AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #11

[katydid23]

It is hard for me to believe that he could have been hiding in the girls room when the family came home. I don't think the dogs would have ignored the fact that a stranger was hiding in the closet when the family came back home.

 

[Okay then]

*If LE made Isas' parents aware of a possible chemical forensic "hit", a lot could be rationalized for *me on both sides of the "are the parents involved" we show you evidence like LE did in the Ayla Reynolds case when they showed JD evidence of blood, or, " LE showed them the truth" and they are silenced in hope of answers... so no asking for searching because they already have the biggest piece of the puzzle? So, back to square 1 for me. jmo

 

[Shelby2]

*If LE made Isas' parents aware of a possible chemical forensic "hit", a lot could be rationalized for* me on both sides of the "are the parents involved" we show you evidence like LE did in the Ayla Reynolds case when they showed JD evidence of blood, or, " LE showed them the truth and they are silenced in hope of answers... so no asking for searching because they already have the biggest piece of the puzzle? So, back to square 1 for me. jmo

And in that case LE said that cadaver dogs got a hit, they even said exactly where didn't they? I can't remember if that was MSM or just NG though.

 

[carole]

It seems like she must have, because her Dad went to her room to wake her up, didn't he?

He could have gone to the boys room to wake them up expecting Isabel to be there, and when Isabel wasn't there, he would naturally go to her room expecting her to be there, but she was gone.

There are so many things we just don't know.

 

[carole]

And in that case LE said that cadaver dogs got a hit, they even said exactly where didn't they? I can't remember if that was MSM or just NG though.

We only knew that because the search warrant was not sealed - LE wanted it sealed but the judge said no. It was in MSM.

 

[Okay then]

And in that case LE said that cadaver dogs got a hit, they even said exactly where didn't they? I can't remember if that was MSM or just NG though.

I was thinking more on the line of Luminal ( sp?)

 

[cluciano63]

*If LE made Isas' parents aware of a possible chemical forensic "hit", a lot could be rationalized for *me on both sides of the "are the parents involved" we show you evidence like LE did in the Ayla Reynolds case when they showed JD evidence of blood, or, " LE showed them the truth" and they are silenced in hope of answers... so no asking for searching because they already have the biggest piece of the puzzle? So, back to square 1 for me. jmo

I am wondering if it was a stain or something, and they wanted to get each person's version of where it came from...as in Ayla's case, the grandma said she cut her foot or something when they showed or told her about blood...even though the blood was Ayla's. Just thinking...

 

[SmoothOperator]

I don't think LE would ever declare someone deceased based only on a hit of a dog at a scene. They may think it, they may believe it, they may even talk about it among themselves as they review the case at headquarters, but publicly make such a statement? No way. They would need and want more information before declaring someone to be deceased.

They might instead use phrases like, "in grave danger," or "at risk," which we've seen LE use in other cases.

That in no way diminishes the 'hit' by one of the dogs at the Celis home. I personally think the hit of a spot in the house was by the cadaver dog. A bloodhound would be following a scent trail, not a single spot.

This reminds me of the Lisa Irwin situation, as well as the Madeline McCann case. Dogs hit in both of those cases and police have not declared either of those two dead (though they obviously suspect they are).

U
Until LE says something more definitive, which they likely won't until an arrest, I'm sticking with the one thing I know I can count on. The dogs & their training & their super-sensitive noses! If a well-trained dog alerted, it's for a reason.

And its certainly your right to believe or "count on"..but ya do realize there isn't anything whatsoever even so much as implying that aa dog that "gave LE info in which to further investigate"..nothing whatsoever indicating the dog was a cadaver/HrD dog....??

 

[GutFeeling!]

I think there is a reason the idea of her sleeping with her brothers came up...if she usually did, then who would know that?
In any event I think this was someone who knew the house, knew the camera did not work, etc...so they probably knew where to find Isabel, on an ordinary night. But if sleeping in her own room was NOT ordinary, why did she on this night?

Maybe LE has narrowed down a list of people who would know where she slept on a regular basis, and this is part of the "sensitive" info no one will talk about...

JMO

I thought NG *spits* bombshelled that she slept with her brothers?

Just curious why you think there is a reason?

 

[GutFeeling!]

I have just reread a heap of stories from the beginning of this case, naturally there are descrepancies between then and now but there is just something that isn't sitting with me well and I, for the life of me can't get what it is. I just can't get it ... driving me crazy here.

 

[Shelby2]

I have just reread a heap of stories from the beginning of this case, naturally there are descrepancies between then and now but there is just something that isn't sitting with me well and I, for the life of me can't get what it is. I just can't get it ... driving me crazy here.

You and me both.

 

[Shelby2]

I thought NG *spits* bombshelled that she slept with her brothers?

Just curious why you think there is a reason?

And NG brings it up every time she talks about this case.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I have just reread a heap of stories from the beginning of this case, naturally there are descrepancies between then and now but there is just something that isn't sitting with me well and I, for the life of me can't get what it is. I just can't get it ... driving me crazy here.

Yep, I completely know what you're saying. I find this to me one of the most unusual missing children's cases. The parents are not separated but they somehow seem not emotionally connected, there is the oddball 'uncle' factor, the police release a video for the wrong date, dogs are barking, the neighbor.....I could go on and on. Nothing about this case seems 'clean' if you know why I mean. And while I'm still on the side that the parents aren't directly responsible, I think they are hiding something that could be a key to this case.

The poster a while back, and forgive me I don't remember who suggested it, that said Isa could be safe somewhere because the parents are looking for money. That made me think a little bit. I'm not sure if that's what's going on but I realize in this cause, it made me stop and think about it for a minute. That I thought about that makes me realize this case is 'off'.

 

[GutFeeling!]

You and me both.

At lest I am in good company lol

 

[Lava]

If the celis' are not staying at home...but the dogs are (based on the video of the neighbor opening the door(gate?) and the dog is visible)...I wonder if they have a doggy door. Or are the dogs being kept in the house/yard full time. I wonder because I would be uncomfortable leaving my dog alone in a house for an undetermined amount of time, or a yard for an undetermined amount of time. Some doggy doors are big enough that you can reach an arm in to unlock a doorknob.

And while I was typing this Rebeccas statement of "We don't want to screw something else up" (or something similar) keeps playing in my head. Maybe guilt for having the doggy door?

 

[Donjeta]

Everybody talks about people in past tense when they know for a fact that the person is dead (it might take some time if the news of the death is recent) or when they are talking about an incident that happened in the past.

It's only a cause for concern when it's a missing person who has been gone only for a very short time and no one but the perp knows for sure that she's dead and most families are still holding on to hope that she is alive and will be found.

After it's been a while and most people figure out that the odds of the person being found alive in these circumstances after so much time are close to nil they may switch to past tense even though they don't know for sure. But in the first couple of days it's a definite red flag when someone is talking about the missing person's temperament and habits and not something she did N+1 weeks or months or years ago.

 

[Shelby2]

Everybody talks about people in past tense when they know for a fact that the person is dead (it might take some time if the news of the death is recent) or when they are talking about an incident that happened in the past.

It's only a cause for concern when it's a missing person who has been gone only for a very short time and no one but the perp knows for sure that she's dead and most families are still holding on to hope that she is alive and will be found.

After it's been a while and most people figure out that the odds of the person being found alive in these circumstances after so much time are close to nil they may switch to past tense even though they don't know for sure. But in the first couple of days it's a definite red flag when someone is talking about the missing person's temperament and habits and not something she did N+1 weeks or months or years ago.

I can't remember who spoke of Isabel in the past tense-was it JM?

 

[carole]

I can't remember who spoke of Isabel in the past tense-was it JM?

Yes. Way down at the bottom of the article from 4-22 he used "could" not "can" and "didn't" not "doesn't". Reported Sunday, she went missing Saturday.

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...n-arizona-144536689--abc-news-topstories.html

His statement has been reported on several MSM sites.

 

[Shelby2]

:maddening:

Yes. Way down at the bottom of the article from 4-22 he used "could" not "can" and "didn't" not "doesn't". Reported Sunday, she went missing Saturday.

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blog...n-arizona-144536689--abc-news-topstories.html

His statement has been reported on several MSM sites.

Thanks. This case gets so confusing sometimes I can't trust my memory!

 

[~n/t~]

Isabel Celis' parents attend charity softball game

TUCSON - Isabel Celis' parents attended a charity softball game to help bring their daughter home.

Teams competed in a tournament at the Kino Sports Complex Saturday afternoon.

http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/