AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[scout35]

I can go one over writing on walls. I used to melt crayons on the radiator. My Mother loved that, let me tell you!

I also used to wear my full slip and tights to bed after wearing them all day because I thought it was fun!

 

[white rabbit]

WHY does it matter? I'm so not a confrontation person and i don't like to start stuff at all.
But i remember us all talking about this at the beginning too.
Why do these "little" things make it so we can be judged as parents.
If people knew half the things we do w our kids, i'd be in trouble according to some posters on here.
I don't get it at all.
My kids are perfectly, happy well adjusted kids.
They were shorts and t shirts to bed every night for jammies.
And yes sometimes they're the same clothes they might wear to school a different day.
The only thing i usually try not to do is make sure they aren't wearing the same clothes they wore earlier that day just cuz i think they are probably "germy" from school and stuff and i get grossed out about germs lol.
But IF it happens.....like maybe on vacation...or something....or maybe my younger one falls asleep on the couch before she's changed which isn't very often.
I swear sometimes after reading here, i feel like i must be a horrible mom.

i'm with you, soyesterday...but relax, you are not a horrible mom...lol...

i can't speak for everyone here but i think the frustration lies in the fact that the official TPD news release never listed the information of what she was last wearing. clearly the 911 calls were ambiguous as each family member had a different recollection of her clothing. but it doesn't really matter what she was wearing. i personally could give a @#$% if she was last seen in combat boots and a pink tutu. none of your kids ever slept in their halloween costume?

but it's clearly a source of "SENSITIVITY" with LE and the family as MSM themselves have NEVER said what she was wearing when she disappeared...yet becky was pretty descriptive with the old navy flag t-shirt. why wasn't that ever reported by LE or MSM? the missing flyer didn't even have it right ftlog!!! how can you search a landfill if you don't know what you're looking for? did they assume a body would be naked and void of any or all clothing? how could anyone assume that?

ugh. thud.

 

[soyesterday]

I don't think anyone is judging anyone's parenting abilities based on night clothes. However, for me it is important to listen to how each parent described what she was last seen in because perhaps the last thing RC saw her in wasn't the last thing SC saw her in and then that would prove to be an inconsistency. If we KNEW she went to bed in "real" pajamas we would at least know that she got ready for bed and went to bed according to the parents. But if she was last seen in basketball shorts we don't really know if she slept in those or not - so we don't really know if the parents actually SAW her go to bed.

I DO understand that if that's all it's about. Conflicting reports about what she was last seen wearing.
I just wanted to talk about the other stuff that bothers me cuz a lot of times, people are way too judmental about little things that parents do like what they put their kids to bed in.
Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Whisperer]

Oh my gosh......PLEASE FORGIVE ME if i'm totally off on this....i haven't caught up at all yet, but PLEASE tell me that we aren't arguing or judging about whether her clothes she wore to bed w/ actually pajammas or regular "street clothes" (shorts and shirt)
If that is the issue again....why?????
Why do have to be so judmental about what kind of clothes all these missing children were last seen in????? I can't stand it.
My kids wear shorts and a t shirt to bed all the time. That IS their pajamaas!
Does that make me a bad mother?????
I love my kids like crazy. I would do anything for them. They are perfectly safe and healthy children. Two teenagers and a younger one.
It doesn't make you a bad parent if you don't wear "regular" pajammas to bed OR if your younger kid doesn't have a shower every single day OR if you have "breakfast" for dinner sometimes.
Why do we have to judge so much?
Ok i'm off my soapbox.
If i totally missed the point of the conversation, PLEASE SERIOUSLY FORGIVE ME.
I'm so sorry. The subject just bothers me so much.
Going to catch up now.

Judging is not the issue. I had never heard of young children not getting ready for sleep w/o pjs but that just happens to be the norm where I live. I think what people are thinking is that if the young child wasn't wearing pjs in the middle of the night when they allegedly vanished, maybe the child vanished before they got ready for bed.

I had no idea that parents put babies and young people to bed in day clothes...but since I now see that they do, that leaves out any conclusion that the child may have disappeared at a different time than the parents said they did.

However, in this case, I heard the brother believed his sis was wearing pjs, so in that house, pjs may have been the norm for Isa.

 

[soyesterday]

I think some posters were comparing the stories that SC, RC, and Jr gave about their activities the night she went missing. Sergio told 911 a very detailed story about showers, braids, etc. It wouldn't be unusual for a family to "blow off" the shower that late at night, especially if they're getting up early and just getting hot and sweaty again. So, did she really shower, get her hair braided, and put on whatever to sleep in, or was Sergio lying?

I understand that. Thanks.

 

[time]

IMO, I think it is possible, and it could be possible that the "threats" could have been from CPS about taking Isa away from them or something along those lines.

If the parents had felt that there was a chance that CPS would take away their child, they may have gone to extreme measurs to prevent that from happening. And since they still had 2 other boys, they maybe could not go with her, but instead chose to protect her and have her sent to relatives or something.

I think it is entirely possible, but again, just a theory of course.

Hmm... I think this is a very good theory. I don't really know anymore, but I wondered last night as I put together the CPS visit in Dec, the dog violations in April, and the neighbor claiming they were into drugs and maybe even connected to a cartel. Maybe far fetched but could they have someone (a neighbor, relative, or acquaintance) who has been dogging them for some reason and reporting them? Perhaps this is based on some real concerns or not.

 

[Whisperer]

i'm with you, soyesterday...but relax, you are not a horrible mom...lol...

i can't speak for everyone here but i think the frustration lies in the fact that the official TPD news release never listed the information of what she was last wearing. clearly the 911 calls were ambiguous as each family member had a different recollection of her clothing. but it doesn't really matter what she was wearing. i personally could give a @#$% if she was last seen in combat boots and a pink tutu. none of your kids ever slept in their halloween costume?

but it's clearly a source of "SENSITIVITY" with LE and the family as MSM themselves have NEVER said what she was wearing when she disappeared...yet becky was pretty descriptive with the old navy flag t-shirt. why wasn't that ever reported by LE or MSM? the missing flyer didn't even have it right ftlog!!! how can you search a landfill if you don't know what you're looking for? did they assume a body would be naked and void of any or all clothing? how could anyone assume that?

ugh. thud.

More times than not, the clothing helps identify the victim when they find something. Yes, it is very important to know exactly what they were wearing when last seen...real important, imo.

 

[TxLady2]

How the heck would anyone know what the "note" even had on it? LE wouldn't even discuss the note when the reporter asked the question.

Right. Who knows if it was really a note, rather than just some scribbling on the wall like a lot of 6 yr olds do? That, and NG making a big deal about this Joe Vega not ever being in the Celis house was nothing but filler, IMO. Just something to generate speculation and have everybody disagreeing so she can bark back at them.
I know lots of people who I worked with for years, and feel like I knew them fairly well, yet I was never in their home or had them in mine. I don't visit every friend I have. Heck, I don't even visit my brothers and sisters very often. Doesn't mean I don't know them.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Re: Both of soyesterday's excellent and thoughtful posts. I no longer have children (I'm a grandmother) at home, but even I am pizzed at the type of posts that you describe. I recall this same type of judgmental attitude during a recent case of a missing/murdered child in Detroit. Posters wanted to know why the little girl was wearing a tee-shirt and not pajamas when she was put to bed. Had she had her bath before being put to bed? Why was the little girl sleeping on the floor in the dining room with other children in the home and not in her own bed? On and on and on...

I live in suburban Detroit and know what dire straits the city has been in for many years: High unemployment, homelessness, poverty, mothers who raise children with no support from the fathers, drugs, etc. Most don't own homes and are lucky to find family or friends who will give them a place to stay for a while. It's the way that it is, and I fully understand and accept the circumstances and will not pass judgment on any of these people. :moo:

 

[Whisperer]

Why are we having so much trouble lately with missing child cases and what they were wearing? Lisa Irwin, same thing. Haleigh cummings, same thing. In both cases, LE found the clothes described when the property was searched...so WTH?

We need an EXACT description of what the child was wearing when they vanished from the home...but some parentsof victims seem to have a problem with that.

 

[liz b.]

I sure wish SC would do an interview,and maybe mention all of the places he's looked for Isabel.After all, he did say he "would never stop looking " ?

JMO

 

[mamamia54]

Why are we having so much trouble lately with missing child cases and what they were wearing? Lisa Irwin, same thing. Haleigh cummings, same thing. In both cases, LE found the clothes described when the property was searched...so WTH?

We need an EXACT description of what the child was wearing when they vanished from the home...but some parentsof victims seem to have a problem with that.

I think it's because children are so different from adults. They will put on just about anything and sleep in it. I've seen some kids put on a pair of boots, hats, etc.

 

[Whisperer]

I don't think it is the norm for 6 yr olds to write on the walls in a home. Toddlers, yes, but by the time they are six, I think they are over that impulse.

 

[Eileen730]

These rumors are coming fast and furious on this case.:maddening:

I didnt even know children that age has to have a passport.

IMO

My child has had one since he was 1 yr old hes now 24

somer places you could travel with a valid drivers lic and your birth cert.
Not any more you need a passport no matter what age!

New laws!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I sure wish SC would do an interview,and maybe mention all of the places he's looked for Isabel.After all, he did say he "would never stop looking " ?

JMO

I wondered why he needed to say "never" so early in the case? What made him think that Isa would not be located sooner rather than later, and that they would not have to be searching for the child forever? :waitasec:

 

[Eileen730]

I sure wish SC would do an interview,and maybe mention all of the places he's looked for Isabel.After all, he did say he "would never stop looking " ?

JMO

Isnt that what O.J said?

 

[Eileen730]

I wondered why he needed to say "never" so early in the case? What made him think that Isa would not be located sooner rather than later, and that they would not have to be searching for the child forever? :waitasec:

The way i see it he knows exactly what happend to little ISA!

 

[Whisperer]

I guess I must be odd then because I know exactly what my kids would wear at bedtime. There was a ritual...and pj's were part of it. I think this ritual happens in many famillies and when we hear the parents not able to describe what the babies/toddlers/young children were wearing when put to bed, it just seem unusual to them...and perhaps "hinky" in these type of cases.

 

[Prof]

It's interesting in the video from NG, that the close friend of SC has never been in the Celis' home. ~2:27

It is interesting since LE made a comment on how social this family is.

The one from TMC who was a called a close family friend the first day Isa went missing, who vouched for the couple, and their stability, called SC a dental hygenist. We know this because many posts were devoted to that fact that there was no record of a license. This was not cleared up until SC did that first interview.

I am not saying any of this means anything except those who call themselves close to the players in a case may do so for a variety of reasons? IMO
Personally, I am probably not going to vouch for a family of a missing child if I have never been to their home. JMO Personally, I am not going to vouch for a person's stability if I don't know exactly what that person does for a living.

This case is difficult; most of what we have is he said/she said.

 

[Whisperer]

Isnt that what O.J said?

Yep, he said he would never stop searching... it's a long list.