AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[Shelby2]

:maddening:

CPS doesn't get involved just for the heck of it. There is a reason why CPS got involved. A high percentage has to do with child abuse. In this case we have a missing child who was last seen by her father and reported missing by her father. I have yet to see a case where there is no contact with a parent because they're being threatened by cartels.

I don't know that he was threatened by anyone. I don't know what he was or was not involved in.

 

[LisaB]

That is true I understand, I personally have access to all sorts of databases but that is just how I roll. They arent free so I understand why most people dont have that access.

I assume the reason you can not share any information you find through your subscription databases is that you can not provide a link that anyone can get to unless they also subscribe to that service? Is there a way you can take what you find through those sources and ferret out the same information in public databases. I am thinking of something like using the information that you paid for to get the names and/or dates and then research them in open databases and provide links to THOSE? I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can with the research to make this happen.

 

[txanmom]

A poster brought this up earlier-detectives went back to the house with the three family members, separately. We know they had an object covered with a towel-was that for each interview? Or just the one with SC?

Yes! That was me, I have been working on the entry point, and how this would effect a theory (family, acquaintance, random perp). I had a thought that the beach towel could have been wrapped around Isa and that the 14 yo (only child brought back to reenact) could have seen dad in the middle of the night with a beach towel. I only saw SC in the clip with the beach towel not BC. I could not find a clip with 14 yo in it. I measured my beach towels and they are 60". I know this probably sounds weird, it was just a thought. If 14 yo was kinda asleep and up to use the bathroom and saw SC with this he might have thought nothing of it and went back to sleep. But during LE questioning it might have come up and precipitated the reenactment. Shortly after this was when SC was issued the no contact order.

 

[Donjeta]

From looking at the home and having been a telecom installer in the past in AZ IMO this type of home is made in a way in which hearing exterior noise can be pretty difficult. The exterior walls are at least 12 inches thick consisting of stucco exterior over top of styrofoam wrapping thats nearly 2 inches thick and covered with chicken wire, the insulation in the walls is more than likely foam pellet or a high grade insulation. It's also not very uncommon for homes like this to have insulated interior walls as well for noise reduction and to help aid in cooling costs. Insulation helps keep the cool in the home in the summer as well as the winter, and being that close to stores and the main street it would also be ideal for keeping out the road noise. So it's very well possible they did not hear the dogs at all when they were barking.

There was an open window though.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I assume the reason you can not share any information you find through your subscription databases is that you can not provide a link that anyone can get to unless they also subscribe to that service? Is there a way you can take what you find through those sources and ferret out the same information in public databases. I am thinking of something like using the information that you paid for to get the names and/or dates and then research them in open databases and provide links to THOSE? I'd be more than happy to help in any way I can with the research to make this happen.

Correct, you cant link to it for just anyone because you have to have access to the database to get to it.

Good suggestion, I will look in to that.

 

[~n/t~]

Becky Celis said that LE concentrated their search for evidence in Isa's AND the boy' room. No one has ever discussed why that would be so. I would think an organized group such as a cartel would not find it necessary to go into the boys' room. I also don't think they would chance going through the window with two large dogs barking like crazy.

Sergio said the screen was removed and left in the yard. I would think a cartel would ambush the house (like a home invasion) with masks on, brandishing guns, and take the target.. why not take one or both boys? Are these pedophile cartel people?

Exactly. Why a little 6 year old versus two 10 & 14 year old boys?

 

[No Stone Unturned]

Okay, I'm not a mod and I am relatively new here..long time lurker, newbie poster. But, as I remember the rules, it is:

Attack the post, not the poster.


Can't we all just get along?

I've been out googling FF as I had never heard of it aside from that movie, which I have never seen. Sheltered? Yes.

There is a lot of information out there and it is easy to find. I think what is being suggested is that perhaps we go out and do some sleuthing (researching) on our own when we want to know something instead of having another poster cut and paste for our convenience. And, really, that is the best way to find out information. Read as many pages as like, look at different sources, make your own conclusions.

 

[bwilson]

Yeppers, and I've no way to back that up with a link, but that link that was posted is enough to tell me that the public doesn't need to be asked much of anything.

I agree. I have been asking from the beginning why LE hasn't been warning us Tucsonans about a possible kidnapper on the loose. There has been NO sense of "watch your kids extra close" at all. That has been helped to sway my opinion of what happened to Isabel.

 

[~n/t~]

:maddening:

I don't know that he was threatened by anyone. I don't know what he was or was not involved in.

Exactly. We don't know. What we do know is CPS is involved in a missing little girl's case where dad was the last to put her to bed and the first to find her missing.

 

[mamamia54]

Exactly. We don't know. What we do know is CPS is involved in a missing little girl's case where dad was the last to put her to bed and the first to find her missing.

AND, now not permitted to be with his sons, don't forget that HUGE piece of information.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I agree. I have been asking from the beginning why LE hasn't been warning us Tucsonans about a possible kidnapper on the loose. There has been NO sense of "watch your kids extra close" at all. That has been helped to sway my opinion of what happened to Isabel.

I think they might realize what happened might be unique to this family and not necessarily a predator but that is just a guess.

 

[CuriousGuy]

Okay, I'm not a mod and I am relatively new here..long time lurker, newbie poster. But, as I remember the rules, it is:

Attack the post, not the poster.


Can't we all just get along?

I've been out googling FF as I had never heard of it aside from that movie, which I have never seen. Sheltered? Yes.

There is a lot of information out there and it is easy to find. I think what is being suggested is that perhaps we go out and do some sleuthing (researching) on our own when we want to know something instead of having another poster cut and paste for our convenience. And, really, that is the best way to find out information. Read as many pages as like, look at different sources, make your own conclusions.

FF as in Fast and Furious? I am pretty familiar with that fiasco and have a difficult time seeing Isa's abduction being related. JMHO of course.

 

[LisaB]

We don't know what her current relationship is with Sergio. He may have just told police the day before the kids were taken away. The police said that they are now asking more direct questions and for some reason they decided to tell CPS what they discovered. BC is probably more focused on getting her daughter back and not thinking about her marriage. She is not living with him so she doesn't need to think about that right now.

IIRC, CPS sat down with the parents and explained to both why they needed to remove Sergio from the family unit and he agreed to remove himself voluntarily. IMO, whatever reason they had for splitting the family was conveyed to Becky at that time, right? If the reason he was removed from the home was that he had brought undesirable people into their lives who were believed to have snatched Isabel to settle a debt, and she was told that, how would she not know?

 

[gitana1]

Well where is the PANIC?????????????
Your heart pounding up in your throat fear when you cant find your little girl!

Damn i reember when my son was hiding in the clothing rack at Macy's and i couldnt find him OMG

I was fearful!!!!1 screaming his name i was shaking.. security as called the store locked down..... we searched then heard him giggle

He was hiding! Playing a game!

All i could do was cry and hug him tight!

I was never the same after that!

JMO

He dosent sound like hes very concerned!

I have never seen a man react the way you did when your son went missing. Never.

That being said, I have never heard an innocent father make a 911 call like Sergios. It really floored me.

OMG, I just had a chilling thought. Do we know if when police took the family back for the reenactment did they carry in the beach towel before all the family members or just with the 14yo. What if 14yo saw dad carrying something wrapped in a beach towel in the middle of the night/early am and they had him reenact what he saw? I will have to go back and watch that video.

Whoa. That IS a chilling thought. So scary.

You're right, it was a cartel. I heard it was a Little League cartel, though.

It seems that SC's team whupped a LL team made up of cartel members' kids. And not just whupped them - annihilated them and really, really embarrassed them. Some of them even cried at the end.

Yeah, I heard that the cartel kids' dads were SO mad that they made a pact then and there to make SC pay, because as a coach, he should NOT have let the team lose by more than 20. That's just unacceptable.

I feel insane. Granted, I haven't been on the thread today but are you joking or are you serious? If you are serious, what the heck is going on? :what:

 

[LisaB]

I have been trying to build up the nerve to go over there and film/photograph for anyone who would like a better look. I've been getting the bus at Broadway and Craycroft for the past few weeks. I have 5 more days of bus-riding (till school's out for TUSD), so tomorrow I will do it. I'll film the entire walk from the corner of BW/Craycroft, through the Office Max/Party City/5 Guys parking lot, and over to the house. Then, I'll upload and post it when I get home, at about 3:30 PM AZ time. Anyone have any special requests?

Actually, I take the bus straight down Craycroft, so I could film the route from TMC up to Broadway as well.

Grab me a burger at 5 Guys? No onion, please and thank you.
J/K. Filming this for us would be amazing. I think EVERYONE would appreciate it.

 

[cluciano63]

We need quick access to a "sarcasm" "emoticon"...

 

[nutkin]

Wrapping a 6 y/o in a beach towel in an attempt to conceal a body seems very far-fetched. The average height for a 6 y/o girl is 41 inches. You'd need something larger than a beach towel to conceal a body that size.

 

[Lava]

Paximus, I'm asking for specific data from your article(s) that link to the Isa case. So far there's been nothing provided that has anything to do with the Isa case.

Forwarding me a link to "Let Me Google That For You" is not answering that question and it's rude, IMHO.

It's your theory and assertion and you are posting articles which (allegedly) prove the your theory with the connection to the Isa case... and so far I'm not seeing the connection to a 6 year old girl who was taken out of her own room in her house.

People have been asking for links to prove the cartels kidnap children, not necessarily that it is related to this case, but that it is a plausible theory. I believe that was the point of Pax posting that article. I would think that if anyone wants even more information in regards to that theory, they should probably do a little research because it shouldn't be up to just Pax to dissect everything. It is a theory, anyone can run with it.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I will say again, this case may turn out to be something very simple or it may not. Right now everything is on the table and some people are just looking AT ALL POSSIBLE OPTIONS. I have NO THEORY none at all, I have no clue where to even begin to explain what happen to this child. This is not a contest to see who is right in the end or who has the best theory, it is about one thing, trying to find out what the heck happened to this little girl. Period.

 

[cluciano63]

My first reaction to the cartel theory is a doubt that this would happen so quietly...I guess I picture a gang of masked-men barging into the home and making off with Isobel, if this were the case, and that no one in the home would have any doubt as to what occurred, or why. JMO