AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #10

[AnaTeresa]

I remember this being discussed in several other cases covered here over the years when some posters took issue with the past tense being used. I remember that Marlene Lamar also has used past tense when referring to Sierra.

I also remember Ed Smart did it.

Maybe it is because they havent seen their loved one lately or maybe deep down they believe their loved one isnt coming home alive and that belief would certainly creep into their minds no matter how hard they try to shut it out, imo.

But I certainly dont think it means anything sinister because innocent parents have done the same thing in the past.

I dont know why they do it. Heck I have used past tense too when the person is alive.

IMO

Yeah, I think people put too much emphasis on tense. I use past tense for live persons on occasion when I describe things that happened in the past. It doesn't mean the person is dead - it simply means I'm describing something that happened a day/week/year ago. It feels odd to say "X is cheerful" when referring to the past. It feels much more normal to say "X was cheerful", even if I were referring to just the day before.

 

[Shelby2]

:seeya:

BBM: JMO ... but I do NOT believe that question was "preposterous" or "outrageous" at all ... it IS a Question that is asked all the time when your child goes "missing" ...

And you can bet LE asked Sergio that very same question ... AND ... IF he took a poly, he was also asked that very same question ... Asking the Question : whether or not you had something to do with your missing child -- is SOP by LE.

As Mr. Marc Klaas repeatedly states to parents / family of missing children : clear yourself IMMEDIATELY so the investigation can move FORWARD ...

And JMO, but it clearly does NOT look like this investigation is moving FORWARD ...

Actually, it moved "backwards" yesterday -- LE with 4 Detectives present were BACK in the home and conducted interviews with 3 family members SEPARATELY ...

While LE is NOT going to say this, it is obvious IMO that "something" is just not adding up with respect to the evidence and what the parents/family have told LE ...

All JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:

I think Oceanblueyes was saying that SERGIO may have considered the question outrageous, not necessarily that the the question WAS outrageous. I could be wrong though sorry I'll butt out now.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They remind me very much of the Smart parents when Elizabeth was missing.

Ed Smart very emotional type. Lois showing no emotion.

JMO

Yes, like I said before, they remind me very much of myself and my ex husband. I had to be the glue that held the family together in times of crisis because he fell apart and was totally emotional. He is still like that today and our kids are grown and on their own.

Imo, Becky knows she must outwardly appear strong because she knows he draws from her strength and that keeps him going.

If he sees her falling all to pieces they both are going to collapse in a heap and not be good for anything.

IMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

You know this makes sense to me. My mother was married to my step-dad for 20 years and he is hispanic. He was always the more tender of the two. He used to cry over my brother (who has asperger's) when we were little kids, and he was the one who did the laundry and would make us pancakes in the morning. My mom was always the boss in the relationship.

They looked sedated to me (rightfully so). They looked genuinely upset. Like they were cycling through the stages of grief over and over and quickly. The looked lost, confused, and angry that this happened to them. I believe them now, whereas before I was on the fence.

I think for us here, we almost want the parents to be guilty, otherwise the alternative is, that some stranger can just as likely walk into OUR houses and take our most beloved family members (our precious children) right out from under our noses.

Also, I thought the video of little Isa was absolutely precious and heartbreaking all in one. She is a beautiful child and unfortunately I think that is why she was taken. Someone with an unhealthy disgusting predilection for children saw her, wanted her for himself and basically stopped at nothing to get what he desired. I hope he rots in hell. I hope he is caught. I hope it is not too late and this little girl is returned to the people that obviously love her.

JMOO, but I think her brothers had absolutely NOTHING to do with this! I wish people wouldn't discuss that. I have a 14yo ds and he isn't even thinking along those lines yet. Yes, I know it can happen, but I really do not think this is the case here. :moo::moo:

I was questioning my own motives for subconsciously...then consciously... wanting the parents or close family members to be involved in this, and most, cases I follow.

Then it hit me, just like you posted above...... that it is easier to think that a family member did this horrific crime than if it is a stranger who is "out there"... someone we may never know!

I think to me it is a feeling of fear/loss of control/loss of protection if it is an unknown variable, but a family member would not be a threat to me, personally.

Not too proud here, but one of the by-products of analyzing cases is....
analyzing ourselves, too!

 

[GutFeeling!]

Does anyone know what the family did that day before going to the game and what time they went to the game? Did either of the parents work that day?
As for other being brought back to house by LE.....maybe LE did request others who may have been there to go but they refused or made an excuse not to.

May I ask why that matters? Don't want to sound flippant, just curious why it matters

 

[Lava]

OT: Site locked up on me again Diagnostic is that "websleuths is not responding."

BBM. On one of the HLN shows last night - JVM or NG - a reporter said that she has talked with extended family members who understand the importance of the media in keeping Isabel's disappearance in the forefront. The family members indicated that they would be happy to do this (speak to the media) but the parents won't allow it. :what:

I don't get the impression that Sergio is a control freak, and he is very free and open with his emotions and words. On the contrary, Becky does seem to be very controlled with careful check on emotions and carefully measured speech. I wonder if it's Becky who is telling extended family not to speak with the media? Seems like an awful lot of power wielded on other adults who should be able to make their own choices. If my niece or granddaughter was missing, no one would stop me from speaking out and pleading for her safe return. :moo:

I got locked out of the site for a while too. So buggy.


Anyways, I do think someone is telling extended family not to talk to anyone. Beckys very matter-of-fact statement in their first appearance leads me to believe that it is her decision.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yeah, I think people put too much emphasis on tense. I use past tense for live persons on occasion when I describe things that happened in the past. It doesn't mean the person is dead - it simply means I'm describing something that happened a day/week/year ago. It feels odd to say "X is cheerful" when referring to the past. It feels much more normal to say "X was cheerful", even if I were referring to just the day before.

Same here. I taught high school English and Journalism and could be a stickler for grammar and punctuation All of us misuse tense frequently in speech and writing, and it's really not a big deal. As a teacher, I would note it and explain the reason, but it's not worth a lot of criticism. :moo:

 

[LisaB]

Are we sure her hair was braided after the game? I have to listen to the interview again. Maybe mom braided her hair before the game?

Q: what do you last remember?
A: (Dad) Just that sweet little face, just that sweet little face. She had just gotten her hair done, it was just before she went to bed. I asked if she way hungry, she had a sleepy face and just said "no daddy". Shes just been so full of life.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think Oceanblueyes was saying that SERGIO may have considered the question outrageous, not necessarily that the the question WAS outrageous. I could be wrong though sorry I'll butt out now.

Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. And Sergio does not have to prove anything to the public or the media anyway.

The Celis' are doing just exactly what Marc has always said should be done. They have taken polys and they have coopertated fully from minute one and continue to do so and will as long as it takes to get Isa home, imo.

Why some think he has to clear himself to the media or to the general public, I dont have a clue.

But, imo, he did find the speculative question highly offensive. If I knew I had not harmed my child and was in pain and total anquish over them being missing, I would have probably told them what they could do with that offensive da*n question.

I would tell them it was so offensive that it didnt even deserve an answer.

IMO

 

[insatiable]

May I ask why that matters? Don't want to sound flippant, just curious why it matters

I think her entire routine for the day matters...where she was, who she spoke to, who she was with, was there anything out of the ordinary???
If her being at school matters and her being at the game maters then certainly what's in between matters as well, IMO.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I was questioning my own motives for subconsciously...then consciously... wanting the parents or close family members to be involved in this, and most, cases I follow.

Then it hit me, just like you posted above...... that it is easier to think that a family member did this horrific crime than if it is a stranger who is "out there"... someone we may never know!

I think to me it is a feeling of fear/loss of control/loss of protection if it is an unknown variable, but a family member would not be a threat to me, personally.

Not too proud here, but one of the by-products of analyzing cases is....
analyzing ourselves, too!

For me, the opposite is true. I find it much less disturbing to imagine unknown predators, "outsiders," than to think that "one of us" would be responsible. Like I already acknowledge and accept that there's danger "out there," and do what I can to protect myself. I don't expect to be perfectly safe so I don't let my guard down with everyone, I take reasonable precautions. It is way scarier for me to wonder if the greater threat is from one of "my people." I think it is interesting how we (you and I but also posters in general) have different perspectives on this. I think it is great that you analyzed yourself. We all see things thru different eyes, and it's important to understand what "eyes" you see the world thru. :cow:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

:seeya:

BBM: JMO ... but I do NOT believe that question was "preposterous" or "outrageous" at all ... it IS a Question that is asked all the time when your child goes "missing" ...

And you can bet LE asked Sergio that very same question ... AND ... IF he took a poly, he was also asked that very same question ... Asking the Question : whether or not you had something to do with your missing child -- is SOP by LE.

As Mr. Marc Klaas repeatedly states to parents / family of missing children : clear yourself IMMEDIATELY so the investigation can move FORWARD ...

And JMO, but it clearly does NOT look like this investigation is moving FORWARD ...

Actually, it moved "backwards" yesterday -- LE with 4 Detectives present were BACK in the home and conducted interviews with 3 family members SEPARATELY ...

While LE is NOT going to say this, it is obvious IMO that "something" is just not adding up with respect to the evidence and what the parents/family have told LE ...

All JMO and MOO ...

:moo::moo::moo:

It is perfectly fine if LE asks Sergio that question a thousand times a day if they want to but Serigo is not on trial by the media or the public. He owes no one an explanation but LE and he is coopertating fully with them per LE.

He is doing exactly what Marc did. He took a poly very early on and so did Becky. He is cooperating fully with LE and so is she. Marc has never said that family members have to prove their innocence to the media or the public at large.

There is no evidence that this family is impeding this investigation.

I dont know where you are getting that something is not adding up? This is certainly not the first case that has hit a dead end where LE is not finding anything that points them to a suspect.

 

[Shelby2]

I wonder if there will be a PC today.

 

[Donjeta]

I agree with what a poster just said a few posts back-it was almost as if he didn't hear the question (was he involved) over the thought in his head 'WHY DID THIS HAPPEN?' It just didn't seem suspicious to me.*
Mom looked like she was trying very hard to control herself, yes she looked nervous but I would be alarmed if she was just calmly sitting there.*
Oh almost forgot-Sergio saying "Isa is IS.."-to me that looked like someone trying very hard to believe his daughter is still alive. Almost like if he believes it hard enough it will be true. I tend to do the same thing-speak that way-so maybe that's why I didn't see anything suspicious about it, IDK. But they must know what the odds are...

I thought he might have emphasized the "Isa IS so full of life" because he is echoing the words of the interviewer. Earlier she says,
>> we can see from the videotape, just so full of life. and sergio , i'm wondering, you know, we just saw from the videotape, you were asked to reenact the hours before isabel disappeared. what do you remember about the last time you saw her, sergio ?

and he is agreeing, yes, she IS full of life just like you said.

 

[CarrieBean]

I listened to it a few times and the dad says, she is, wa..IS so full of life.

So he said is then almost said was then corrected with a strong IS.

That stuck out to me.

 

[CarrieBean]

Honestly? We don't - we can't make up stuff as we go - not in print anyway.

Been watching/reading the news long enough to have seen plenty of misreporting. Yes, honestly.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I wonder if there will be a PC today.

Our news at noon said there would be a PC today at 2pm.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/category/218560/kold-news-13-live-video

http://www.kvoa.com/livestream/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They remind me very much of the Smart parents when Elizabeth was missing.

Ed Smart very emotional type. Lois showing no emotion.

JMO

Ed would also refer to Elizabeth sometimes in the past tense.

imo

 

[dog.gone.cute]

May I ask why that matters? Don't want to sound flippant, just curious why it matters

:seeya:

Putting my :twocents: in fwiw ...

JMO, but it matters a great deal ... no telling what could have happened, or WHO she came into contact with, 24-48 Hours BEFORE she was reported missing that may be critical info to the investigation, and/or info that may have CAUSED or LED UP TO her "disappearance" ...

:waitasec: I remember this from one of the shows on the ID Channel that goes something like this:

Every detail is important regarding the 48 Hours just BEFORE a person goes missing ...

:moo:

 

[mmmagique]

I think he found that speculative question preposterous and outrageous. He cant imagine why someone would believe that about him or even ask him that question.

IMO

Haven't they been speaking to Mark Klass? Surely he would have explained that the family is always looked at first.