AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[Taminator]

BBM: NOT TRUE. IF you do not have the right chemicals to remove the residue (from walls, screens, door facings, light switches, etc) it will make it worse. It isn't like using Windex or 409. That stuff is awful to get rid of.

Not commenting of the rest.

I've cleaned fingerprint dusting before. Twice. I've never had a problem cleaning it up with ordinary over-the-counter cleaner. Of course, both times were at a business, on metal and glass doors, so I suppose depending on the texture of the surface which was dusted, it could be difficult.

ETA: I think I may have misunderstood part of your comment. I agree that vacuuming it would not work. But I've used regualr cleaners (like Windex) and it came off with a little elbow grease--no problem.

 

[Shelby2]

What makes you think they aren't being bugged where they are staying now? A hotel room is probably easier to bug than the house, if that's the case. Cell phones tap? No problem. Computers are even more accessible. GPS on their cars. I could go on. I read on Facebook that the boys are back at school. I'm sure they are under scrutiny if LE has suspicions. No matter what the family does, LE knows each and every move. $1mil spent so far on the investigation. You can be assured the Celis' are under the microscope.

I was going to say the same thing. I'm sure the FBI would have no problem putting listening devices wherever they want.

 

[Shelby2]

I've cleaned fingerprint dusting before. Twice. I've never had a problem cleaning it up with ordinary over-the-counter cleaner. Of course, both times were at a business, on metal and glass doors, so I suppose depending on the texture of the surface which was dusted, it could be difficult.

I wonder if Ransom was talking about the luminol?
My BIL is on the HAZMAT team here and I'll ask him about it...FWIR it is not entirely "non-toxic".

 

[nursebeeme]

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...cle_d234a172-4be3-5023-8ef6-3b952858a1e7.html

 

[white rabbit]

for those like myself who fly through the thread playing catch-up...lol...

jvm transcript
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/10/ijvm.01.html

police scanner audio
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/10/jvm-isabel-celis-audio-recording

 

[Boodles]

Interesting post. MOO If the house is bugged,how would they ever go back ? MOO

I agree that the family does not seem to want to return to the house, but what's to stop LE from bugging the hotel room(s)? I hope that's being done until/unless the parents are cleared.

 

[Shelby2]

Also the FBI could have used tetramethylbenzidine to rule out the presence of blood - if they first got a positive result w/luminol, tetramethylbenzidine would confirm or rule out blood.Tetramethylbenzidine is Level 2 for health and Level 1 for Fire.
Luminol is Level 1 for health.
HAZMAT levels go from 0 to 4, 0 being the least risk, 4 the highest.

 

[txanmom]

I am very familiar with independent "cleaning ladies" and have employed several in my home(s) over the past 40+ years. I was specifically addressing the fact that a single individual representing a professional housekeeping service - The Maids - arrived at the Celis home and was repeatedly shown on video that has been used on several networks. The woman arrived in a small yellow car clearly marked with "The Maids" logo. She rang the doorbell, and, when no one responded, she made a phone call to which a (presumed) family member responded and promptly arrived to open the door for the "maid". The woman might have been there to provide an estimate for cleaning services. I doubt that a professional maid service would assign one individual to clean a 3800 sq ft home without assistance. :moo:

Hi I haven't been around in awhile, but I have been loosely following. I just wanted to say, I used to work for a large cleaning service and I was sent to houses by myself. I never ever worked with anyone else, except the first 3 days of training. I did HUGE houses, too. They were all in the 2500-3500 square foot range. I guess it just depends on the cleaner and the company.

This case has really made me so sad. I don't think they have a clue what has happened to little Isa.

 

[LisaB]

Is it possible that one of the boys called 911 and when they said sister, they were referring to Isabel being the "sister"?

I've had numerous dealings with TPD and calling 911. Sometimes what you tell the dispatcher gets skewed until you talk to an actual officer. The whole picture of the story usually comes together when you talk to them. Just my experience.

If the caller was one of the boys he may have said something like "My sister is missing" and the 911 operator got it wrong and thought he said he was the sister of the girl who was missing.

 

[txanmom]

Oh, one more thing. Do we really believe that Becky and Sergio should have cleaned the house theirselves when they are going through the absolute worst time of their life? That seems awfully unfair to me. MOO No offense to anyone! I don't like cleaning on my best days...just some thoughts....

 

[Shelby2]

Wait do we know for sure this is a 3800 SF residence? I have seen 2 different sizes here.

 

[white rabbit]

ok so now we have a timeline (sorta). thank you to ransom for posting the above scanner link...

8:00 neighbor says that 'uncle' and an officer knock on her door. she later corrects herself (8:05, 8-ish, then to ng, 8:15)

8:14 911 call is placed

8:22 dispatcher relays description

8:23 female officer on-scene, possibly alone "to whomever is coming here"

8:31 female officer asks dispatcher to update description (she had obviously spoken to someone at the house as to isabel's top being blue, not pink)

8:33 male officer asks for backup to search in-laws house though it had already been checked out

8:35 male officer sets off to canvass the area (st. joesph's church)

so...by the time the officers arrived on scene:
1) uncle was there
2) someone had called/been to the grandparents' house
3) knocked on the neighbor's door

and rick moore definitively stated that LE called at 8:30. how is it possible that an officer was on-scene knocking on alicia's door before 911 and how is it possible that as officers were arriving, searching the house and speaking to family, organizing their efforts, that within 7 minutes randomly looked past the a two-story house and asked to see moore's surveillance videos?

unless both rick and alicia's clock's are slow?

 

[Shelby2]

Oh, one more thing. Do we really believe that Becky and Sergio should have cleaned the house theirselves when they are going through the absolute worst time of their life? That seems awfully unfair to me. MOO No offense to anyone! I don't like cleaning on my best days...just some thoughts....

I agree. I think the issue is that:

1. Some posters think that Isabel's parents were being dishonest in stating that there were hazardous materials used by LE that needed to be cleaned professionally.

2. Some posters think they are referring to Luminol and fingerprint dust.

3. Some think that these are not hazardous materials

HOWEVER:
1. We do not know which chemicals were used

2. Some chemicals used by the FBI are indeed hazardous

 

[txanmom]

ok so now we have a timeline (sorta). thank you to ransom for posting the above scanner link...

8:00 neighbor says that 'uncle' and an officer knock on her door. she later corrects herself (8:05, 8-ish, then to ng, 8:15)

8:14 911 call is placed

8:22 dispatcher relays description

8:23 female officer on-scene, possibly alone "to whomever is coming here"

8:31 female officer asks dispatcher to update description (she had obviously spoken to someone at the house as to isabel's top being blue, not pink)

8:33 male officer asks for backup to search in-laws house though it had already been checked out

8:35 male officer sets off to canvass the area (st. joesph's church)

so...by the time the officers arrived on scene:
1) uncle was there
2) someone had called/been to the grandparents' house
3) knocked on the neighbor's door

and rick moore definitively stated that LE called at 8:30. how is it possible that an officer was on-scene knocking on alicia's door before 911 and how is it possible that as officers were arriving, searching the house and speaking to family, organizing their efforts, that within 7 minutes randomly looked past the a two-story house and asked to see moore's surveillance videos?

unless both rick and alicia's clock's are slow?

You could also add the possible hearing of the dogs and male voices by the neighbor at 6:28am per her comment of looking at her phone. Also, 11pm last time she was seen by Sergio?

 

[txanmom]

Wait do we know for sure this is a 3800 SF residence? I have seen 2 different sizes here.

Yes, you are correct, per the tax records I think I recall that we narrowed it down to around 2500 square feet. Which is not unheard of to have only one cleaning person. Maybe that particular cleaning person has already had experience cleaning up after these types of incidents and so they sent her out. MOO, just a random thought/idea, no proof of this whatsoever.

 

[mmmagique]

Also, I was thinking if Sergio and the older boy ran out the door and Sergio possibly said something like, "Call 911" to the 10 yo, the dispatcher MAY have believed the boy was a girl, thus the confusion of being the "sister".

FR: but *if* a parent asks a child (or neighbor or friend) to call 911 instead of doing it themselves (unless they are performing cpr or physically incapable of calling) it sets off alarm bells for me.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oh, one more thing. Do we really believe that Becky and Sergio should have cleaned the house theirselves when they are going through the absolute worst time of their life? That seems awfully unfair to me. MOO No offense to anyone! I don't like cleaning on my best days...just some thoughts....

In response to your previous post, it's my understanding that many of the housekeeping services are franchises. There are probably variances in the way the local company is run, i.e. some of the agencies drive specially marked vehicles, while others compensate their employees for travel expenses in their own cars.

No, I would not expect the Celis - or anyone else, for that matter - to clean their home after LE has ransacked the place. I would feel violated and couldn't imagine doing it by myself, at least not without a lot of help. :moo:

 

[LisaB]

BBM. To avoid being the one being recorded in the 911 records. That way, if you thought you might slip up and say something LE could later catch as a mistruth, you're off the hook. Better to arrange for someone else to be the one to report it. You might even tell them what to say.

You mean like when Billie Dunn called Clint and asked him to call LE when Hailey went missing??

 

[Shelby2]

FR: but *if* a parent asks a child (or neighbor or friend) to call 911 instead of doing it themselves (unless they are performing cpr or physically incapable of calling) it sets off alarm bells for me.

IDK, it just doesn't seem that 'off' to me. My first thought would be "get the police here" and I certainly would be running outside to look for my child.

Also you have to remember what a panic they must have been in after realizing Isabel was gone.

 

[txanmom]

FR: but *if* a parent asks a child (or neighbor or friend) to call 911 instead of doing it themselves (unless they are performing cpr or physically incapable of calling) it sets off alarm bells for me.

Well, I have a story about this. My bff has a daughter who at the age of 5 wandered out of the kitchen and fell into the pool. My bff was making hamburgers in the kitchen and was putting ketchup onto the buns, when her son said "mom, where is sis?" as they both looked out into the pool and saw her floating face down. My bff ran out and jumped into the pool with her cell phone in her pocket. She grabbed her little daughter and then grabbed her phone out of her pocket which now was wet and would not work. She then ran to her house phone to call 911. She had recently switched phone companies to one of those digital cheap plans and it would NOT call 911!! She was frantic and ran down the street to my house (I was not at home as I was at the dentist with my son), her little son was with her and he sprinted to my door and beat the door down until my husband ran outside and he yelled at my husband to please call 911!! That his sister was drowned and they couldn't use their phones. So my husband was the one who made the call. Long story I know, but anyway her dd is just fine now, Thank Goodness!! but in moments of panic sometimes things crazy like that just happen. My bff didn't do anything nefarious to her daughter, it is just how it worked out.

Now, of course I am sure that is not what happened here, but I think without more info about the call, there is really no way to know/understand what exactly occurred that morning or who actually made the call. We are only getting a 3rd party account by the scanner report.