AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

[Lark2]

Okay I'm going to ask again since no one answered it the last time.

When did the F&F or any -type group or cartel ever kidnap a small child from her home in the US, in the middle of the night before? There must be some prior proof that can be pointed to for this scenario to be considered plausible. And SC's alleged possible connection to a group is not proof of that ever happening.

Agree with the unliklehood of that. I think this is the result of a family member(s) actions, no matter how this goes down.

 

[SurfieTX]

Okay I'm going to ask again since no one answered it the last time.

When did the F&F or any -type group or cartel ever kidnap a small child from her home in the US, in the middle of the night before? There must be some prior proof that can be pointed to for this scenario to be considered plausible. And SC's alleged possible connection to a group is not proof of that ever happening.

Probably would have been the whole family - or at least all 3 kids and/or wife too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/w...gang-crimes-go-unpunished.html?pagewanted=all

 

[rpgman]

wow... I just listened to the 911 calls
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...ed-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

and would the real Sergio Celis please step up? At their first presser I was personally convinced that his plea was histrionic and it reminded me of "musical theatre".. but the 911 call... that sounds like the real Sergio Celis to me..

Wow..

Also makes the very first statement by LE all the more interesting.. that LE is watching the emotions/emotional reaction of the family (first presser.. thread one)

also makes sense about getting them to speak to the media

Of further interest to me is that their behavior flip flopped: Becky Celis had a very emotional call with 911 but has since become stoic with her emotions in check. Sergio on the other hand sounded like he was talking about going fishing or something on his 911 call and turned "emotional" when speaking to the press.

Very strange... very, very, very strange.

Also, if Sergio were the one to note her missing and then wakes up the boys.. why didn't he find the window/notice the window? Maybe it is just the physical layout of the room but I doubt it... If my kid is not in his bed you can bet I am going to be looking where he could have went and that would include looking out the window to see if he was outside.


:moo:

yep like he was having a casual conversion with someone.
Even mentions watching the game late at night after everyone's shower.

and, ur right, if I notice my child missing, the first thing I do, is notice whats different in the room, like the window being out, etc.

My yelling out the missing child's name would wake up anyone in the house.

 

[azwildcat]

I haven't caught up on all the posts, so I apologize in advance if this has been answered...Tucson College does exist. It's a tech/trade school.

Tucson College exists, Tucson University does not. And on the facebook page they're speaking of it's listed as "Tucson University" with University of Arizona's emblem which links to the University of Arizona's facebook page. It's quite strange.

 

[dimples37398]

If he was that involved with this fast & furious thing and suppose to testify,would he not have been in protective custody?

 

[Emeralgem]

Okay I'm going to ask again since no one answered it the last time.

When did the F&F or any -type group or cartel ever kidnap a small child from her home in the US, in the middle of the night before? There must be some prior proof that can be pointed to for this scenario to be considered plausible. And SC's alleged possible connection to a group is not proof of that ever happening.

IMHO.. I don't know but there is always a first time for everything so considering that to be a fact and since we don't know what happened to Isabel, IMHO her being taken by a cartel could very well be a possibility...JMHO

 

[spoiledmom]

A gun smuggling, drug cartel band of thugs on a mission to exact revenge by taking a 6 yr old Tucson girl (which, so far no one has shown has ever happened before) is the easier and more logical scenario to believe than what has happened in countless other missing child cases--i.e. a parent caused the death of their child in some way and tried to hide it by turning it into a kidnapping? And this scenario has gained legs because of the last name of the family, which may be the same or similar to another last name of at least one person who is known to be a member of one of these gun smuggling, drug cartels?

And the FBI, the TPD and other agencies are just standing by as this band of thugs exacts their revenge by holding a 6 yr old girl because it's part of some bigger and secret plan that involves informants or someone?

I believe it's easier to think the parents were involved. I don't understand the whole cartel thing. I thought it was crazy that they may have part in this. It usually is some sick sex abuse crime committed by someone in the home. I guess it has become a possible theory from LE since they know he has connections to the cartel. He definitely doesn't look the part to me. I have a feeling it may be why no one is staying at the family home though. It may not be safe. Maybe he owes money and someone got revenge on him and LE is worried that the boys could be next.

 

[jamiect]

Okay I'm going to ask again since no one answered it the last time.

When did the F&F or any -type group or cartel ever kidnap a small child from her home in the US, in the middle of the night before? There must be some prior proof that can be pointed to for this scenario to be considered plausible. And SC's alleged possible connection to a group is not proof of that ever happening.

FWIW, just a quick Google search brought this up.
Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

 

[Madeleine74]

Probably would have been the whole family - or at least all 3 kids and/or wife too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/18/w...gang-crimes-go-unpunished.html?pagewanted=all

Is Tucson a border town to Mexico, where the civil war between the drug lords and the government is being raged? Wouldn't the FBI at least know if this was a kidnapping that took a 6 yr old child across the border? I think they would.

Again, what drug cartel or gun smuggling group is taking little children out of their beds in the middle of the night in Arizona?

eta: from the article jamiect posted: "The majority of the victims are either illegal aliens or connected to the drug trade. Our victim's probably being brutalized, he's probably being beaten up and tortured and God knows what else is taking place"

I didn't ask about general kidnappings by Mexican drug cartels ... I'm specifically looking for prior evidence of the kidnapping of a child under the age of 10 taken from his/her home, by some cartel group in the U.S.

I mean, if this scenario is logical and plausible then there must be a specific reason for it to be considered as such. The generic "hey it happens, crazier things have happened..." isn't proof of anything.

 

[spoiledmom]

FWIW, just a quick Google search brought this up.
Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

This is true. Human trafficking is real and drug runners are making a killing by this little side job. Sadly, many of their clientele are pedophiles from the good old United States of America.

 

[Isabelle]

IMHO.. I don't know but there is always a first time for everything so considering that to be a fact and since we don't know what happened to Isabel, IMHO her being taken by a cartel could very well be a possibility...JMHO

Could be. Am also thinking about the type of job SC had. No license, no certification, an oral surgeon assistant. SC's job can't be verified, none of his co-workers have stepped forward as have RC's. He could not have possibly had the income to have a home and vehicle that he did. As an RN myself, I know that RC's income would not support that kind of life either - possible if she worked 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, then the taxes would eat most of it up.

Is it possible that the removal of SC from boys with CPS involvement, actually be removal from wife and boys because a threat has been made directly to SC? I dunno. Could really be just a simple, random kidnaping.

 

[nursebeeme]

yep like he was having a casual conversion with someone.
Even mentions watching the game late at night after everyone's shower.

and, ur right, if I notice my child missing, the first thing I do, is notice whats different in the room, like the window being out, etc.

My yelling out the missing child's name would wake up anyone in the house.

also makes his comment about the window in his interview with nbc more interesting (paraphrasing here that now he doesn't think the window was so much a point of entry

bet LE have had a chat with him (several times) about that window

:moo:


he comes across as a man who can turn his emotions on and off when he wants to so why didn't he turn them on for the 911 call? Is it perhaps because no one was "watching" the phone conversation? I further bet he never figured the calls would be released.

(this is all :moo: at this point... just my opinion)

 

[azwildcat]

FWIW, just a quick Google search brought this up.
Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

Isn't it adult kidnapping though? Not children. And the numbers were apparently overinflated.
http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local...hoenix-pd-used-inflated-kidnapping-statistics

 

[txanmom]

I believe it's easier to think the parents were involved. I don't understand the whole cartel thing. I thought it was crazy that they may have part in this. It usually is some sick sex abuse crime committed by someone in the home. I guess it has become a possible theory from LE since they know he has connections to the cartel. He definitely doesn't look the part to me. I have a feeling it may be why no one is staying at the family home though. It may not be safe. Maybe he owes money and someone got revenge on him and LE is worried that the boys could be next.

bbm - they KNOW this to be true? Do we have confirmation of this?

 

[cluciano63]

I can't help thinking LE did not HAVE to release that 911 call, especially yesterday, when everyone was all agog over Sergio anyway, and yet they did. They seem to be pointing directly to him, without saying so officially.

I can't recall a kidnapping for money in the US in many decades, nor a retribution-style kidnapping by cartels. But I can recall many instances of a parent harming their child, and some instances of a random pervert doing so. Either of these last options seem far more likely to me.

I guess we wait and see what LE does next and if their actions continue to put Sergio in the spotlight.

JMO

 

[claudicici]

Oh my god,just now listened to the dad's 911 call,I just can't believe it,I show more emotion when my sock is missing from the dryer!This is insane !!! It really makes me think he has to know where Isa is and that she is ok!!!Otherwise I could not even imagine what is going on ! He does not sound concerned AT ALL !!

 

[daisy7]

I am assuming that LE has proof. Otherwise they wouldn't be looking in that direction. Sergio is being watched an has been from the beginning. This is how they found out his connections. Not sure what else they have found out. I'm hoping they speak about it to the public soon and make their arrests. But if this is related to the cartel then it's not that simple. Sergio may know someone from the cartel well enough that what happened to Isabel was personal. Not just a cartel abducting a child. The mafia will do it to get revenge, why wouldn't a cartel?

Did LE state that they are looking at a cartel connection and I missed it? TIA!

 

[winterrose]

What is SC's court case from 4/19, it's on General Jurisdiction Courts?There's a pretrial 6/2, but you can't see the charge, it's criminal, I believe. Is there a domestic thing going on they're keeping private, or what?

 

[Madeleine74]

The mafia does not kill little kids as revenge. They go after the person themselves or they'll threaten the person that they'll take out their whole family, but kidnap a little child? When in the history of the mafioso has this ever happened?

 

[jamiect]

Is Tucson a border town to Mexico, where the civil war between the drug lords and the government is being raged? Wouldn't the FBI at least know if this was a kidnapping that took a 6 yr old child across the border? I think they would.

Again, what drug cartel or gun smuggling group is taking little children out of their beds in the middle of the night in Arizona?

eta: from the article jamiect posted: "The majority of the victims are either illegal aliens or connected to the drug trade. Our victim's probably being brutalized, he's probably being beaten up and tortured and God knows what else is taking place"

I didn't ask about general kidnappings by Mexican drug cartels ... I'm specifically looking for prior evidence of the kidnapping of a child under the age of 10 taken from his/her home, by some cartel group in the U.S.

I mean, if this scenario is logical and plausible then there must be a specific reason for it to be considered as such. The generic "hey it happens, crazier things have happened..." isn't proof of anything.

Although the article did not specifically go into details of the 370 cases, it does not mean it could not have happened. Unfortunately, the article does not break down the numbers.