AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[cluciano63]

It's funny, because this family seemed to be the least likely of any, in recent missing child/child taken in the night cases we've seen here at WS, to be involved or connected to anything criminal and yet it is being hinted that they might be more highly criminal than any of the others.

I was actually surprised to see a child missing from a traditional family unit in itself, as that is extremely rare...nearly (not all) of the cases pending with missing kids involve steps, boyfriends, etc...we have Kyron, Ayla, Aliayah, Hailey, Haleigh, just to name a few. Not saying it means anything either way, but this family presented as a truly successful, employed, somewhat upwardly mobile family, which seemed more likely to face a true random kidnapping. And yet to me it still seems as though that may not be the case. Anyway just an observation and of course, JMO.

 

[~n/t~]

What portion of those who are kidnapped are:

- Children under the age of 10, specifically females under the age of 10.
- Kidnapped by themselves, with no other family member being taken as well.
- Taken out of their house, out of their room, out of their beds, at some point between 11pm and 6:30am
- No contact is made by the kidnapper after the abduction

Just showing articles where it says cartels kidnap people doesn't say anything about the Isa case specifically. We know there are drug and gun cartels. We know "people" get kidnapped. We know certain areas of the country are at risk with the influx of cartel activity.

Where is the information about young children taken out of their beds in these U.S. cities by these cartel gangs?

I agree. Also, if this applies to Isa's case, this theory could apply to any other missing child in North America. Arizona is not the only place on this planet with drug cartels. They're everywhere. It's nothing new. They've been around since the '80's so that is why I don't understand this theory at all. Nothing has been posted that the Celis family is in any way shape or form involved with cartels.

ETA: IIRC, the Celis parents and LE denied any ransom demands.

 

[mamamia54]

As far as the Mexican cartel, there is a first time for everything. JMHO

 

[Lark2]

But there are no links to show that SC was abusing Isabel either. No link to show that there was *advertiser censored* on SC's computer. Both theories have been discussed here.

It's not like there is just one local talking about this. There are a few, who have all heard the same thing.

It's not up to you to say which theory should be 'dropped'.

No, it's up to the mods, and I thought I just read that.

 

[Shelby2]

A poster brought this up earlier-detectives went back to the house with the three family members, separately. We know they had an object covered with a towel-was that for each interview? Or just the one with SC?

 

[FrayedKnot]

But there are no links to show that SC was abusing Isabel either. No link to show that there was *advertiser censored* on SC's computer. Both theories have been discussed here.

It's not like there is just one local talking about this. There are a few, who have all heard the same thing.

It's not up to you to say which theory should be 'dropped'.

For that matter, there are no links to back up how rosy the Celis' family life is, or that SC was receiving threats which is why he volunteered to stay away from his family, and no links to support what SC and RC are really feeling deep inside. But I see an awful lot of posts proclaiming all of these things.

But so as not to get a vacay, I will keep my theories, speculations and opinions to myself.


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[Theforeigner]

I really feel like we are getting some conflicting information about the rules here at WS. From what I understand, locals are allowed to post rumors (which I think is awesome, because he could lead to the truth). However, are we supposed to just thank these locals and move on? Or can we discuss these rumors in our theories as long as we clearly state they come from local rumors?

For example, this cartel/FF rumor. IMO it is completely plausible, even if it might be a really really rare event. It started based on local rumors, so there is no MSM article we can link to in regards to this specific case, however several people have posted links to show that it HAS happened. I don't think it has to have happened in Tuscon specifically for it to be plausible. It is no secret the cartels are coming farther and farther into the US - and the whole "supposed" purpose of FF was to target people INSIDE the US.

I honestly feel those posting about this theory have done a pretty good job of connecting it to specific facts in this case in theory. For example, certain people in the family have lived in areas where smuggling may be common, the family does seem to live outside their mean (although there are many explanations for this, and there was those two FF suspects who changed their pleas after Isabel disappeared. These are all connections based in theory, not fact, but we all talk about different theories.

I personally will keep the FF/Cartel theory on my table as I do think SC has some involvement in this, but I can't see him as a pervert - so I have to consider other alternatives. And I do thank everyone who has been posting about this unpopular theory for their insights, because it is all very interesting.

The solution, IMHO, would be that we could create additional threads for the Isabel Celis case. F exs. a "Rumor thread" where fexs. the cartel issue could be discussed.
Personaly I would prefer that this main thread was only for posting new info from the police and media + discussion of that info, meaning FACTS.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I agree. Also, if this applies to Isa's case, this theory could apply to any other missing child in North America. Arizona is not the only place on this planet with drug cartels. They're everywhere. It's nothing new. They've been around since the '80's so that is why I don't understand this theory at all. Nothing has been posted that the Celis family is in any way shape or form involved with cartels.

I think her proximity to the kidnapping capital of the US makes her a more likely candidate than say, Lisa Irwin.
But I don't have a link for that. JMO


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[Dr. Know?]

There are several ways to sleuth without needing the specific case files. We have seen it several times in different cases. I have my theories, and I have researched and tried to draw connections to those theories with plain old public information online.

Me too. It works.

 

[spoiledmom]

Mexico searches=old news. No current "searches" in Mexico. Search yesterday was 3 miles down road from Celis house.

Did they say they were searching for Isabel or did they say they were looking for evidence related to Isabel's disappearance? Maybe she was taken from the spot that they were looking and not from her actual bedroom. Maybe the bedroom scene was staged...JMO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

...Looking forward to the Search Warrant being released later this month.

:seeya: Oh goodie ... thank you for this update ...

:woohoo:

 

[Whisperer]

Becky Celis said that LE concentrated their search for evidence in Isa's AND the boy' room. No one has ever discussed why that would be so. I would think an organized group such as a cartel would not find it necessary to go into the boys' room if Isa was the target. I also don't think they would chance going through the window with two large dogs barking like crazy.

Sergio said the screen was removed and left in the yard. I would think a cartel would ambush the house (like a home invasion) with masks on, brandishing guns, and take the target.. why not take one or both boys? Are these pedophile cartel people?

 

[FrayedKnot]

The solution, IMHO, would be that we could create additional threads for the Isabel Celis case. F exs. a "Rumor thread" where fexs. the cartel issue could be discussed.
Personaly I would be prefere that this main thread was only for posting new info from the police and media + discussion of that info, meaning FACTS.

As long as ALL non-vetted theories and speculations are also relegated to a rumor thread. Including posts that proclaim the Celis' innocence, since there is no MSM link to back that up.

JMO


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[CuriousGuy]

I thought all coaches had to have background checks!

I had to have one to volunteer for the boy scouts!

New to this thread....but yes Eileen, most leagues do conduct background checks on potential coaches. I coach little league and went through an FBI like screening process.

 

[Whisperer]

Now THIS, shouts out to me -

But after three weeks of searching for the missing girl, police haven’t named a suspect or sought the public’s help in finding one, and that is the most telling thing about the Celis case, said Steven Pitt, a forensic psychiatrist whom police called on during the JonBenet Ramsey homicide investigation.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...red-from-contact-with-his-other-children.html

IOW, it's an inside job!

 

[~n/t~]

But there are no links to show that SC was abusing Isabel either. No link to show that there was *advertiser censored* on SC's computer. Both theories have been discussed here.

It's not like there is just one local talking about this. There are a few, who have all heard the same thing.

It's not up to you to say which theory should be 'dropped'.

CPS doesn't get involved just for the heck of it. There is a reason why CPS got involved. A high percentage has to do with child abuse. In this case we have a missing child who was last seen by her father and reported missing by her father. I have yet to see a case where there is no contact with a parent because they're being threatened by cartels.

 

[spoiledmom]

Mexico searches=old news. No current "searches" in Mexico. Search yesterday was 3 miles down road from Celis house.

It is old news, but it hasn't been ruled out.

 

[mamamia54]

IOW, it's an inside job!

Yeppers, and I've no way to back that up with a link, but that link that was posted is enough to tell me that the public doesn't need to be asked much of anything.

 

[johnQpublic]

Hi Lisa! I know what you mean, I have tried to make that dadgum google man walk around that alley forever!! It has frustrated me to no end!

When trying to get around thru the back alley revert back to the birdeye veiw and put some tilt on it and rotate the map around as needed by grabbing the compass... I've been able to "scope out" (on google) the property pretty well even to be able to see the cable ped on the southeast corner behind the fence which IMO be a easy way over the wall if you were not using the gate.. LOL Using the cable ped used to be my way of jumping over walls in AZ as I used to have to sneak onto peoples property several times a day to retrieve cable company digital phone equipment or put traps on for non payment. I couldn't begin to tell how many yards I have had to case my way into covertly to gain access to cable company property mounted on the exterior of the home. One thing else is there have been numerous times I have gone into a customers yard and encountered a dog and 9/10 times its fairly easy to get the animal to trust you.

 

[cluciano63]

Becky Celis said that LE concentrated their search for evidence in Isa's AND the boy' room. No one has ever discussed why that would be so. I would think an organized group such as a cartel would not find it necessary to go into the boys' room. I also don't think they would chance going through the window with two large dogs barking like crazy.

Sergio said the screen was removed and left in the yard. I would think a cartel would ambush the house (like a home invasion) with masks on, brandishing guns, and take the target.. why not take one or both boys? Are these pedophile cartel people?

I brought this up in another thread...I thought it may indeed may pointed to Isabel sometimes sleeping in the room with the boys and whoever took her having known that. That is all I could think of.