AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Eileen730]

Why are we having so much trouble lately with missing child cases and what they were wearing? Lisa Irwin, same thing. Haleigh cummings, same thing. In both cases, LE found the clothes described when the property was searched...so WTH?

We need an EXACT description of what the child was wearing when they vanished from the home...but some parentsof victims seem to have a problem with that.

Well Lisa's mommy was having wine.
I dont think anyone was home with cummings kids when Haleigh went missing.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

Yep, he said he would never stop searching... it's a long list.

LOL
sure is!!!!

 

[stillwatersc]

Hmm...maybe Isabel had trouble sleeping, and he had to take her with him to some party or to buy some stuff, left her in the car, someone took her, but he had to lie about it to save custody and his marriage.

I've stretched my imagination to the max now.

That is an interesting theory but I still think he'd be showing some emotion on the 911 call. The 911 call is just so unnatural - I couldn't even listen to the whole thing.

 

[Whisperer]

Last night on tv, his friend said he was a dental assistant. That seems to be the right call. I wonder if he worked full time.

 

[Lava]

Re: Both of soyesterday's excellent and thoughtful posts. I no longer have children (I'm a grandmother) at home, but even I am pizzed at the type of posts that you describe. I recall this same type of judgmental attitude during a recent case of a missing/murdered child in Detroit. Posters wanted to know why the little girl was wearing a tee-shirt and not pajamas when she was put to bed. Had she had her bath before being put to bed? Why was the little girl sleeping on the floor in the dining room with other children in the home and not in her own bed? On and on and on...

I live in suburban Detroit and know what dire straits the city has been in for many years: High unemployment, homelessness, poverty, mothers who raise children with no support from the fathers, drugs, etc. Most don't own homes and are lucky to find family or friends who will give them a place to stay for a while. It's the way that it is, and I fully understand and accept the circumstances and will not pass judgment on any of these people. :moo:

I can't speak of the Detroit case, but at least in this case these are all relevant questions to determine what happened between the time the family came home and when Isabel disappeared. I really don't see any judging going on in regards to the nighttime ritual/pajamas. :twocents:

 

[Lark2]

Good morning!

I haven't caught up this morning yet, so this may be out of place, but I heard this morning on the Today Show, that although the Celis were cooperating with LE, SC answers have been inconsistent. I didn't know if this has ever been stated before in MSM? Anyone else heard this before, or this morning?

Bumping this for those who haven't seen it, from Txanmom.

Also reported on HLN.

These comments are in line with Internet rumors about SC's LDT results.

 

[stillwatersc]

I don't think it is the norm for 6 yr olds to write on the walls in a home. Toddlers, yes, but by the time they are six, I think they are over that impulse.

If it was in the closet, maybe it is from an earlier time. My little sister was a wall-writer & I remember her finding places to write where it wasn't obvious to the parents.

 

[mamamia54]

Bumping this for those who haven't seen it, from Txanmom.

Also reported on HLN.

These comments are in line with Internet rumors about SC's LDT results.

I've read the same thing, however I haven't been able to pull up a reliable source for the information, when and if I find it, I will post.

 

[txanmom]

I guess I must be odd then because I know exactly what my kids would wear at bedtime. There was a ritual...and pj's were part of it. I think this ritual happens in many famillies and when we hear the parents not able to describe what the babies/toddlers/young children were wearing when put to bed, it just seem unusual to them...and perhaps "hinky" in these type of cases.

I will go you one further and state that I believe (MOO) they would instantly recall exactly in detail what they last saw them in. When my son went missing at DisneyWorld, I knew everything down to his socks. It is strange what you recall in a panic situation. That always stuck with me how I remembered everything he had on, because before that happened I didn't think I really noticed (esp. with him since he was older).

However, if Isa was abducted alive, she surely no longer has that outfit on anyway (or her ponytails/braids).

 

[txanmom]

Wanted to add really quick, I don't hold it against the 14 yo not knowing. My son wouldn't know what his sister had on, either.

 

[stillwatersc]

I'm STILL not gettin the whole "braid hair" thing, either.

One thought, my DD has long hair & I sometimes braid at night so it won't be knotted in the morning. IMO, since Mom was going to be at work - she was leaving ISA with a hair style that dad wouldn't have to deal with the next morning. ISA could probably get up & go to the ball game without having to fix her hair. I'm sure allot of dads do the children's hair but my DH is a SAHD and he hates to mess with it.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

If the rumor is even true, it would only be significant if the writing seemed to be vaguely connected to something unpleasant. If, for example, it was rumored that she had drawn a picture of the family holding hands under a big blue sky ~ no reporter would have ever asked LE about it at a PC. Right? So I'm suspecting the rumor also contains some possibly alarming content in the message she might have written.

 

[mamamia54]

For those who weren't here late last night, I posted a question that I still have in my mind from the neighbor saying that she could hear voices outside Isa's bedroom window at 6:30am. If there was no screen in the window at that point in time, is it possible that the voices weren't coming from outside the window but instead inside, since there would have been nothing but an open hole with no screen in it? Then you have the dogs barking at the same time.

 

[TxLady2]

If my child slept in a tshirt and shorts and I was asked to describe her sleep attire, I'd say she wore a tshirt and shorts. I would not use the word "pajamas" to describe that. Similarly, some people will refer to a skirt and top as a dress. It's not. Even if the blouse and skirt are made of the same fabric, it is still skirt and top, not a dress. Semantics.

It was the brother who said pajamas. The dad said blue shorts and a pink tank top, the mom said blue shirt and shorts. A brother may describe it as pajamas or he may not know and was just guessing. I thought I heard a question mark at the end of his saying pajamas. And he guessed at the color.

Look in catalogs and at sewing patterns. If an outfit is made of the same fabric, it is often described as a 2-piece dress. I am in the process right now of sewing myself a dress with a top and a skirt. My pattern clearly says it is a 2-piece dress.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Hi all... Long time lurker, first post. I am not certain of my opinion yet. I have a few questions for sleuthers:
1. Has anyone sleuthed the similarly named people in the f & f scandal? Just want to be able to put that to bed in my own mind... Tia
2. Does anybody know of any proven case of a child's accidental death being covered up by a parent (besdes the CA bs)
oasn- I have been extremely conscious of what my kids wear to bed lately after all of this banter!
thanks for input!

 

[liz b.]

Isnt that what O.J said?

Yes...and IIRC in another stunning coincidence there was a theory that NBS was murdered because of some drug money that was owed ? Some such...stuff as that.

JMO

 

[BaxterDE42]

I don't think anyone is judging anyone's parenting abilities based on night clothes. However, for me it is important to listen to how each parent described what she was last seen in because perhaps the last thing RC saw her in wasn't the last thing SC saw her in and then that would prove to be an inconsistency. If we KNEW she went to bed in "real" pajamas we would at least know that she got ready for bed and went to bed according to the parents. But if she was last seen in basketball shorts we don't really know if she slept in those or not - so we don't really know if the parents actually SAW her go to bed.

Just wanted to add that what any person is wearing when they were last seen is used as an "identifyer" along with hair color and style, ect. This is certainly important to the investigation for several reasons. Someone may recall seeing a person wearing the clothing which would give a location and this is useful information if items are found discarded in a land fill or elsewhere.

 

[white rabbit]

For those who weren't here late last night, I posted a question that I still have in my mind from the neighbor saying that she could hear voices outside Isa's bedroom window at 6:30am. If there was no screen in the window at that point in time, is it possible that the voices weren't coming from outside the window but instead inside, since there would have been nothing but an open hole with no screen in it? Then you have the dogs barking at the same time.

i saw that...good question, and yes it's absolutely possible.

either way, IMO at 6:28am at least a few family members were awake.

 

[LisaB]

ITA...but, it seems to me that, he's ALWAYS one step ahead of everything. Like he KNEW the psychologist was questioning the closet scribble. Like he KNEW that was gonna come out...."nip it in the bud".

It's "almost" like Cindy Anthony's depo...she said she had it in writing so she could re-read it to "remember" what she said.

That's why I keep saying TOOO many DETAILS in the 911 call.
It's preserved "on tape"...there's a printed copy of it....he doesn't have to worry about tripping up....except for BC, the color and type of clothes Isa went to bed in....OR maybe adding the "braiding hair" in there.

IMO, BC probably caught holy HECK for getting THAT part wrong!! AND, the son describes what Isa had on EXACTLY the way BC did....poor kid probably caught heck, too.

I believe THAT'S why the order keeping him away....IMO....violent temper...control issues...IMO. AND, again, IMO, his temper is what got Isa taken away. IIRC, didn't someone mention something in a post about getting Isa taken away to punish BC as a possible theory???

At any rate, IMO, whatever this is, AND, I think SC is the ringleader in this, they didn't think it was gonna go so public, so quickly. Now it's SC's "save face" time, IMO....keep the lie going at all costs.

So sorry, OBE, for going off on a tangent.

The son said she was probably in pajamas, maybe pink or green. Did you hear him say something different? SC said little pink top with little blue shorts, BC said Navy blue basketball shorts and a blue Old Navy flag shirt.

 

[Knox]

If the rumor is even true, it would only be significant if the writing seemed to be vaguely connected to something unpleasant. If, for example, it was rumored that she had drawn a picture of the family holding hands under a big blue sky ~ no reporter would have ever asked LE about it at a PC. Right? So I'm suspecting the rumor also contains some possibly alarming content in the message she might have written.

That was my thought, or even a drawing of the same nature.