AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #13

[CinnamonGirl]

Anyone know if Michael Mastromarino from Biomedical Tissuse Service, he got caught harvesting cadaver parts and is in prison, any relation to JM, Becky's brother or cousin or uncle whoever he is.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

You ladies better hit those treadmills tomorrow or those beautiful curves will be threatened!

Now isn't THAT a sensitive sentiment, Maxipus... Oops... Paximus!:what:

 

[deelytful1]

Wow.. it really surprises me that so many people trust that LE is working to help them as opposed to just "working". They want to be productive and to advance their own careers just like the rest of us. Cops are not 'commended" for all the cases they work and the people they help.. they are "commended" for finding the "perpetrator" and "solving" the case. People are people and if a person working on a case doesn't take a "liking" to the parents of a missing child.... who has the "upper hand"? Well.... to each their own I guess. I will definitely raise my child to have a healthy respect for Law enforcement but to have a healthier respect for protecting themselves.

 

[Eileen730]

Are there any relatives named Miguel Celis or Javier Chavez?

 

[Whisperer]

In order to find Isa, the first thing they have to do if profile the perp...to see the habits/routine etc. To know what and where makes them comfortable is important. To get their full personality and spirit is a plus in determining possibilities of where the perp would hide something.

 

[deelytful1]

That's a non sequitur.

If I - or my attorney - was able to get word to every officer in the field in the entire state or county to be on the lookout for my child, I'd do it myself.

Individuals can't send out Amber Alerts.

Attorneys can't send out Amber Alerts.

Only LE investigating a potential abduction can send out Amber Alerts. If I leave a message at my attorney's office on a Friday evening and refuse to talk to LE, there will be no Amber Alert.

Some people might be OK with that. I am not. I am sitting at home, yes, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that I would want to do everything in my power to find my family.

But that's just me.

I never ever said DON'T talk to Law enforcement.. they are the first ones you want to reach out to and if it seems the case will not be solved within 24-48 hours and you find yourself being questioned over and over again.. DEFINITELY get yourself an attorney.
Sorry you were under the assumption that I thought a lawyer should be the FIRST one to call. Law enforcement will definitely be your first contact in a situation like Isabel's but after you see where the investigation is leading (whether you're innocent or guilty) you should defend yourself AND make sure LE is researching OTHER avenues besides YOU!
perhaps if LE wasn't so sure the Lunsfords were involved with Jessica's disappearance, John Couey would have been investigated a little more thoroughly?????? One can only wonder.
As I've stated previously I DO have my suspicions about the parents but still think they deserve what we as Americans "should" hold dear.. the right to having legal representation.

 

[Eileen730]

OK i found this and i do think im on to something here!

One of the suspects said she was killed because she was seeking the return of a loan from Isabel Celis.Celis, 51, of Paso Robles; her son, Miguel Celis, 29, of Lost Hills; and Javier Chavez, 24, of Paso Robles, have been charged with murder in the case

http://archive.newtimesslo.com/archive/2003-12-10/whatsnews/index.html


Then i looked up sergio Celis and found this!Sergio D Celis
Sergio D Celis 41 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis


Sergio D Celis 52 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis

 

[gitana1]

Here ya go!

Father is a perv and knew the man that was arrested!


confidential informant has told investigators that he witnessed murder suspect Patrick Dewayne Murphy assault and rape Coralrose at Murphy’s home in North Port.

The informant says he was at the home — two miles from where Coralrose’s body was found — on the night she reportedly disappeared.

The man said that three young girls and a boy were at the home and that a man at the home, Edward Chinnici, offered the children $10 to have sex with each other, according to a search warrant.

Chinnici videotaped that sex act, then the informant said he saw Murphy strike Coralrose and rape her.


http://www.heraldtribune.com/articl...murder-of-Coralrose-videotaped-informant-says

Horrible!

Fathers can be the bad guy!
Sorry if i went off topic but this little girl went issing fro her bedroom also!

Horrible!

Wow. Thank you for the information. I have been reading up on the case. So, it looks like either the dad aided the "kidnapping" of his daughter, or sold her to fellow pervs for a night of child rape that "went too far" ending in her death. Or, perhaps Murphy felt it would be okay to take the child because he knew the father was a pedophile, having likely viewed child *advertiser censored* at the bar they worked at together, and thought, "Well, her dad's already probably molesting her so, why not?"

I had never heard about the case before. But, I got sucked in and now I wish I hadn't!!

In the case of the 13-yr old girl in CA, Jessica, LE went to her school to obtain DNA from her classmates. Why can't they talk to the boys, if they need to? I can swear I have seen other cases when children were witnesses and were interviewed early on. I have read on some legal sites that LE does not need permission from parents when interviewing children as witnesses...does anyone know for sure?

Great question and I do not know the answer. I will ask my law partner (he does criminal law).

Claudicici-
I'm in Houston, too, and Keith Schuchardt still doesn't have custody of his children. He admitted to taking a Vicodin that morning and tested positive for marijuana. The grandparents have custody while he completes parenting classes, which will take a few months.

Do you remember the case of Devon Davis, the 2 year old who got out while his mom was napping, and drowned in a pond behind his house? After his drowning, CPS met with the family and they agreed upon a Child Safety Plan for their infant daughter. The parents admitted to a DV call to their home in VA, (neighbors called after hearing a loud argument, but no charges were filed) and CPS had been called to their home in VA on another occasion, but nothing inappropriate was found. The Davises agreed to the safety plan so that CPS could work with them to child-proof their home. They passed their background checks and drug tests, and spent $600 to child-proof their home, but CPS gave them no time frame for returning their daughter to them. After 5 weeks, the parents snatched their daughter from the foster home and moved back to VA. Apparently, no laws were broken because it was a voluntary agreement.

If the Celis' voluntarily agreed upon a child safety plan, is it legally binding, as well? I believe I read that the family met with CPS and agreed to this, which sounds similar to what happened with the Davis family. The no contact order is the big difference here. Is it legally binding without a court order?

No. A voluntary safety plan is not legally binding.

Well like i posted today re Coralrose Fullwood her father had child *advertiser censored* on his computer he also knew the man that raped and killed his 6 yr old daughter. His other children
were put with child services he did a yr in prison for child *advertiser censored* he got out and was sent back for 3 more yrs for having more child *advertiser censored* on his computer

soooooo this sheet does happen!

http://missingchild.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/murdered-coralroses-father/

And here's the problem. Florida, which has some of the toughest laws in the nation, gave him only a year for having child *advertiser censored* depicting the rape of small children? He violates his probation (BTW, it was for visiting a relative with a child present, not for downloading more child *advertiser censored*) and he gets only an additional 3 years? WTH!!!!!?????!!!!! I'm sorry, a person who downloads child *advertiser censored* and it is found not to be some weird mistake or someone else using your computer, all of which can be deduced by how much *advertiser censored* was downloaded and whether it was on various dates, log in information (any passwords needed?), what time the *advertiser censored* was downloaded and work schedules, etc., then that person should get at least 10 years, IMO.

If my family was missing I'd sit down with LE and talk for that very reason.

My family is my life. No sense covering my posterior on a lawyer's orders if my reason for living is in danger.

This has been my point forever. I am an attorney. If my child went missing, even knowing everything I know about false charges, pressure tactics, misinterpretations of evidence, etc., etc., no way would I be getting an attorney. As I have said in the past, as an attorney, I would counsel my clients to shut up, retain counsel and answer nothing. Because my job as a lawyer is to protect my client's rights.

But as a parent, my job is to protect my child, to live and die for her. And anyone who is worried about their own rights being violated and some possibility of a future case against them, after the worst thing ever already happened - the disappearance of their child - is either guilty as sin or never really loved their child to begin with.

The bottom line is attorneys filter the investigation when it comes to what their clients state or are subjected to. They would never authorize a LDT. I would jump to do one if my baby went missing, despite the fact that they aren't always accurate. They would never authorize unfettered questioning. They usually request that questions are given to them in written form. That's what I have done with clients of mine who are subject to CPS investigations. But I would want no filters in place as the parent of a missing baby. I would want to fully assist LE, in every way possible, to figure out what happened. Of course, if I wasn't in a hospital being sedated, I would probably be camping on their doorstep wailing for help to find my kid.

Now let me qualify all that. If, after a month or more went by with no progress, and I saw that LE was unreasonably focusing on me to the exclusion of other avenues that would help find my kid, I would hire an attorney to pressure LE to do their jobs correctly and to focus attention where it should go. Their work would likely entail focused press conferences with me, to discuss the faulty focus, PR to get out the story, my cooperation and LE's narrow investigation, etc.

But, IMO, parents who can right away think about hiring counsel, after hearing the most devastating news a parent could hear besides that their child is dead, raise an immediate red flag to me. A desperate parent is not going to be thinking about their constitutional rights. They are going to be clawing to get their child back in their arms. :moo:

 

[Eileen730]

Now if a relative of SC named isabel celis murdered this woman NR what if NR's family seeks revenge and kills the little girl with the same name of the woman that murdered their relative lol


Does that make any sense?

 

[deelytful1]

OK i found this and i do think im on to something here!

One of the suspects said she was killed because she was seeking the return of a loan from Isabel Celis.Celis, 51, of Paso Robles; her son, Miguel Celis, 29, of Lost Hills; and Javier Chavez, 24, of Paso Robles, have been charged with murder in the case

http://archive.newtimesslo.com/archive/2003-12-10/whatsnews/index.html


Then i looked up sergio Celis and found this!Sergio D Celis
Sergio D Celis 41 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis


Sergio D Celis 52 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis

Can you determine these people are actually related to Sergio Celis? Sometimes sites like Intellius will group people together due to internet articles just like this one They could also be grouped since Isabel Celis (missing) and Isabel Celis (51 Y.O.) have the same name!
Good sleuthing though!
{{Are we allowed to be sleuthing Sergio at this point? Has he been named a POI by LE??}} Not being a party pooper.. just wondering.

 

[gliving]

Did the 'thanks' button just disappear?

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Did the 'thanks' button just disappear?

Mine did.

 

[cluciano63]

I think I would be more inclined to find a respectable PI than a defense attorney, if I felt LE was tunneled-visioned in my direction. A defense attorney is not going to change LE's focus, whereas at least a PI would be working for me to actually try to discover other real possibilities, rather than throw up smokescreens as SOME lawyers tend to do in these cases. And I would keep my face on TV, telling the public that LE is barking up the wrong tree, so to please keep looking, calling in tips, thinking about your neighbors, reviewing that day in your head, etc...

 

[Eileen730]

Can you determine these people are actually related to Sergio Celis? Sometimes sites like Intellius will group people together due to internet articles just like this one They could also be grouped since Isabel Celis (missing) and Isabel Celis (51 Y.O.) have the same name!
Good sleuthing though!
{{Are we allowed to be sleuthing Sergio at this point? Has he been named a POI by LE??}} Not being a party pooper.. just wondering.

Well i wasnt sleuthing him i was just looking for a relative named Miguel!
And i found Miguel thru Sergio!
If sergio knows this ISABEL Celis thats in jail for 25 yrs for murder there might be something to relate to this case.

And if this is a revenge thing sergio is innocent and i think they seperated he and his family because they may be in danger if they are with him!


All JMO

JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Can you determine these people are actually related to Sergio Celis? Sometimes sites like Intellius will group people together due to internet articles just like this one They could also be grouped since Isabel Celis (missing) and Isabel Celis (51 Y.O.) have the same name!
Good sleuthing though!
{{Are we allowed to be sleuthing Sergio at this point? Has he been named a POI by LE??}} Not being a party pooper.. just wondering.

The mods said several weeks ago that since LE has said that the parents are POI.s too, that they are somewhat sleuthable IIRC.

 

[liz b.]

OK i found this and i do think im on to something here!

One of the suspects said she was killed because she was seeking the return of a loan from Isabel Celis.Celis, 51, of Paso Robles; her son, Miguel Celis, 29, of Lost Hills; and Javier Chavez, 24, of Paso Robles, have been charged with murder in the case

http://archive.newtimesslo.com/archive/2003-12-10/whatsnews/index.html


Then i looked up sergio Celis and found this!Sergio D Celis
Sergio D Celis 41 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis


Sergio D Celis 52 Tucson, AZ
Eva R Celis
Michael A Celis
Miguel Gumilan Celis
Rebecca L Celis
Sergio D Celis

Well now... sometimes those sites put groups of peeps together who are not really related...MOO But,this could be interesting...MOO

 

[Thirteen]

I never ever said DON'T talk to Law enforcement.. they are the first ones you want to reach out to and if it seems the case will not be solved within 24-48 hours and you find yourself being questioned over and over again.. DEFINITELY get yourself an attorney.

*snipped*


Its hard to make that point without people coming out of the woodwork with pitchforks and torches. I agree though. I would cooperate and tell my story several times and submit to polygraph. However if LE keeps coming back asking you the same or similar questions hoping for you to slip up I would then get a lawyer.

At that point LE is not your friend they are trying to arrest you. You wont do your missing child any good from the inside of a jail cell. Unfortunately LE can be wrong. Thats why we have rights. If a society does not exercise those rights they lose them. I like rights. I am scared to death of losing any of my rights.

That being said my theory from day one was that someone visiting the family unlocked Isa's window from the inside to return at a later date and kidnap her. I am guessing they did a DNA transfer test on the window latch. Whoever took her knew she was behind that window.

You guys are reading too much into the CPS action in the case. CPS did nothing in prior cases and got egg on its face. Id be proactive. However that order has to be signed by a judge so some form of evidence was presented to the judge to seclude those kids.

So until we see something I would say assumptions based on CPS is only going to lead you down the wrong road. Hope that helps.

 

[katydid23]

I think it was weirdly quoted as a sound bite, rather than weirdly worded. I think that it can be a real problem when things are taken out of context by reporters. When I watched the press conference live, where he made that statement, he explained explained that maybe a different set of eyes could see something that they are not seeing, hopefully giving them more leads.

He did not imply anything other than they would like any type of break or lead in the case, and was still stressing that they were looking at all avenues.


Presser on April 25th 8 pm

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/raw-video-8-p-m-isabel-celis-update-from-tucson-police/
Video that describes what BAU is doing

http://www.kvoa.com/videos/police-give-update-on-missing-girl-case/

I think the quote was taken from an earlier presser on the 25th, as far as I remember. KOVA was not consistent in getting the raw videos uploaded.

Thank you for this clarification. [ My THank You does not work so 'thank you.']

 

[gliving]

Yep, I did that. There's a problem with it slowing things down that I'm working on.

"thanks" :seeya:

 

[liz b.]

Well i wasnt sleuthing him i was just looking for a relative named Miguel!
And i found Miguel thru Sergio!
If sergio knows this ISABEL Celis thats in jail for 25 yrs for murder there might be something to relate to this case.

And if this is a revenge thing sergio is innocent and i think they seperated he and his family because they may be in danger if they are with him!


All JMO

JMO

But,if it is a revenge issue,and they either killed or kidnapped Isabel, might they not kill the other kids whether they are with SC or not ? I mean,wouldn't they be in danger no matter what. And why would he not be allowed to have any contact whatsoever ? It's just puzzling...MOO