employers? It's frustrating....

Does anyone know what she did that got her suspended from high school?

 

[time]

I may be new to this forum, but I do recall seeing a picture of GJ and H sitting on a staircase in what looked to be identical Halloween outfits (October 31st). But I keep reading that TPS and JPS only had GJ for 8 or 9 days, which did not fit in with a Halloween date. What's up with this picture?

Trudy, I saw that pic somewhere too as have others. I can't remember where. Id idn't think about it as Halloween outfits at the time (I maybe thought it was PJ's)

 

[OneLove]

We also are not seeing any girlfriends stepping out to speak up for her. Did she have any female friends at all? Was she pretty isolated from people during those post partum months?

 

[Pondering Mind]

On Dec 9, Elizabeth threatened to harm Gabriel, and repeatedly told Logan he would never see Gabriel again.

Do we know what that threat was BeanE? What did she say she would do to him?.. that's one thing I would like to know. That hasn't been released has it? I wish we knew a little more specifically what she has done or threatened to do in the past. Who does that..what mother threatens to harm their baby? For me, THAT is so unusual. I know she suffered from PPD..well I say I know it, but I don't know if it's ever been confirmed. Would PPD cause that? It just sounds like she didn't want him, plain and simple. All parents get frustrated and yes, even mad at an infant after hours of crying...it CAN make you feel like you are at your breaking point, but this is SO MUCH more than that it seems. Did she get mad when Gabe would be crying and threaten harm OR was it when she was using him as a pawn that she threatened and/or did apparently harm him in some way OR both. IDK, but she never wanted this baby and her own family talks about how stubborn and vindictive she is. She didn't want poor Gabriel, but she was going to make d@mn sure Logan didn't have him either. I feel sick to my stomach just typing this out...ugh..

 

[DairyGirl]

Does that make Tammi worse than Elizabeth? That's the impression I get, that people think Tammi is worse than Elizabeth. I can't follow that.

I think the same as you, that Tammi helped Eliz go on the run to change jurisdiction, facilitated the CC papers, etc., all because of her own self-absorbed obsession to get a baby for years, and finally having the chance to get Gabriel.

She tossed Gabriel's rights and best interests, and those of Logan aside, in order to try to Gabriel for herself.

She is a despicable person. LE is on to her, and she will be punished.

That, however, is where her part in wronging Gabriel ends. What finally happened to Gabriel is solely at the hands of Elizabeth, his mother, and whether she gave him away or killed him, either is far worse than what Tammi did.

Yet we have thread after thread after page after page of posts on the evils of Tammi, and Elizabeth is given a pass at every turn.

I don't get it. I just don't.

No matter what happened to Gabriel, it was at the hands of his mother, and I don't see how we're going to find out what happened to him, unless and until we start talking about Elizabeth. Nobody seems to want to though. Everybody just seems to want to talk about Tammi. Everything becomes about Tammi.

It must be me, because clearly, the majority here sees it differently. I recognize that, and I accept it. It's still very frustrating.

I just would sometimes like to discuss Elizabeth. I want to know what she with Gabriel. She is the key. To me, she is the key. She is the one, the only one, in that hotel room with Gabriel. Tammi wasn't there.

I can accept it, but I'm just frustrated not being able to discuss her.

I agree with you. The focus should be on EJ. I admit I have been caught up on looking at TPS because it was so obvious that she was being dishonest. But I am convinced at this point that she has no idea where Gabriel is. If she had a clue she would give it up because I don't think there is anything she would like more then to be the hero in this case. Well nothing she'd like more other then having Gabriel for herself anyway. She may have more to do with EJ's running then she would care to admit but I firmly believe that she had no intention of Gabriel going to anyone but herself. I cannot see one reason she would help EJ give Gabriel to some random couple unless she thought it would ultimately end up with her having the baby. That ship has sailed and I think that although she has forced herself into this situation and put herself out there in the media, people need to stop focusing on her. It does absulutely nothing in helping to return Gabriel to his father. As far as EJ goes, well, as her grandfather said, she is a tough horse to rid. I think she is a loose cannon and capable of anything. She could very well have found a couple on her own to give Gabriel to, but she seems like she could have hurt him too without any feelings of guilt. As far as her talking, I find it hard to believe that she would say anything truthful anyway. I find it hard to believe that she hates LM so much that she would be willing to sit in jail for the rest of her life but that is exactly what her grandfather says she is capable of.
Does anyone know what would happen to EJ if Gabriel is never found? Would would they press the current charges as far as they could or do you think they could concievably bring murder charges? I don't think that is likely because there is no evidence of a murder.

 

[redfish]

I did learn a few new things today that I find interesting.

We can't substantiate and must call rumor the information that Logan gave (through a friend) EJ obtained a new phone in SA. Surprisingly he says he got the # from Tammi???
Logan says this is how he called/texted her and tracked her to SA and from there LE tracked her to Miami.

I was surprised by the timeline I saw how quickly he went to LE.

I was very interested in the telephone conversation overheard and related by the babysitter. "grandmother" (according to EJ) was very upset because Logan was threatening the family and she must come back!! This kind of corroborates some of Tammi's crazy statements. Bet Logan could shed a lot more light on some of this.

What else did we learn today?

 

[time]

Do we know what that threat was BeanE? What did she say she would do to him?.. that's one thing I would like to know. That hasn't been released has it? I wish we knew a little more specifically what she has done or threatened to do in the past. Who does that..what mother threatens to harm their baby? For me, THAT is so unusual. I know she suffered from PPD..well I say I know it, but I don't know if it's ever been confirmed. Would PPD cause that? It just sounds like she didn't want him, plain and simple. All parents get frustrated and yes, even mad at an infant after hours of crying...it CAN make you feel like you are at your breaking point, but this is SO MUCH more than that it seems. Did she get mad when Gabe would be crying and threaten harm OR was it when she was using him as a pawn that she threatened and/or did apparently harm him in some way OR both. IDK, but she never wanted this baby and her own family talks about how stubborn and vindictive she is. She didn't want poor Gabriel, but she was going to make d@mn sure Logan didn't have him either. I feel sick to my stomach just typing this out...ugh..

Yes, she was on medication for PPD. Grandpa and her brother Robert both said they thought she has undiagnosed bipolar disorder and had had it for a long time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/01/12/crimesider/entry6087526.shtml

Someone else said a psychiatrist (or something) was on TV and he said he thought she was also - I don't know what news though and, of course, no one can diagnose that without examining her.

 

[DairyGirl]

I may be new to this forum, but I do recall seeing a picture of GJ and H sitting on a staircase in what looked to be identical Halloween outfits (October 31st). But I keep reading that TPS and JPS only had GJ for 8 or 9 days, which did not fit in with a Halloween date. What's up with this picture?

I think I know that picture and it was matching pajamas, Christmas pajamas if it was the same picture you are talking about.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I too would love to talk about EJ.....where do we start? What have we not talked about? I want to know about a gazillion things! But, she's not talking, her atty. isn't talking, LE isn't saying much. Her grandpa has said a few things....some helpful background info....her brother has said little....Logan isn't talking much about her. Friends? Have we heard from any of them? Past employers? It's frustrating....

It IS frustrating Amster..she isn't saying a word apparantly and LE isn't either! I have spent the day clicking refresh when I have SO much to get done! Something HAS to break soon, doesn't it?



eta~just a lil neighborly fyi to newbies ..you'll notice real quick when news is slow in a case like this we DO start getting frustrated and tend to take it out on each other, but it WILL getcha into BIG trouble and we wouldn't want to lose any great minds! :crazy: Not to mention, we seem to have a great mod that's pretty lenient with us...that's something to be thankful for! I'd hate to see her get 'frushtrated' with us! One thing we can count on.. and that's that we will disagree, lol!

 

[mamaeb]

I want to point something out. On TPS' myspace friends list, if you click "new friends" it shows you her newest friends. Elizabeth is one of those.
Meaning in the last 4-6 weeks they became friends on there.
I found that interesting, because I keep trying to go back and forth between if they knew each other a longer time than they said or if they only met in Dec. According to myspace at least, they are fairly new friends on there

 

[txsvicki]

I'm another that wishes there more focus on Elizabeth. I'm sure LE has checked, but the babysitter said Elizabeth was scantily dressed as she left the motel in the middle of the day for an appointment. IMO, she was going to turn a trick and wanted the motel room do it in. Could Elizabeth have given the baby to some pimp who knew someone or to a predator? She obviously knew she was definitely going to get rid of the baby one way or the other if she didn't take any of his things while on the run.

 

[Amster]

It IS frustrating Amster..she isn't saying a word apparantly and LE isn't either! I have spent the day clicking refresh when I have SO much to get done! Something HAS to break soon, doesn't it?



eta~just a lil neighborly fyi to newbies ..you'll notice real quick when news is slow in a case like this we DO start getting frustrated and tend to take it out on each other, but it WILL getcha into BIG trouble and we wouldn't want to lose any great minds! :crazy: Not to mention, we seem to have a great mod that's pretty lenient with us...that's something to be thankful for! I'd hate to see her get 'frushtrated' with us! One thing we can count on.. and that's that we will disagree, lol!

This case just seems to be handled differently than most. She said she killed Gabriel. Were there any searches for his little body? LE was saying they think he's alive....why do they think that? And, why were those pics released last night? In case someone recognizes him? Why did AMW say they would cover the case and then not do it? arghhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[trudysplace]

I think I know that picture and it was matching pajamas, Christmas pajamas if it was the same picture you are talking about.

As I recall, the outfits were orange background and some kind of black design.

 

[trudysplace]

I want to point something out. On TPS' myspace friends list, if you click "new friends" it shows you her newest friends. Elizabeth is one of those.
Meaning in the last 4-6 weeks they became friends on there.
I found that interesting, because I keep trying to go back and forth between if they knew each other a longer time than they said or if they only met in Dec. According to myspace at least, they are fairly new friends on there

According to the "Lost baby born into troubled home life" article (AZcentral.com), Jack and Tammi Smith met Johnson and Gabriel in the summer in a Boston airport.

 

[not_my_kids]

I want to point something out. On TPS' myspace friends list, if you click "new friends" it shows you her newest friends. Elizabeth is one of those.
Meaning in the last 4-6 weeks they became friends on there.
I found that interesting, because I keep trying to go back and forth between if they knew each other a longer time than they said or if they only met in Dec. According to myspace at least, they are fairly new friends on there

This is one of the things that further confuses me. If you look at EJ's myspace and Tammis myspace, they both seem to be logging on and adding/changing/updating/WeverTF in the weeks right before Gabriel going missing. But if you check Google cache on both of their pages, prior to that, they hardly ever updated. There is a huge gap in both pages when viewed on google cache as far as updates. All of EJ's info was outdated and the same for Tammi. Then in those last few weeks, they get very active...it leads me to think that any contact they did have prior to the "airport" was likely behind the scenes, or maybe through another facilitator. Which frightens me, as it would mean adding yet another unknown to the case and I don't want to do that.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

This case just seems to be handled differently than most. She said she killed Gabriel. Were there any searches for his little body? LE was saying they think he's alive....why do they think that? And, why were those pics released last night? In case someone recognizes him? Why did AMW say they would cover the case and then not do it? arghhhhhhhhhhhhh

AMW did cover it for 9 seconds.

 

[trudysplace]

AMW did cover it for 9 seconds.

I didn't think it was even that long. Just a short blurp before a commercial! What coverage.:banghead:

 

[time]

I am the one feeling alone now and after this I will butt out . BUT, we need to also remember that it is LE/FBI who made the Smith's POI's and they are still POI's and their house was searched. To me, they are very important to this case and I see no reason they cannot be a focus. I have no idea why that implies Elizabeth was not wrong or that she does not have more info to locate Gabriel. We just don't have much to go on on that end as someone said. LE still says the Smith's are withholding information and is still having to correct the media on what is stated by them. I think that's a travesty given there is a missing child.

Night All

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

ok... well I found a different tammi... who is on this site called baby crowd. I am not sure if I can post these... as I now don't think it is her
http://www.babycrowd.com/forums/adoption/Unhappily_Married/

http://www.babycrowd.com/forums/ado...king_for_a_home_for_my_baby_Im_due_May/pga-2/

but I do see she TPS is on cafemom looking to adopt as well

But look at the email addy, stgabrielXXX???? And the years together 14 are close. So are some of the other details of having a daughter wanting to be a big sister. Sounds like our TammiFaye to me.

 

[not_my_kids]

I didn't think it was even that long. Just a short blurp before a commercial! What coverage.:banghead:

It was exactly long enough for my fiance to point at the screen and say, "Hey, isn't that the kid from..." :furious: