AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[Shelby2]

Here is the Material Safety Data Sheet for Luminol
https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/30356.htm

 

[Pensfan]

How did the complainant (stated to be sister, but might be one of Isabel’s brothers) know Isabel’s precise weight and her height to tell the dispatcher? (Yes, her brothers could guess, but they wouldn't be that accurate.) Did Sergio tell “sister” precisely what to tell LE when she/he called 911? Why didn’t Sergio make the 911 call?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/cv...bestoftv/2012/05/09/exp-jvm-mayes-manhunt.hln

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I understand your point, however around here (I am not in AZ) it is very common for homeowners to have a "cleaning lady", which is just it sounds, self employed or franchisee that keeps her supplies in her van or SUV and cleans houses alone. I could fathom RC saying out loud "we need the home cleaned before we can think about going back", and someone said "call so and so, she is my cleaning lady."

I also want to add.. when I was having my house built we rented an apartment, as we were moving in to our home, the apartment was robbed. It was a very simple robbery, but the finger print powder and glue made a HUGE MESS. The robbers took all the laptops, and had dragged the desktop monitor to the back door but left it for some reason, my youngest daughter now has it, and I can STILL see the dust/glue on the screen. This was like five years ago. So yes, investigations do make messes.

I am very familiar with independent "cleaning ladies" and have employed several in my home(s) over the past 40+ years. I was specifically addressing the fact that a single individual representing a professional housekeeping service - The Maids - arrived at the Celis home and was repeatedly shown on video that has been used on several networks. The woman arrived in a small yellow car clearly marked with "The Maids" logo. She rang the doorbell, and, when no one responded, she made a phone call to which a (presumed) family member responded and promptly arrived to open the door for the "maid". The woman might have been there to provide an estimate for cleaning services. I doubt that a professional maid service would assign one individual to clean a 3800 sq ft home without assistance. :moo:

 

[Pensfan]

I understand your point, however around here (I am not in AZ) it is very common for homeowners to have a "cleaning lady", which is just it sounds, self employed or franchisee that keeps her supplies in her van or SUV and cleans houses alone. I could fathom RC saying out loud "we need the home cleaned before we can think about going back", and someone said "call so and so, she is my cleaning lady."

I also want to add.. when I was having my house built we rented an apartment, as we were moving in to our home, the apartment was robbed. It was a very simple robbery, but the finger print powder and glue made a HUGE MESS. The robbers took all the laptops, and had dragged the desktop monitor to the back door but left it for some reason, my youngest daughter now has it, and I can STILL see the dust/glue on the screen. This was like five years ago. So yes, investigations do make messes.

BBM
....but their investigative tools were not hazardous to your health. You were able to move into the apartment. The Celis parents claim they can't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. They also mentioned it was enormously painful to stay at there home on the one night that they tried to sleep there. An enormously painful response is understandable. Stating that they can't return to their home because of the "dangerous LE chemicals" is deceptive, IMO. I think they don't want to return to their home because LE bugged every room.

 

[mck16]

BBM
....but their investigative tools were not hazardous to your health. You were able to move into the apartment. The Celis parents claim they can't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. They also mentioned it was enormously painful to stay at there home on the one night that they tried to sleep there. An enormously painful response is understandable. Stating that they can't return to their home because of the "dangerous LE chemicals" is deceptive, IMO. I think they don't want to return to their home because LE bugged every room.

Isn't it illegal to bug someone's home? Don't you have to have a court order even if you are LE? tia

 

[FrayedKnot]

A caller into the show is wondering if the kidnapper made the phone call reporting Isa missing. :banghead:

Well, I, too, have wondered the same. Maybe not 'kidnapper' per se, but person responsible for her being missing.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Isn't it illegal to bug someone's home? Don't you have to have a court order even if you are LE? tia

States have different laws on this sort of thing. But it's generally not legal to bug a home without a warrant. It might be possible, though, for one person in the home to agree to letting the police install some surveillance stuff in the hope that they can nab another person in the home.

I have lost track of this case. I hope they find the little girl.

 

[Pensfan]

Isn't it illegal to bug someone's home? Don't you have to have a court order even if you are LE? tia

It might not be difficult to find a judge to sign off on surveillance inside the Celis' home. Remember that LE was able to renewed/refreshed the search warrant many times in this case. Police depts. in other cases have bugged the homes of other parents of missing children.

 

[mck16]

It might not be difficult to find a judge to sign off on surveillance inside the Celis' home. Remember that LE was able to renewed/refreshed the search warrant many times in this case. Police depts. in other prominent cases have bugged the homes of other parents of missing children.

You are right. I believe they 'refreshed' it twice. jmo

 

[pieper4]

Isn't it illegal to bug someone's home? Don't you have to have a court order even if you are LE? tia

I would imagine a court order would have been issued early on if LE has any inkling of the parent's involvement. Of course we don't have that information. ;-)

 

[Okay then]

BBM
....but their investigative tools were not hazardous to your health. You were able to move into the apartment. The Celis parents claim they can't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. They also mentioned it was enormously painful to stay at there home on the one night that they tried to sleep there. An enormously painful response is understandable. Stating that they can't return to their home because of the "dangerous LE chemicals" is deceptive, IMO. I think they don't want to return to their home because LE bugged every room.

IDK, but RE: deception,

1. The Celis parents ARE receiving, "compensation" via a paid Hotel room. Joe q. public had to figure that out on their own. jmo

2. ^^^see above.

3. Then there is that "Fundraising" website with no-one really "Searching" for Isa. imo

Still on my :fence: but hey, I am feeling the Hinky! Just saying. :moo:

 

[liz b.]

BBM
....but their investigative tools were not hazardous to your health. You were able to move into the apartment. The Celis parents claim they can't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. They also mentioned it was enormously painful to stay at there home on the one night that they tried to sleep there. An enormously painful response is understandable. Stating that they can't return to their home because of the "dangerous LE chemicals" is deceptive, IMO. I think they don't want to return to their home because LE bugged every room.

Interesting post. MOO If the house is bugged,how would they ever go back ? MOO

 

[Pensfan]

Interesting post. MOO If the house is bugged,how would they ever go back ? MOO

Good question. Can someone hire a company to remove LE's electronic listening devices from their home? What would happen once LE discovered all their equipment had been removed?

It has been a while since Sabrina Aisenburg's case was in the news. Read the first two paragraphs if you're interested. It sounds like Isabel's. Their home was bugged, but bugged rather unsuccessfully.
http://karisable.com/sabrina.htm

 

[GutFeeling!]

BBM
....but their investigative tools were not hazardous to your health. You were able to move into the apartment. The Celis parents claim they can't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. They also mentioned it was enormously painful to stay at there home on the one night that they tried to sleep there. An enormously painful response is understandable. Stating that they can't return to their home because of the "dangerous LE chemicals" is deceptive, IMO. I think they don't want to return to their home because LE bugged every room.

Just following on Pensfan - I would do anything to get rid of an investigation remnants out of my house. It stinks as far as i am concerned, I certainly wouldn't let my children in there with that smell that lingers, not to mention the mess. I couldn't think of anything more depressing than going to my home where the worst of the worst has happens and have to clean up all that crap. I couldn't eat or sleep or anything else - cleaning up proof of what has happened would not be possible

 

[Pensfan]

Just following on Pensfan - I would do anything to get rid of an investigation remnants out of my house. It stinks as far as i am concerned, I certainly wouldn't let my children in there with that smell that lingers, not to mention the mess. I couldn't think of anything more depressing than going to my home where the worst of the worst has happens and have to clean up all that crap. I couldn't eat or sleep or anything else - cleaning up proof of what has happened would not be possible

ITA, but Sergio thinks differently. In the interview he stated, "Life goes on. The world does not stop. We cannot curl up....blah blah...."

 

[gliving]

Interesting post. MOO If the house is bugged,how would they ever go back ? MOO

What makes you think they aren't being bugged where they are staying now? A hotel room is probably easier to bug than the house, if that's the case. Cell phones tap? No problem. Computers are even more accessible. GPS on their cars. I could go on. I read on Facebook that the boys are back at school. I'm sure they are under scrutiny if LE has suspicions. No matter what the family does, LE knows each and every move. $1mil spent so far on the investigation. You can be assured the Celis' are under the microscope.

 

[cluciano63]

ITA, but Sergio thinks differently. In the interview he stated, "Life goes on. The world does not stop. We cannot curl up....blah blah...."

I admit, he did say that kind of soon...
But I guess for the kids, they do have to get back to some kind of a routine...and not everyone can just leave their jobs and crusade, like Beth Hollloway has done, and some others.


I just wish there was on-going searching being done by someone. Media surely would pick up on any LE searches, as they are very hard to do in secrecy. If they really don't have an idea of what they have here, why not be searching and clearing various areas outside the city limits? I hope I am wrong, and they are doing this and the media is just oblivious, but it doesn't seem like it. I can see not wanting amateurs searching in that terrain, but there are a lot of professionals across the country who would probably be willing to help. How are these kids ever going to found, unless searching is regular and on-going and areas are marked off each week...JMO and rambling, I know.

 

[Pensfan]

I admit, he did say that kind of soon...
But I guess for the kids, they do have to get back to some kind of a routine...and not everyone can just leave their jobs and crusade, like Beth Hollloway has done, and some others.


I just wish there was on-going searching being done by someone. Media surely would pick up on any LE searches, as they are very hard to do in secrecy. If they really don't have an idea of what they have here, why not be searching and clearing various areas outside the city limits? I hope I am wrong, and they are doing this and the media is just oblivious, but it doesn't seem like it. I can see not wanting amateurs searching in that terrain, but there are a lot of professionals across the country who would probably be willing to help. How are these kids ever going to found, unless searching is regular and on-going and areas are marked off each week...JMO and rambling, I know.

bbm
I can't understand this either. Perhaps it is related to the with security tapes that LE collected. Maybe something/someone is on the tape and LE knows Isabel couldn't have been taken many miles away. ??? It's baffling.

 

[Ransom]

.........and what's really illogical is that The Celis parents stated they couldn't move back in because of the dangerous chemicals. These "dangerous chemicals" only require gloves, dish soap, and water to clean up. The fingerprinting dust can be vacuumed away.

I don't think the non-hazardous Luminol sprayed on the walls is why Sergio and Becky do not want to return to their home. IMO, this is the real reason: LE likely bugged every room and their young sons may not be adept at keeping family secrets.

BBM: NOT TRUE. IF you do not have the right chemicals to remove the residue (from walls, screens, door facings, light switches, etc) it will make it worse. It isn't like using Windex or 409. That stuff is awful to get rid of.

Not commenting of the rest.

 

[Ransom]

Isabel's parents stated that she was last seen wearing a blue tank top. The complainant ("sister", but could have been Isabel's brother) said Isabel was last seen wearing a pink tank top.
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm?id=79914

Where is the pink tank top?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7845594&highlight=rewind#post7845594
(female LEO @ 8:31)
can you update the description? it's actually a navy blue tank top with Old Navy writing and navy blue basketball shorts


IT was updated with the correct info. Whomever tipped off JVM did a very, very, very poor job. IMO.